Face it, geeks, US 412 is here to stay

[bugo]

I know how the anal road enthusiasts get their panties in a wad over highways like 400, 412, 425, 99, 97, 238, 73, 74, 351, 364, 69C, and many others.  You're going to just have to get over it, because these roads are here to stay.  You might as well get used to them.  I drive on US 412 every day and it's just another US route to me.  Anomalies in the system are what makes the hobby interesting.  If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.

[roadman65]

I do not think anyone is really going to kill themselves over bad numbering.  Just because some of us do not like a particular route number does not mean we have to like it either.  We do tolerate it, though, as none of us took action against it or rally or protest while taking days off of work to let FHWA know how wrong they are.

Yes I accept I-99 and I-74 despite that other numbers could have been used and in fact look forward to see their projects advance as well. 

[english si]

I once saw a proposal to not have I-41 along US41 for driver confusion reasons: it renumbered about 1000 miles of interstate. When I pointed out that renumbering creates driver confusion, and they call it the '41' in Wisconsin anyway, so far more confusion would be created, the argument shifted to how it (and the monetary cost) would be worth it so that I-41 and US41 wouldn't be in the same state and break the rules.

I believe the word I'm looking for to describe them is 'Vogon'.

[Brandon]

I once saw a proposal to not have I-41 along US41 for driver confusion reasons: it renumbered about 1000 miles of interstate. When I pointed out that renumbering creates driver confusion, and they call it the '41' in Wisconsin anyway, so far more confusion would be created, the argument shifted to how it (and the monetary cost) would be worth it so that I-41 and US41 wouldn't be in the same state and break the rules.

I believe the word I'm looking for to describe them is 'Vogon'.

Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway.  The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41.  To them, it's still "Highway 41". 

[texaskdog]

How much trouble would we get in to drive the route and take the signs down?

[Zeffy]

How much trouble would we get in to drive the route and take the signs down?

I'm going to guess you'd be charged with vandalism, and maybe even destruction of state property.

[texaskdog]

Good thing I don't live near there

[Big John]

Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway.  The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41.  To them, it's still "Highway 41". 

If they even say "highway".  Saying the number or letter(s) alone without anything else is frequently done.

[roadman65]

New Jersey is the same thing.  Interstates are called routes as so is the US, State, and County designations.  So I-287 is called by New Jersyans as "Route 287" as US 1 is "Route 1" and NJ 27 is "Route 27."

If NJDOT was to ask AASHTO to decommission I-287, lets say to NJ 287 like I-495 got demoted some time ago, and replaced the shields with the oval NJ 287 shields; no one would even notice it.

I do not think people in NY notice that I-481 and NY 481 are two different designations either and most likely there call both interstate and state route both as "Route 481."  I bet at the changeover point, many people just think it is one continuous road despite the change in designation.

[texaskdog]

  If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.

How dare you call the grid system boring!

[jakeroot]

  If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.

How dare you call the grid system boring!

He wouldn't be the first. Oh wait that was sarcasm. 

[Takumi]

US 412, et al, don't bother me, because the US route system hasn't ever been truly rigid.

[Zeffy]

New Jersey is the same thing.  Interstates are called routes as so is the US, State, and County designations.  So I-287 is called by New Jersyans as "Route 287" as US 1 is "Route 1" and NJ 27 is "Route 27."

If it has a number and a sign attached to it, and it isn't a street name sign, New Jerseyans will always refer to it as Route. Or simply the number. Sometimes I like to just say the number, since in NJ the only roads with duplicates are 6xx county routes which are county specific.

[hotdogPi]

For the OP, why are 351 and 364 out of place?

[Scott5114]

US-412 is annoying but at least it has a reason to exist. It's a good route.

US-400 is more tolerable to me (the number just means 'fourth spur of nothing', which at least isn't misleading) as a number but the route is basically useless. I wonder if it will get decommissioned when KDOT loses interest in it.

69C is idiotic because it's brand new, and the route is mostly redundant to 69E. I wouldn't be surprised if either 69C or 69E was eventually shelved for cost reasons, and the existing bit become an x02. There is no precedent for a C suffix, and stated policy is to phase out suffixed interstates, so there is quite a lot of confusion as to how this came to be approved. I imagine if 69C is fully built out, it will gradually become more accepted, much like people tolerate I-35E and W.

As for 351 and 364, I think bugo is referring to the Oklahoma state highways that were designated over the Muskogee and Creek Turnpikes, respectively. I haven't seen anyone here greet them negatively, although there is a lot of curiosity regarding what OTA is planning to do with these routes and whether more are coming for the other unnumbered turnpikes.

[Doctor Whom]

I know how the anal road enthusiasts get their panties in a wad over highways like 400, 412, 425, 99, 97, 238, 73, 74, 351, 364, 69C, and many others.  You're going to just have to get over it, because these roads are here to stay.  You might as well get used to them.  I drive on US 412 every day and it's just another US route to me.  Anomalies in the system are what makes the hobby interesting.  If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.

Fair enough.  The numbering systems will never be perfect, and the overwhelming majority of motorists don't need them to be.

Besides, we all have bigger things to worry about, things that actually affect our lives.  Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?

[hotdogPi]

Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?

I checked through your posts, and you have never mentioned it.

[Rover_0]

I've never had much of an issue concerning 2duses following a rigid grid or even occasional even-odd parity-breakers (US-96, 33 to a lesser extent, etc.). If so, US-54 and 62 wouldn't end in El Paso and US-60 would more closely follow US-160's alignment west of about Oklahoma.

While I tolerate the "400 series" routes and 163 (don't agree with their numbering), I'd at least prefer those routes have more fitting (or 2-digit) numbers like 450, 86/88, 161, 164, or something similar. They'd even be good extensions of other routes--412 would make a great 58 extension (after you figure how to connect the two). It just bugs me that they defy just about every rule in the U.S. Route book, but it's just not practical or worth it to drive thousands of miles to vandalize signs.

[getemngo]

Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?

Wikipedia says:

A team led by David N. Martin and George Woltz of Martin and Woltz Inc. of Richmond, Virginia created the slogan after winning the Virginia State Travel account in 1968. Originally, they had come up with history ads, "Virginia is for History Lovers"; beach ads, "Virginia is for Beach Lovers"; and mountain ads, "Virginia is for Mountain Lovers". This approach was eventually discarded as too limiting, and the qualifiers were dropped. "Virginia is for Lovers" was born.

[hbelkins]

The discussions concerning the routing of US 60 and US 66 have been made public and are pretty interesting.

Are there similar discussions on how the US 412 number came to exist to be found anywhere? While the number might not be changing anytime soon, seeing the process by which the number was selected might be interesting and a great topic for second-guessing.

[Takumi]

Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?

I checked through your posts, and you have never mentioned it.

I know I have.

[Scott5114]

Are there similar discussions on how the US 412 number came to exist to be found anywhere? While the number might not be changing anytime soon, seeing the process by which the number was selected might be interesting and a great topic for second-guessing.

The only thing remotely close to this that I've found was ODOT's rationale for extending it from Arkansas to Woodward:

It was felt this extension would generate additional recreational travel, and, quite possibly, stimulate economic growth.

[jakeroot]

Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?

Wikipedia says:

A team led by David N. Martin and George Woltz of Martin and Woltz Inc. of Richmond, Virginia created the slogan after winning the Virginia State Travel account in 1968. Originally, they had come up with history ads, "Virginia is for History Lovers"; beach ads, "Virginia is for Beach Lovers"; and mountain ads, "Virginia is for Mountain Lovers". This approach was eventually discarded as too limiting, and the qualifiers were dropped. "Virginia is for Lovers" was born.

Living on the west Coast, I had never heard that saying 'Virginia is for Lovers' until now. And my first thought was that Virginia was adopting same-sex marriage laws and was promoting it via a new tourist slogan. The LAST thing I expected was that you were supposed to, in a way, "fill in the blank" with wherever you geographically were. I don't want to call that a fail, just a slight oversight perhaps? Though, same-sex marriage wasn't really a thing in 1968 so I'll give them that.

[kurumi]

Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?

Wikipedia says:

A team led by David N. Martin and George Woltz of Martin and Woltz Inc. of Richmond, Virginia created the slogan after winning the Virginia State Travel account in 1968. Originally, they had come up with history ads, "Virginia is for History Lovers"; beach ads, "Virginia is for Beach Lovers"; and mountain ads, "Virginia is for Mountain Lovers". This approach was eventually discarded as too limiting, and the qualifiers were dropped. "Virginia is for Lovers" was born.

Wow, that was one year after "Loving v. Virginia".

[SSOWorld]

I once saw a proposal to not have I-41 along US41 for driver confusion reasons: it renumbered about 1000 miles of interstate. When I pointed out that renumbering creates driver confusion, and they call it the '41' in Wisconsin anyway, so far more confusion would be created, the argument shifted to how it (and the monetary cost) would be worth it so that I-41 and US41 wouldn't be in the same state and break the rules.

I believe the word I'm looking for to describe them is 'Vogon'.

Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway.  The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41.  To them, it's still "Highway 41". 

Not "Highway".

Hwy!