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Button Copy

Started by Mergingtraffic, March 14, 2021, 07:36:00 PM

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Mergingtraffic

Looking at photos on Flickr, it seems lots of button copy is gone in CA.  I-10, I-710 etc seem to ave nothing left.

Any large swaths on the freeways still around?
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/


TheStranger

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on March 14, 2021, 07:36:00 PM
Looking at photos on Flickr, it seems lots of button copy is gone in CA.  I-10, I-710 etc seem to ave nothing left.

Any large swaths on the freeways still around?
Saw quite a bit in downtown San Jose on 280.  Some being removed recently in San Bruno along 101

SM-G973U1

Chris Sampang

SkyPesos

Is this thread for CA only or are we expanding it to all states?

Max Rockatansky

A lot of it has disappeared during SB1 signage replacement projects.  Fresno has a lot of the newer variants still on the corridor of CA 168.  It seems to be the stuff that was put up in the 1960s and 1970s that is being replaced.

ClassicHasClass

Still some stuff in DTLA and occasional signage in the IE but a lot is gone. It's probably just as well, but their replacements are not in general improvements. The best surviving stuff is out in the hinterlands.

bing101

Button copy might still exist on streets leading up to the freeways but I am not so sure given that some of the button copy signs are on city jurisdiction.

SeriesE

Quote from: ClassicHasClass on March 15, 2021, 12:44:11 AM
Still some stuff in DTLA and occasional signage in the IE but a lot is gone. It's probably just as well, but their replacements are not in general improvements. The best surviving stuff is out in the hinterlands.
New signs' layout is a mixed bag but visibility at night is definitely better than button copy.

jdbx

CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


CoreySamson

I was looking around on I-8 in California in GSV the other day, and it looks like there's still quite a bit of it left from what I saw.
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Max Rockatansky

There was a bunch near Barstow on the eastern terminus of CA 58.  I-15 north to the State Line still has a bunch of newer button copy signs. 

bing101

Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I figured the last known button copy had to have been installed in either the late 1990's to early 2000's.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: bing101 on March 22, 2021, 02:17:25 PM
Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I figured the last known button copy had to have been installed in either the late 1990's to early 2000's.

All of the button copy attached to the Sierra Freeway segment of CA 168 is 1999 or later.

ClassicHasClass

Quote from: bing101 on March 21, 2021, 07:52:30 PM
Isn't parts of CA-210 the last remaining areas to have button copy due to the fact that it was one of the last locations to install button copy signs in the late 1990's-early 2000's timeframe when the transitions to the current signs retro reflective BGS was made.

Some of it, but most of it has been replaced anyway.

myosh_tino

There is still quite a bit of button copy left on CA-85, especially the segment between Stevens Creek Blvd in Cupertino and Almaden Expwy in south San Jose.

This segment of 85 uses the reddish-brown art-deco-esque box beam sign bridges which has since been removed from Caltrans' standard plans.  I suspect that because of this removal, many of these signs escaped the SB1 sign replacement project (coupled with the fact that these signs are relatively new compared to others in the S.F. Bay Area).

Most, if not all of the signs south of Almaden Expwy were replaced in recent years because Caltrans used their standard trusses for this segment of 85.

There are still a couple of old porcelain button copy signs left on the original section of 85 between US 101 and I-280 mostly around the CA-82/El Camino Real interchange, the Homestead Road exit and on the ramp from southbound 85 to I-280. Newer button copy signs are still present on the ramp from northbound 85 to I-280.  This exit was rebuilt as part of the CA-85 extension south of Stevens Creek Blvd and uses the same reddish-brown art-deco sign bridges.
Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

andy3175

#14
Quote from: myosh_tino on March 24, 2021, 04:06:10 PM
There is still quite a bit of button copy left on CA-85, especially the segment between Stevens Creek Blvd in Cupertino and Almaden Expwy in south San Jose.

This segment of 85 uses the reddish-brown art-deco-esque box beam sign bridges which has since been removed from Caltrans' standard plans.  I suspect that because of this removal, many of these signs escaped the SB1 sign replacement project (coupled with the fact that these signs are relatively new compared to others in the S.F. Bay Area).

Most, if not all of the signs south of Almaden Expwy were replaced in recent years because Caltrans used their standard trusses for this segment of 85.

There are still a couple of old porcelain button copy signs left on the original section of 85 between US 101 and I-280 mostly around the CA-82/El Camino Real interchange, the Homestead Road exit and on the ramp from southbound 85 to I-280. Newer button copy signs are still present on the ramp from northbound 85 to I-280.  This exit was rebuilt as part of the CA-85 extension south of Stevens Creek Blvd and uses the same reddish-brown art-deco sign bridges.
Agreed. When the sign replacement project came to San Diego, nearly all button copy was removed and replaced during the course of 2020. The primary exception was the box truss sign bridge (I'm sure there's a better term for them). Several of these sign bridges that date to the early 1970s remain on Interstate 805 complete with the original porcelain enamel signs. I think that's because a separate contract will come later to replace not just the sign but also the sign bridges.

Here is an example of this type of sign bridge that I believe is obsolete and is planned for complete replacement based on the signs not being replaced last year.

https://www.aaroads.com/guides/i-805-north-san-diego-ca/ ... Exit 17 for Interstate 8

https://www.aaroads.com/ca/805/thb/i-805_nb_exit_017_05.jpg
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

OCGuy81

99 in the Central Valley used to have a lot, but I haven't driven it in a long time....mostly because I'm a glutton for punishment and take the 5 on trips to and from Oregon to OC

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 25, 2021, 12:26:14 PM
99 in the Central Valley used to have a lot, but I haven't driven it in a long time....mostly because I'm a glutton for punishment and take the 5 on trips to and from Oregon to OC

Most of it is gone now since D6 was huge on signage replacement projects when they got access to SB1 funding.

M3100

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on March 14, 2021, 07:36:00 PM
Looking at photos on Flickr, it seems lots of button copy is gone in CA.   I-710

I drove part of I-710 today, north of CA 91. Here are two examples of older signs:

1. One with a CA-42 shield, maybe twenty years or so after the route was relinquished (per Wikipedia).  The interchange sequence signs do not have the CA 42 shield.


2. Approaching the interchange with I-210

ClassicHasClass

Yes, the I-210/I-605 interchange does have a lot of old glue-on button copy (not the fully formed letters). It also has an END I-605, which is nice.

bing101

Marina freeway CA-90 has button copy on the entire route.

mrsman

Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Why was that section of 24 renumbered to 242?  In my mind, having one consistent corridor from Oakland to Concord with one number would be easier than having to remember 24-680-242.  I know CA doesn't like multiplexing routes, but the multiplex here isn't that long.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mrsman on April 02, 2021, 07:48:19 AM
Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Why was that section of 24 renumbered to 242?  In my mind, having one consistent corridor from Oakland to Concord with one number would be easier than having to remember 24-680-242.  I know CA doesn't like multiplexing routes, but the multiplex here isn't that long.

24 has a planned reroute east of I-680 which was never built.  You can see it on this 1964 DOH map, it would have ended at 4 near Antioch:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCALTRANs%201964%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%26bs%3D10#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1625%2C7379%2C965%2C1581


TheStranger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 02, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: mrsman on April 02, 2021, 07:48:19 AM
Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Why was that section of 24 renumbered to 242?  In my mind, having one consistent corridor from Oakland to Concord with one number would be easier than having to remember 24-680-242.  I know CA doesn't like multiplexing routes, but the multiplex here isn't that long.

24 has a planned reroute east of I-680 which was never built.  You can see it on this 1964 DOH map, it would have ended at 4 near Antioch:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCALTRANs%201964%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%26bs%3D10#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1625%2C7379%2C965%2C1581



To add on to that:

242 was essentially a paper designation from 1964-1990 or so (similar to 164 along 19 in Pasadena, or 51 for Business 80 in Sacramento), with 24 concurrent with 680 (some evidence of this concurrency can be seen in BGS greenout near the 680/24 junction) and then running up 242 to 4.

I suspect part of the reason for the truncation of 24 back to Walnut Creek is for ease of identifying the two separate freeways in traffic reports, with 242 being considered a short north-south connector.

Chris Sampang

jdbx

Quote from: TheStranger on April 02, 2021, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 02, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: mrsman on April 02, 2021, 07:48:19 AM
Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Why was that section of 24 renumbered to 242?  In my mind, having one consistent corridor from Oakland to Concord with one number would be easier than having to remember 24-680-242.  I know CA doesn't like multiplexing routes, but the multiplex here isn't that long.

24 has a planned reroute east of I-680 which was never built.  You can see it on this 1964 DOH map, it would have ended at 4 near Antioch:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCALTRANs%201964%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%26bs%3D10#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1625%2C7379%2C965%2C1581



To add on to that:

242 was essentially a paper designation from 1964-1990 or so (similar to 164 along 19 in Pasadena, or 51 for Business 80 in Sacramento), with 24 concurrent with 680 (some evidence of this concurrency can be seen in BGS greenout near the 680/24 junction) and then running up 242 to 4.

I suspect part of the reason for the truncation of 24 back to Walnut Creek is for ease of identifying the two separate freeways in traffic reports, with 242 being considered a short north-south connector.



There is still a surviving sign from the multiplex days in Pleasant Hill on Contra Costa Blvd near Boyd Road that never got the greenout treatment:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9440155,-122.0606065,3a,75y,206.68h,92.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWbhyk8XPnatfKwdp90QvtA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Several signs in the area also sport the greenout, all of which are at least 30-35 years old:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9332831,-122.0569202,3a,75y,267.43h,83.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWajdsGnkQftuHRsKiulZVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9262908,-122.0612698,3a,75y,102.15h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s22knwtyChih3CLlAL3SEiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


TheStranger

Another important bit in the route chronology in Concord:

The existing 242 right of way was built in the 1950s as Route 24, the maps of that era show it under construction ca. 1953-1955.  This was part of the much longer 24 routing from near Reno to Berkeley from the 1930s.

24 itself fit in with the original 1934 grid near Route 32 and 36, in the portion that has since become Route 70 (and for a time was Alternate US 40).

Past Concord, 24 ran concurrent with 4, then went up 160 to Sacramento, former 16 to Woodland, 113 to Tudor, 99 to Yuba City, 20 across the Feather River, and then finally 70 (including a now submerged routing near Oroville Dam).  After El Centro Boulevard was constructed in the 1950s, 24 in Sacramento instead followed 99 (later the I-5 corridor) and 70 to US 99E in Olivehurst near Marysville., before continuing north and then east along today's 70.

Most cogent to this thread: Essentially the Walnut Creek-Concord corridor was some form of concurrency (24/21, then 24/680) from about the late 1930s to 1990.
Chris Sampang



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