So it seems that Del-dot will finally be tackling I-95 Thru the city of Wilmington. https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2018/10/09/5-things-you-need-know-massive-95-project-through-wilmington/1577581002/ (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2018/10/09/5-things-you-need-know-massive-95-project-through-wilmington/1577581002/)
In a previous article it stated that it would have took 5 years to do the construction in parts but, they decided to do it all at once and it will take 2 years. Last time I checked I thought doing projects in smaller sizes was actually quicker then doing it all at once, Does this mean The city will finally see 3 constant lanes up to the 202 exit?(and vice versa) I-95 is supposed to be 12 lanes 6 in each way anyway. (From reading old Newspapers from the 70's and 80's).
P.S. I made this topic because I figure it's gonna be talked about alot in the next coming years.
^ It's already being talked about in this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22471.0).
Quote from: froggie on October 09, 2018, 03:12:19 PM
^ It's already being talked about in this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22471.0).
True, but that's only because that I-95
Maryland thread went off into a tangent with the upcoming Wilmington project.
Honestly - this project has been given way too much press considering it's not going to begin for about 2.5 years. Anything written about it today will be long forgotten by the time the project actually starts.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 09, 2018, 03:47:23 PM
Honestly - this project has been given way too much press considering it's not going to begin for about 2.5 years. Anything written about it today will be long forgotten by the time the project actually starts.
We need to convince Deldot to make Better plans!
I don't trust DelDOT to build I-95 to its true capacity need. They want to keep encouraging traffic on I-495. The only exception I can see is if they feel they need to use I-95 for spare capacity to completely rebuild the trouble I-495 bridge by closing half at a time. Then you build out I-95, squeeze in 3 lanes each way during 495 construction, then return to 2 lanes with shoulders.
Considering what's being done to I-95, which is more of an extensive repair than a rebuild, I don't foresee the highway being expanded upon until its next true rebuild decades from now. And even then, if through traffic is being routed to I-495, wouldn't it make sense for the highways to swap places? For I-95 to be the through route on the bypass rather than through the center of a city?
Quote from: seicer on October 09, 2018, 09:15:58 PM
Considering what's being done to I-95, which is more of an extensive repair than a rebuild, I don't foresee the highway being expanded upon until its next true rebuild decades from now. And even then, if through traffic is being routed to I-495, wouldn't it make sense for the highways to swap places? For I-95 to be the through route on the bypass rather than through the center of a city?
Does the incident rate (per mile) differ significantly for I-95 and I-495 -- considering most commercial traffic uses the latter facility? The last time I was on I-95 through Wilmington (early 2000's) it seemed pretty archaic for a portion of an arterial Interstate (bypass or not!); I would imagine that any revamping would be more for the sake of safety than capacity.
Probably. Looking at the DelDOT site and historic aerials, it looks like portions of the highway were being significantly reworked as early as 1980? I can't see too much being done capacity wise that would not directly impact more of the neighborhood unless the earthen berms were removed in the depressed stretch.
Quote from: seicer on October 09, 2018, 11:12:52 PM
Probably. Looking at the DelDOT site and historic aerials, it looks like portions of the highway were being significantly reworked as early as 1980? I can't see too much being done capacity wise that would not directly impact more of the neighborhood unless the earthen berms were removed in the depressed stretch.
I believe I-95 and I-495 were repaved in the 80's because of the pavement was suffering from concrete cancer.
Quote from: Tonytone on October 09, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
I believe I-95 and I-495 were repaved in the 80's because of the pavement was suffering from concrete cancer.
Not sure about I-95, but I-495 which was opened in 1977 had early major deterioration and spalling of concrete pavement, and they completely replaced it around the late 1980s.
"Concrete cancer is caused when the steel reinforcing within a concrete slab begins to rust. As the steel rusts it expands, displacing the concrete around it, causing it to become brittle and crack thus accelerating the process."
http://www.remedial.com.au/structural-repairs/concrete-cancer
It would need to crack enough to allow water to seep in an cause rust. Very bad situation...
Quote from: Beltway on October 10, 2018, 06:21:23 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 09, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
I believe I-95 and I-495 were repaved in the 80's because of the pavement was suffering from concrete cancer.
Not sure about I-95, but I-495 which was opened in 1977 had early major deterioration and spalling of concrete pavement, and they completely replaced it around the late 1980s.
"Concrete cancer is caused when the steel reinforcing within a concrete slab begins to rust. As the steel rusts it expands, displacing the concrete around it, causing it to become brittle and crack thus accelerating the process."
http://www.remedial.com.au/structural-repairs/concrete-cancer
It would need to crack enough to allow water to seep in an cause rust. Very bad situation...
Because Delaware seemingly can't learn from its mistakes, the same thing happened on DE 1 north of the C&D canal a number of years later.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 10, 2018, 08:22:50 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 10, 2018, 06:21:23 AM
Not sure about I-95, but I-495 which was opened in 1977 had early major deterioration and spalling of concrete pavement, and they completely replaced it around the late 1980s.
Because Delaware seemingly can't learn from its mistakes, the same thing happened on DE 1 north of the C&D canal a number of years later.
Was there ever an official detailed report released on what happened on I-495? I guess we know by default that the deterioration must have been pretty severe if they replaced the pavement after 10-12 years.
Well, the concrete on I-95 was about a decade older (circa 1965) and repaved after 15 or so years (circa 1981) when the roadway was widened and the viaduct modified for new ramps.
While driving on I-95 south thru chester last night. It seems that the City of Chester has money in the transportation budget. Because they are repaving the road. Starting with the left lane around 322 W exit. Will we finally see remodeling on the corridor. Penndot also repaved the 2nd land upon passing PHL. I don't know why. That part was fine from what I remember unless trucks caused sinking & potholes I forgot about.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM
While driving on I-95 south thru chester last night. It seems that the City of Chester has money in the transportation budget. Because they are repaving the road. Starting with the left lane around 322 W exit. Will we finally see remodeling on the corridor. Penndot also repaved the 2nd land upon passing PHL. I don't know why. That part was fine from what I remember unless trucks caused sinking & potholes I forgot about.
iPhone
If I-95 is being repaved where it passes through Chester, Chester won't be paying for it, PennDOT will be. That will be funded directly by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM
While driving on I-95 south thru chester last night. It seems that the City of Chester has money in the transportation budget. Because they are repaving the road. Starting with the left lane around 322 W exit. Will we finally see remodeling on the corridor. Penndot also repaved the 2nd land upon passing PHL. I don't know why. That part was fine from what I remember unless trucks caused sinking & potholes I forgot about.
iPhone
The city of Chester has nothing to do with 95. That's PennDOT spending the money to do the paving.
Looking at the TIP that projects funding for projects out 12 years: On 95 itself, there is a near-term project to rehab and repaint the bridge decks in Chester, a project to repair the another bridge closer to the PA/DE State line, and a project scheduled for 2027 to add noise barriers thru Chester. But nothing along the lines of widening 95. Even the long-awaited reconstruction of the 322 East/95 North interchange isn't scheduled until 2027-2030!
So, don't read anything into the repaving project. It's nothing more than routine repaving.
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM
Forgive me but what does a repaving project along I-95 in southeastern PA have to do with this
Wilmington, DE thread topic project?
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 11, 2018, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM
Forgive me but what does a repaving project along I-95 in southeastern PA have to do with this Wilmington, DE thread topic project?
The fact that this is my post & I talk about 95 alot so I believe i can mention a paving in southeastern pa that shoulda been done years ago.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 11, 2018, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM
Forgive me but what does a repaving project along I-95 in southeastern PA have to do with this Wilmington, DE thread topic project?
The fact that this is my post & I talk about 95 alot so I believe I can mention a paving in southeastern pa that shoulda been done years ago.
Fine, but based on the thread topic title (which
you started); most would assume that the discussion would be
specific to I-95 in Downtown Wilmington... not I-95 anywhere/in general.
IMHO, if you wanted this thread to cover I-95 in multiple states/areas (such would be a tall order & would get out of control very quickly); then you should've titled it as such.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 11, 2018, 12:16:33 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 11, 2018, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM
Forgive me but what does a repaving project along I-95 in southeastern PA have to do with this Wilmington, DE thread topic project?
The fact that this is my post & I talk about 95 alot so I believe I can mention a paving in southeastern pa that shoulda been done years ago.
Fine, but based on the thread topic title (which you started); most would assume that the discussion would be specific to I-95 in Downtown Wilmington... not I-95 anywhere/in general.
IMHO, if you wanted this thread to cover I-95 in multiple states/areas (such would be a tall order & would get out of control very quickly); then you should've titled it as such.
That is true P. I didnt want to come off as an ass. But people that drive thru I-95 Delaware most likely pass thru the tristate area & chester. So this post applies to all of the above.
iPhone
Tony, please do not introduce off topic conversation in this thread. Just because you started it doesn't make it "yours". Thank you.
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PM
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
What 95 are you talking about? The left shoulder is barely 3 feet wide as it goes thru downtown Wilmington...I'm surprised they managed to get the rumble strip in there.
https://goo.gl/maps/JKWBtSJHysT2 . For some reason GSV labels this solely as US 202, but this is I-95 North just past the MLK exit.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2018, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PM
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
What 95 are you talking about? The left shoulder is barely 3 feet wide as it goes thru downtown Wilmington...I'm surprised they managed to get the rumble strip in there.
https://goo.gl/maps/JKWBtSJHysT2 . For some reason GSV labels this solely as US 202, but this is I-95 North just past the MLK exit.
Right where exit 7 merges. The left lane is definitely travel size. Everything before that needs to be widened.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PMI-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202?
Since you asked; US/DE 202 is Exit
8 off I-95. Exit 9 is DE 3/Marsh Rd.
Quote from: Tonytone on October 13, 2018, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2018, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PM
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
What 95 are you talking about? The left shoulder is barely 3 feet wide as it goes thru downtown Wilmington...I'm surprised they managed to get the rumble strip in there.
https://goo.gl/maps/JKWBtSJHysT2 . For some reason GSV labels this solely as US 202, but this is I-95 North just past the MLK exit.
Right where exit 7 merges. The left lane is definitely travel size. Everything before that needs to be widened.
iPhone
That left lane is only wide for about 1/2 mile. Significant bridge widening and road work would need to be done before and after that.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 15, 2018, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 13, 2018, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2018, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PM
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
What 95 are you talking about? The left shoulder is barely 3 feet wide as it goes thru downtown Wilmington...I'm surprised they managed to get the rumble strip in there.
https://goo.gl/maps/JKWBtSJHysT2 . For some reason GSV labels this solely as US 202, but this is I-95 North just past the MLK exit.
Right where exit 7 merges. The left lane is definitely travel size. Everything before that needs to be widened.
iPhone
That left lane is only wide for about 1/2 mile. Significant bridge widening and road work would need to be done before and after that.
Because they use a lane just for the exit coming on to the bridge. Shift the lanes & open up that left side. People always come flying off that exit right at the bridge anyway.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 15, 2018, 10:04:15 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 15, 2018, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 13, 2018, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2018, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PM
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
What 95 are you talking about? The left shoulder is barely 3 feet wide as it goes thru downtown Wilmington...I'm surprised they managed to get the rumble strip in there.
https://goo.gl/maps/JKWBtSJHysT2 . For some reason GSV labels this solely as US 202, but this is I-95 North just past the MLK exit.
Right where exit 7 merges. The left lane is definitely travel size. Everything before that needs to be widened.
iPhone
That left lane is only wide for about 1/2 mile. Significant bridge widening and road work would need to be done before and after that.
Because they use a lane just for the exit coming on to the bridge. Shift the lanes & open up that left side. People always come flying off that exit right at the bridge anyway.
iPhone
Which exit are you talking about? I think you mean on-ramps. And the left lane...which is the thru lane on 95, would need to then end because of the overpasses. That is generally horrible traffic engineering and prone to congestion.
An example of that was 95 South approaching Exit 5's DE 141, where 95 ultimately only had 1 thru lane. That condition lasted way too long.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 15, 2018, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 15, 2018, 10:04:15 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 15, 2018, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 13, 2018, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2018, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 12, 2018, 10:51:03 PM
I-95 Wilmington only needs widening from Exit 6. To Exit 9 202? Is that the right exit number? & the left "Shoulder" On 95 is already wide enough for 3 lanes & a decent right shoulder. 2 lanes is just not possible is cities anymore.
iPhone
What 95 are you talking about? The left shoulder is barely 3 feet wide as it goes thru downtown Wilmington...I'm surprised they managed to get the rumble strip in there.
https://goo.gl/maps/JKWBtSJHysT2 . For some reason GSV labels this solely as US 202, but this is I-95 North just past the MLK exit.
Right where exit 7 merges. The left lane is definitely travel size. Everything before that needs to be widened.
iPhone
That left lane is only wide for about 1/2 mile. Significant bridge widening and road work would need to be done before and after that.
Because they use a lane just for the exit coming on to the bridge. Shift the lanes & open up that left side. People always come flying off that exit right at the bridge anyway.
iPhone
Which exit are you talking about? I think you mean on-ramps. And the left lane...which is the thru lane on 95, would need to then end because of the overpasses. That is generally horrible traffic engineering and prone to congestion.
An example of that was 95 South approaching Exit 5's DE 141, where 95 ultimately only had 1 thru lane. That condition lasted way too long.
The Adam street on ramp. Does it really need its own lane ? The bridge is 3 lanes thats enough. & are you speaking of the 2 lanes of Newport/newcastle with the flyover ramp from 495 or where traffic related merges by the salt house of the new castle to I-95 exit?
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 15, 2018, 10:21:22 AM
The Adam street on ramp. Does it really need its own lane ? The bridge is 3 lanes thats enough. & are you speaking of the 2 lanes of Newport/newcastle with the flyover ramp from 495 or where traffic related merges by the salt house of the new castle to I-95 exit?
If you're talking about the NB ramp from N Adams Street, it desperately needs its own lane. It is a "merge or die" situation and I have seen many accidents there. The ramp from S Adams should be an acceleration lane (there's plenty of length) and the N Adams on-ramp should be the third lane on the bridge. DelDOT claims there is nothing they can do, but they could do that easily
First off. Why did Deldot build 95 with only two lanes thru the City when it has three lanes up to Exit 6? & then build a three lane Brandywine bridge? Did the plans get changed or did they goof up & thats the reason why there's a lane sized left lane on both sides past exit 7.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:12:42 AM
First off. Why did Deldot build 95 with only two lanes thru the City when it has three lanes up to Exit 6? & then build a three lane Brandywine bridge? Did the plans get changed or did they goof up & thats the reason why there’s a lane sized left lane on both sides past exit 7.
The Delaware Turnpike was originally built with 4 lanes (2 each way).
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:12:42 AM
First off. Why did Deldot build 95 with only two lanes thru the City when it has three lanes up to Exit 6? & then build a three lane Brandywine bridge? Did the plans get changed or did they goof up & thats the reason why there’s a lane sized left lane on both sides past exit 7.
The Delaware Turnpike was originally built with 4 lanes (2 each way).
So they rebuilt the mainline 95 in the 80's. But what stopped them in the Viaduct? It looks like it has enough space. Does Creating a new lane of road really effect the area around it?
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:26:37 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 12:24:00 AM
The Delaware Turnpike was originally built with 4 lanes (2 each way).
So they rebuilt the mainline 95 in the 80's. But what stopped them in the Viaduct? It looks like it has enough space. Does Creating a new lane of road really effect the area around it?
Not sure the exact years of the widenings, but when I first drove it in 1972 the Turnpike had been widened to 6 lanes (3 each way). It was widened to 8 lanes (4 each way) in the 1980s, except for the westernmost mile.
I-495 opened in 1977 and that provided enough total capacity that they could leave I-95 in the downtown at 4 lanes.
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:26:37 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:12:42 AM
First off. Why did Deldot build 95 with only two lanes thru the City when it has three lanes up to Exit 6? & then build a three lane Brandywine bridge? Did the plans get changed or did they goof up & thats the reason why there’s a lane sized left lane on both sides past exit 7.
The Delaware Turnpike was originally built with 4 lanes (2 each way).
So they rebuilt the mainline 95 in the 80's. But what stopped them in the Viaduct? It looks like it has enough space. Does Creating a new lane of road really effect the area around it?
iPhone
When you look at the northern end of the viaduct the right bridge barrier flares out so there's evidence that there was go in to be something else. I forget what that was going to be though.
And a lot can change when an additional lane is added. You still need shoulders and accel/decal lanes. Additional drainage. Additional places for that drainage to go, etc.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 16, 2018, 07:12:29 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:26:37 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 16, 2018, 12:12:42 AM
First off. Why did Deldot build 95 with only two lanes thru the City when it has three lanes up to Exit 6? & then build a three lane Brandywine bridge? Did the plans get changed or did they goof up & thats the reason why there’s a lane sized left lane on both sides past exit 7.
The Delaware Turnpike was originally built with 4 lanes (2 each way).
So they rebuilt the mainline 95 in the 80's. But what stopped them in the Viaduct? It looks like it has enough space. Does Creating a new lane of road really effect the area around it?
iPhone
When you look at the northern end of the viaduct the right bridge barrier flares out so there's evidence that there was go in to be something else. I forget what that was going to be though.
And a lot can change when an additional lane is added. You still need shoulders and accel/decal lanes. Additional drainage. Additional places for that drainage to go, etc.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181016/2f6cc3fb072c53fbf1f9c9640b219b1f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181016/d9dafe01d21d9ab3977a10655ed2702b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181016/9f78a951c7966b27b046f75c6b4fd50c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181016/5857ff86983d94ab6b3c963037b0854a.jpg)
This is the Southbound 95 side as most of you know. But it just boggles my mind to why they have the extra pavement for almost the whole viaduct & they didn't use it. Even if this was a zipper lane it might reduce rush-hour traffic in this area.
iPhone
^ First, you're aware the pictures you posted are not actually the viaduct, right?
Second, for an urban section such as this, inside shoulder standards are 10 feet. You don't have enough room there to fit another lane in and still have a 10 foot shoulder.
Lastly, even if you were to stripe that as another lane, you'd be creating another bottleneck where you'd have to taper it down at the start of the viaduct at 4th St.
Yeah, you're going to have to be clear what you're talking about. The viaduct is the straight stretch of I95 between 495 and Exit 6, MLK Blvd. The Brandywine Bridge is between Exits 7 (Rt. 52) and Exit 8 (Rt. 202). The stretch you're concerned with is a very short stretch of highway where they can't just restripe it as another lane as there would be merging issues. A zipper barrier won't resolve anything.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 16, 2018, 03:18:56 PM
Yeah, you're going to have to be clear what you're talking about. The viaduct is the straight stretch of I95 between 495 and Exit 6, MLK Blvd. The Brandywine Bridge is between Exits 7 (Rt. 52) and Exit 8 (Rt. 202). The stretch you're concerned with is a very short stretch of highway where they can't just restripe it as another lane as there would be merging issues. A zipper barrier won't resolve anything.
Ok, sorry im working & typing at the same time so im not getting everything together correctly. I know realize that a viaduct is a part of highway that is elevated, OK! & when I said Zipper J&N. Im speaking of a zipper Lane. As in a quick lane to merge. Such as "476's truck lane" . What is that area of highway called when it goes thru a downtown section.
iPhone
A highway.
But even still, there is no room to expand the highway without essentially rebuilding the entire roadway, which isn't happening here. This project is to extend the lifespan of the current viaduct and infrastructure for another 30 years.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 16, 2018, 07:12:29 AM
When you look at the northern end of the viaduct the right bridge barrier flares out so there's evidence that there was go in to be something else. I forget what that was going to be though.
It
was the exit for Delaware Avenue. They tore that out and slid it down to it's current location when they built the MLKJ Blvd Ramps I believe.
Quote from: Alex4897 on October 17, 2018, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 16, 2018, 07:12:29 AM
When you look at the northern end of the viaduct the right bridge barrier flares out so there's evidence that there was go in to be something else. I forget what that was going to be though.
It was the exit for Delaware Avenue. They tore that out and slid it down to it's current location when they built the MLKJ Blvd Ramps I believe.
While driving I noticed that the only way to make it 3 lanes thru the urban area is to cut off the MLK Southbound on ramp. They can connect the bridges. But it will be very dark under 95 in the day & night.
iPhone
History of I-95 Projects
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2018/10/12/interstate-95-delaware-timeline-history-future-construction/1613425002/ (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2018/10/12/interstate-95-delaware-timeline-history-future-construction/1613425002/)
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 18, 2018, 01:21:11 AM
History of I-95 Projects
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2018/10/12/interstate-95-delaware-timeline-history-future-construction/1613425002/ (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2018/10/12/interstate-95-delaware-timeline-history-future-construction/1613425002/)
iPhone
Something is better than nothing. But I couldn't help notice that the last widening mentioned of the Delaware Turnpike was to 6 lanes in 1968-69. Nothing about it being 4 lanes thru Delaware? Nothing about the 5th lane between 141 & 1? And the very first thing only talks about how much was collected in tolls the first day.
The history of 95 is more like a random sampling of events. Glad you posted it though because it does provide some dates of events, such as the removal of the ramp tolls. It would've been nice for the News Journal to provide the full articles, or do a little more research. But like most newspapers today, they're not really keen on spending time or money to provide a good historic report of anything.
If you wanted granular information, you can do the research in a newspaper archive (newspapers.com, for instance). A newspaper article does not need to expel every minute piece of information because these articles often times run in print where space is a commodity. And a newspaper is not necessarily a ledger of historical timelines but of more generalized information or of information that can be digested. It's why we have other mediums.
Quote from: seicer on October 18, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
If you wanted granular information, you can do the research in a newspaper archive (newspapers.com, for instance). A newspaper article does not need to expel every minute piece of information because these articles often times run in print where space is a commodity. And a newspaper is not necessarily a ledger of historical timelines but of more generalized information or of information that can be digested. It's why we have other mediums.
It wasn't an article. It was a photo timeline on their online edition.
And a newspaper, historically speaking, has absolutely been used for historic research purposes. To think otherwise shows how badly newspapers have lost one of their purposes of significance.
Thanks for the clarification - I can't see it on mobile (AARoads on mobile isn't the greatest experience). And while I agree on your last two points - and newspapers is something I rely on daily for my research needs, it's not the only source. Often times, I am having to use multiple articles or multiple source types to get a broad view of a location or site because of inaccuracies of the information presented or the political leanings of an editor in a newspaper. I would say that on the whole, newspapers tend to be notoriously unreliable for accurate information because of time and space considerations. Unless you are working on one of those Pulitzer articles, it's just not going to get the attention or fact checking it deserves. (And many newspapers long ago ditched their fact checker positions.)
Quote from: seicer on October 18, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
Unless you are working on one of those Pulitzer articles, it's just not going to get the attention or fact checking it deserves. (And many newspapers long ago ditched their fact checker positions.)
That is the absolute truth. Everyone's goal appears to be get a story out first, and to hell with anything being correct. Corrections can be done later, after incorrect names and info have been published. I've long believed many stories are written on an iPhone while the reporter is sitting in bed.
And every story must be accompanied by a picture. If it's an accident on 95 in Wilmington, a picture of a cop car, traffic driving along a random area of highway, or a Google Maps shot suffices.
If you want to see a story in action: I often go to public meetings about road projects. Maybe they'll be announced in the paper in advance, or talked about afterwards, but rarely both (at least in my area). It doesn't matter what the viewpoint of the audience is, the article will be negative towards the project. If there's 1,000 people in attendance, 999 people have the same view and 1 has an opposing view to the project, that 1 will be interviewed and their statement printed. Anyone who wasn't in attendance will thing that most people had that opposing view, when in fact is was just the opposite.
One memorable instance of reporters just printing whatever they feel like was when a nearby street had a few 4 way stops added. There's very little traffic on the street, but obviously those living on the street wanted traffic to slow down more. There happened to be an article after the signs went up, and one neighbor said how much safer she felt to cross the street. I live near this street. I'm on this street almost daily. And I walk along the street as well. I'm thinking...I've never seen much traffic on the street, and if someone was crossing the street, my one car wasn't going to make a difference, nor have I ever had to wait for more than a car or two. How these reporters manage to find these people is mind-boggling.
And with newspaper and traditional media cutting back, a lot of these journalist college students wind up trying to find any work at all. Remember recently when everyone was upset that a teenager caught trick-or-treating could be sentenced to 6 months in jail? Turns out that was some very old law in some very old city that an inspiring journalist happen to see. He wrote up an article on it, submitted it to a click-bait website, and it managed to get wings. That's how much of today's reporting gets done - find shit that isn't really applicable or sounds way worse than what it is, hope it gets noticed, and watch the innocent mayors and other public officials try to figure out what's going on, and try to insist that no 14 year old will be seeing a half-year of jail for wearing a costume.
What I really hate is when local newspapers get sucked into some larger conglomerate. The Cincinnati Enquirer went down the route and many good friends ended up getting laid off or fired when they couldn't reach the virality or eyeballs set by some far-flung executive. Like USA Today or Tronc.
A good example is my local paper, part of USA Today, that has to have a photo or video in -every- article, whether it is relevant or not: https://www.ithacajournal.com/story/news/local/2018/10/12/bicyclist-who-died-identified-74-year-old-lansing-resident/1612721002/
Bicyclist killed? Let's put up a video about Taughannock Falls for more clicks and 3-second views on that video. Article about the Cuomo signs? Let's put up a non-related video about a politician scandal. Etc.
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/13/95-neighbors-wilmington-want-roof-over-highway/1987141002/ (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/13/95-neighbors-wilmington-want-roof-over-highway/1987141002/)
Seems residents are having the same thoughts that we were just talking about, not to long ago.
iPhone
https://deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicProjectPortalDocument&iDID=1871803&iProjectObjectID=48898 (https://deldot.gov/public.ejs?command=PublicProjectPortalDocument&iDID=1871803&iProjectObjectID=48898)
Map of the Major projects happening in the area including the biggest project I-95. Looking at the section that goes thru Wilmington, that is about the size of the park Philly is putting over I-95 aka the CAP.
IMO if Delaware were to atleast prepare for that to be done in the future will doing this upcoming construction project it would probably push the city of Wilmington into a boom of people wanting to invest in it now that the middle of the city is connected once again. I could only imagine the amount of things the city could do after a cap is put through this section.
I just viewed this road on street level and a cap would be a great thing. Hopefully that gets done and included in the reconstruction project.
That said I am bewildered by two things (1) how a 200 million dollar project is considered "massive" in 2019 and (2) how on earth this stretch of freeway is only two GP thru lanes in each direction. Are they not even widening it to six?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 18, 2019, 08:09:44 PM
I just viewed this road on street level and a cap would be a great thing. Hopefully that gets done and included in the reconstruction project.
That said I am bewildered by two things (1) how a 200 million dollar project is considered "massive" in 2019 and (2) how on earth this stretch of freeway is only two GP thru lanes in each direction. Are they not even widening it to six?
DelDOTs budget for FY20 is $367 million. Even if $200 million is allocated over a 3 year project, that's about 20% of their overall budget for a relatively small section of roadway.
495 was built specifically to allow traffic to bypass this narrow section of highway. Very little room to expand.
$200m would be considered a big project in NY.
Is because most projects here are then mass transit? Billion dollar projects are becoming fairly common in other states.
A suppose using the term "big" project could be appropriate here but "massive" placing emphasis on big seems excessive, IMO.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 19, 2019, 09:49:28 AM
Is because most projects here are then mass transit? Billion dollar projects are becoming fairly common in other states.
A suppose using the term "big" project could be appropriate here but "massive" placing emphasis on big seems excessive, IMO.
I guess I wasn't clear above. Maybe you're thinking of LA pricing. But when a single project consumes 20% of your overall road funding, that is a big or massive project in terms of the overall budget. Don't be terribly focused on the actual dollar amount. If a small municipality had to spend $1 million when their annual budget is $2 million, that's a big expense for them. For a big city, it's pocket change.
^^^^ sorry I missed your post. That makes more sense though they would be able to do more if the feds provided more money.
Quote from: Rothman on November 19, 2019, 09:27:33 AM
$200m would be considered a big project in NY.
Could they successfully manage a project that size? :-/
How many reconstructions has Interstate 95 in Wilmington had since it was first constructed? It already seems to have had quite a few. Also, would it cause too many right-of-way impacts to make Interstate 95 consistently 6 lanes through Wilmington, like the 495 bypass is?
Looking at maps it seems like there is enough ROW for the most part. Apart from a handful of needed properties which really shouldn't be an issue, as noted Delaware does not give too much money to its DOT and this project would likely carry billion + dollar price tag.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 19, 2018, 10:44:30 PM
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/13/95-neighbors-wilmington-want-roof-over-highway/1987141002/ (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/13/95-neighbors-wilmington-want-roof-over-highway/1987141002/)
Seems residents are having the same thoughts that we were just talking about, not to long ago.
iPhone
By not to long ago, were you thinking 2004? Because it was proposed by Wilmington Mayor James Baker back then. I have a brief summary on the I-95 Delaware Guide (https://www.aaroads.com/guides/i-095-de/), which I posted back then based upon the May 12, 2004
News Journal article "Vision for Wilmington: Deck over I-95."
Quote from: Alex on December 13, 2019, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 19, 2018, 10:44:30 PM
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/13/95-neighbors-wilmington-want-roof-over-highway/1987141002/ (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/11/13/95-neighbors-wilmington-want-roof-over-highway/1987141002/)
Seems residents are having the same thoughts that we were just talking about, not to long ago.
iPhone
By not to long ago, were you thinking 2004? Because it was proposed by Wilmington Mayor James Baker back then. I have a brief summary on the I-95 Delaware Guide (https://www.aaroads.com/guides/i-095-de/), which I posted back then based upon the May 12, 2004 News Journal article "Vision for Wilmington: Deck over I-95."
I was talking about in this forum. We literally said they should cap I-95 & that News article came out probably a month after.
IMO with philly getting all the money together to finally cap their portion of I-95. Wilmington should be looking at doing the same.
iPhone
How long, though, before the New Urbanists Kool-Aid their way in with the "We could save even MORE money if we just converted current Wilmington I-95 to a surface boulevard and rerouted I-95 around the city via I-495!!!! CARS SUCK!!! OUT!!!!" nonsense?
Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 19, 2019, 05:45:07 AM
How long, though, before the New Urbanists Kool-Aid their way in with the "We could save even MORE money if we just converted current Wilmington I-95 to a surface boulevard and rerouted I-95 around the city via I-495!!!! CARS SUCK!!! OUT!!!!" nonsense?
I think of an upstate NY city where there are plans to do something similar. Call it "doing an 81" on [city name]. Which calls to mind this song...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vie8XxjpmMU
ixnay
Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 19, 2019, 05:45:07 AM
How long, though, before the New Urbanists Kool-Aid their way in with the "We could save even MORE money if we just converted current Wilmington I-95 to a surface boulevard and rerouted I-95 around the city via I-495!!!! CARS SUCK!!! OUT!!!!" nonsense?
Such was considered for the Philly stretch as well but was thankfully stopped by the fact that the daily traffic counts for that particular stretch were well over 120,000-130,000 vehicles. Both I-676 & 76, especially the 4-lane sections, in that area get gridlocked on a daily basis already; both roads would be hopelessly gridlocked 24/7 if that piece of I-95 was not in the picture.
However, unlike Philly, Wilmington does have the wider 6-lane I-495 within close proximity; so one advocating a highway removal advocate could use that as an argument. Such a plan would mean that I-495 would be redesignated
again as I-95.
The big questions for such would be:
1. What are the current daily traffic counts for I-95 through downtown Wilmington?
2. How much of those fore-mentioned counts local/o&d traffic?
3. Wouldn't the stakeholders, mainly the Riverfront venues, have a say on the matter?
I mentioned such earlier either here or on the general Delaware thread that those venues
rely on that portion of I-95 as a transportation means for their patrons, service & delivery vehicles. The DART busses & SEPTA/Amtrak rail services in the area are woefully inadequate for such.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2019, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 19, 2019, 05:45:07 AM
How long, though, before the New Urbanists Kool-Aid their way in with the "We could save even MORE money if we just converted current Wilmington I-95 to a surface boulevard and rerouted I-95 around the city via I-495!!!! CARS SUCK!!! OUT!!!!" nonsense?
Such was considered for the Philly stretch as well but was thankfully stopped by the fact that the daily traffic counts for that particular stretch were well over 120,000-130,000 vehicles. Both I-676 & 76, especially the 4-lane sections, in that area get gridlocked on a daily basis already; both roads would be hopelessly gridlocked 24/7 if that piece of I-95 was not in the picture.
However, unlike Philly, Wilmington does have the wider 6-lane I-495 within close proximity; so one advocating a highway removal advocate could use that as an argument. Such a plan would mean that I-495 would be redesignated again as I-95.
The big questions for such would be:
1. What are the current daily traffic counts for I-95 through downtown Wilmington?
2. How much of those fore-mentioned counts local/o&d traffic?
3. Wouldn't the stakeholders, mainly the Riverfront venues, have a say on the matter?
I mentioned such earlier either here or on the general Delaware thread that those venues rely on that portion of I-95 as a transportation means for their patrons, service & delivery vehicles. The DART busses & SEPTA/Amtrak rail services in the area are woefully inadequate for such.
I don't think there was any serious consideration for removing 95 in Philly by those that matter. It was, and still is, a goal of anti-highway folks that don't necessary look at ADT numbers, but rather look and say that it's the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected. Why these anti-highway people think that they can take 100,000+ vehicles and move them to 676, 76, and then a non-highway connection over the 35 mph Platt Bridge is a mind-boggling question. This is also where they lose support. They don't claim to want peds and bikes to share the road; they want peds and bikes to own the roads. Reasonable proposals will give them room for negotiation. Removing 95 completely is ridiculous.
As far as Wilmington goes, they probably simply don't have the united support of residents within the city to remove 95, or even to cap it. Yes, it's been discussed off and on for years, but the cost of such a cap would probably be close to the annual budget for all of Delaware's roadways state-wide.
The area of Wilmington that 95 directly affects is just a few blocks when it comes down to it, from around 4th Street to 9th Street. On the face of it, it wouldn't be too hard to have 495 renumbered as 95 carry the thru traffic. . But I don't think Wilmington would be all that interested in losing one of the USA's highest profile highways thru their city.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
I don't think there was any serious consideration for removing 95 in Philly by those that matter. It was, and still is, a goal of anti-highway folks that don't necessary look at ADT numbers, but rather look and say that it's the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected.
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2019, 10:59:22 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 19, 2019, 05:45:07 AM
How long, though, before the New Urbanists Kool-Aid their way in with the "We could save even MORE money if we just converted current Wilmington I-95 to a surface boulevard and rerouted I-95 around the city via I-495!!!! CARS SUCK!!! OUT!!!!" nonsense?
Such was considered for the Philly stretch as well but was thankfully stopped by the fact that the daily traffic counts for that particular stretch were well over 120,000-130,000 vehicles. Both I-676 & 76, especially the 4-lane sections, in that area get gridlocked on a daily basis already; both roads would be hopelessly gridlocked 24/7 if that piece of I-95 was not in the picture.
However, unlike Philly, Wilmington does have the wider 6-lane I-495 within close proximity; so one advocating a highway removal advocate could use that as an argument. Such a plan would mean that I-495 would be redesignated again as I-95.
The big questions for such would be:
1. What are the current daily traffic counts for I-95 through downtown Wilmington?
2. How much of those fore-mentioned counts local/o&d traffic?
3. Wouldn't the stakeholders, mainly the Riverfront venues, have a say on the matter?
I mentioned such earlier either here or on the general Delaware thread that those venues rely on that portion of I-95 as a transportation means for their patrons, service & delivery vehicles. The DART busses & SEPTA/Amtrak rail services in the area are woefully inadequate for such.
I don't think there was any serious consideration for removing 95 in Philly by those that matter. It was, and still is, a goal of anti-highway folks that don't necessary look at ADT numbers, but rather look and say that it's the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected. Why these anti-highway people think that they can take 100,000+ vehicles and move them to 676, 76, and then a non-highway connection over the 35 mph Platt Bridge is a mind-boggling question. This is also where they lose support. They don't claim to want peds and bikes to share the road; they want peds and bikes to own the roads. Reasonable proposals will give them room for negotiation. Removing 95 completely is ridiculous.
As far as Wilmington goes, they probably simply don't have the united support of residents within the city to remove 95, or even to cap it. Yes, it's been discussed off and on for years, but the cost of such a cap would probably be close to the annual budget for all of Delaware's roadways state-wide.
The area of Wilmington that 95 directly affects is just a few blocks when it comes down to it, from around 4th Street to 9th Street. On the face of it, it wouldn't be too hard to have 495 renumbered as 95 carry the thru traffic. . But I don't think Wilmington would be all that interested in losing one of the USA's highest profile highways thru their city.
Shutting down 95 in Philly is a very bad idea. I dont even think Bicyclists would think thats a good idea. I dont know who would even think thats a good idea
As far as the cap in Wilmington goes, I think its owed due to the fact that spilt a thriving area in half & caused the city to be what it is today, granted the city is improving but the damage it has caused will last another 20-40 years.
The pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable"
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AM
The pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable"
Most cities were already divided in that way decades previously by various railroad lines.
By rivers and major creeks as well, and while they are natural and not manmade, the decision to build urbanized areas around them was certainly manmade.
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AM
The pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable"
Most cities were already divided in that way decades previously by various railroad lines.
By rivers and major creeks as well, and while they are natural and not manmade, the decision to build urbanized areas around them was certainly manmade.
Ahh, but were the rail lines as dividing as a highway is? Every-time I see a rail line, wether it Trolley, Subway or Elevated; it brings people together unlike a highway which is dangerous & for cars only.
I dont want to bring this convo into politics. But Minority neighborhoods were thriving & then highways were built & areas were raved. You then saw the fall of these areas & they haven't came back yet. I think a solution needs to be met with both sides.
iPhone
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
I don't think there was any serious consideration for removing 95 in Philly by those that matter. It was, and still is, a goal of anti-highway folks that don't necessary look at ADT numbers, but rather look and say that it's the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected.
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
It would be more important to know how much 95 traffic is beyond-region based. It would probably be easy to argue that most of that traffic is relatively localized to the Delaware Valley area. I'm sure very little traffic, especially going Southbound, left the Turnpike to get over to 95 in Pennsy to continue their drive south to Delaware and beyond in years-past.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
Now that the 95 routing is complete, it would be a complete slap in the face for everyone to complain that 95 in NJ was never completed, then to turn around and cut off 95 in Philly.
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 12:02:02 PM
Ahh, but were the rail lines as dividing as a highway is? Every-time I see a rail line, wether it Trolley, Subway or Elevated; it brings people together unlike a highway which is dangerous & for cars only.
Do you see Amtrak lines? SEPTA Regional Rail lines? These are the lines being referred to. They probably aren't as divided as much as highways because people cut the fence and trespass through. Then when someone is hit, they blame the rail line (and often, the wrong agency) for allowing that hole to exist, even though as they complain, someone is probably cutting a new hole in the fence.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
I don't think there was any serious consideration for removing 95 in Philly by those that matter. It was, and still is, a goal of anti-highway folks that don't necessary look at ADT numbers, but rather look and say that it's the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected.
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
It would be more important to know how much 95 traffic is beyond-region based. It would probably be easy to argue that most of that traffic is relatively localized to the Delaware Valley area. I'm sure very little traffic, especially going Southbound, left the Turnpike to get over to 95 in Pennsy to continue their drive south to Delaware and beyond in years-past.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
Now that the 95 routing is complete, it would be a complete slap in the face for everyone to complain that 95 in NJ was never completed, then to turn around and cut off 95 in Philly.
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 12:02:02 PM
Ahh, but were the rail lines as dividing as a highway is? Every-time I see a rail line, wether it Trolley, Subway or Elevated; it brings people together unlike a highway which is dangerous & for cars only.
Do you see Amtrak lines? SEPTA Regional Rail lines? These are the lines being referred to. They probably aren't as divided as much as highways because people cut the fence and trespass through. Then when someone is hit, they blame the rail line (and often, the wrong agency) for allowing that hole to exist, even though as they complain, someone is probably cutting a new hole in the fence.
Cmon jeff, are we gonna act like anyone that cuts a hole in a fence to cross the tracks that are usually not around regular walking routes are people that are up to no good or homeless people trying to get to the camp?
Anyone who plays by the train tracks are asking for something to happen. This isnt the 1800's where we have trains running thru major areas of cities at ground level....
iPhone
Also if anyone hasnt saw the plans for I-95 reconstruction yet, here they go.
https://deldot.gov/projects/index.shtml?dc=details&projectNumber=T201407404 (https://deldot.gov/projects/index.shtml?dc=details&projectNumber=T201407404)
Very interesting stuff in here.
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AMThe pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable" .
Many crime-infested neighborhoods existed
before any highways were built in said-areas. Many areas that were once thriving economically that became crime-infested areas later on was the result of many factories, mills, textiles, etc. closing down with nothing viable as an economic replacement. In terms of pollution, those fore-mentioned establishments weren't exactly pollution-free in their hey-day either. I could also state some cultural, political & societal reasons for such as well; but I'm not going to derail this thread & turn it into a flame war/p*ssing contest for such.
Long story short: saying that highways are the
primary reason for urban blight & pollution in many instances is flat-out bunk because such already existed beforehand. Highways, both proposed & existing, are just common scapegoats.
It's also rather ironic that streetcars started white flight to streetcar suburbs. Anti car loons love to twist and forget facts when it is inconvenient to their cause. Yes we can do better with freeway construction but it doesn't have to be a zero sum equation.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AMThe pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50’s would call “undesirable”.
Many crime-infested neighborhoods existed before any highways were built in said-areas. Many areas that were once thriving economically that became crime-infested areas later on was the result of many factories, mills, textiles, etc. closing down with nothing viable as an economic replacement. In terms of pollution, those fore-mentioned establishments weren't exactly pollution-free in their hey-day either. I could also state some cultural, political & societal reasons for such as well; but I'm not going to derail this thread & turn it into a flame war/p*ssing contest for such.
Long story short: saying that highways are the primary reason for urban blight & pollution in many instances is flat-out bunk because such already existed beforehand. Highways, both proposed & existing, are just common scapegoats.
And to further that - many highways were designed to go thru poorer areas where people didn't have the money, willpower, or politicians-in-their-back-pocket to fight the path of the highway.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AMThe pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable" .
Many crime-infested neighborhoods existed before any highways were built in said-areas. Many areas that were once thriving economically that became crime-infested areas later on was the result of many factories, mills, textiles, etc. closing down with nothing viable as an economic replacement. In terms of pollution, those fore-mentioned establishments weren't exactly pollution-free in their hey-day either. I could also state some cultural, political & societal reasons for such as well; but I'm not going to derail this thread & turn it into a flame war/p*ssing contest for such.
Long story short: saying that highways are the primary reason for urban blight & pollution in many instances is flat-out bunk because such already existed beforehand. Highways, both proposed & existing, are just common scapegoats.
I agree with you completely & I believe we don't have to turn this into a "whos right contest" .
I am not gonna speak about other cities, in this case Wilmington's Westside where the highway was built was a thriving neighborhood with factories, houses, businesses & more. (From sources I can put in this topic,)
They just chose that area & "razed it" there was also another route alternative that didn't destroy a major part of the city, but they didnt choose that one( source TBA). Residents also from that time say the neighborhood went downhill after the highway was built. Also they didn't add ramps to the area for a while (source).
Im not saying highways are the reason for blight or destroying neighborhoods, but its the way they implemented these said highways into urban areas.
Yes many area were already economically-depressed / crime ridden, But after many of these highways just cut through many of these cities it drastically changed everything. We now know how to implement highways & other things into areas without causing a massive effect now, but we know the past & what was going on at the time so it would be our duty now to right those wrongs & that goes for everyone not just the Government.
To say what they did in the past didnt excel these issues would be ignoring history.
iPhone
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 03:24:03 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AMThe pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable" .
Many crime-infested neighborhoods existed before any highways were built in said-areas. Many areas that were once thriving economically that became crime-infested areas later on was the result of many factories, mills, textiles, etc. closing down with nothing viable as an economic replacement. In terms of pollution, those fore-mentioned establishments weren't exactly pollution-free in their hey-day either. I could also state some cultural, political & societal reasons for such as well; but I'm not going to derail this thread & turn it into a flame war/p*ssing contest for such.
Long story short: saying that highways are the primary reason for urban blight & pollution in many instances is flat-out bunk because such already existed beforehand. Highways, both proposed & existing, are just common scapegoats.
And to further that - many highways were designed to go thru poorer areas where people didn't have the money, willpower, or politicians-in-their-back-pocket to fight the path of the highway.
so you are telling me the the freeway builders took the path of least resistance? Well that shouldn't be very shocking.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
If Delaware and New Jersey had not built those two bypasses, then the northeastern corridor freeway route traffic would utilize I-95 thru Southeastern Pennsylvania, and the I-476/I-276 bypass.
The local traffic, regional traffic, and thru traffic would greatly increase the traffic on those routes. I-95 in central Philadelphia would have AADT in the 220,000 to 250,000 range, and I-476 might exceed 200,000, as would some parts of I-276.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 19, 2019, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 03:24:03 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 19, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AMThe pushing of highways thru urban areas is another reason that many cities have crime & pollution. Areas being determined as a West or east side because a highway splits the area caused many of the things we see today that people in the 50's would call "undesirable" .
Many crime-infested neighborhoods existed before any highways were built in said-areas. Many areas that were once thriving economically that became crime-infested areas later on was the result of many factories, mills, textiles, etc. closing down with nothing viable as an economic replacement. In terms of pollution, those fore-mentioned establishments weren't exactly pollution-free in their hey-day either. I could also state some cultural, political & societal reasons for such as well; but I'm not going to derail this thread & turn it into a flame war/p*ssing contest for such.
Long story short: saying that highways are the primary reason for urban blight & pollution in many instances is flat-out bunk because such already existed beforehand. Highways, both proposed & existing, are just common scapegoats.
And to further that - many highways were designed to go thru poorer areas where people didn't have the money, willpower, or politicians-in-their-back-pocket to fight the path of the highway.
so you are telling me the the freeway builders took the path of least resistance? Well that shouldn't be very shocking.
You? No.
People that believe highways caused neighborhoods to go downhill? Yes.
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
If Delaware and New Jersey had not built those two bypasses, then the northeastern corridor freeway route traffic would utilize I-95 thru Southeastern Pennsylvania, and the I-476/I-276 bypass.
The local traffic, regional traffic, and thru traffic would greatly increase the traffic on those routes. I-95 in central Philadelphia would have AADT in the 220,000 to 250,000 range, and I-476 might exceed 200,000, as would some parts of I-276.
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
If Delaware and New Jersey had not built those two bypasses, then the northeastern corridor freeway route traffic would utilize I-95 thru Southeastern Pennsylvania, and the I-476/I-276 bypass.
The local traffic, regional traffic, and thru traffic would greatly increase the traffic on those routes. I-95 in central Philadelphia would have AADT in the 220,000 to 250,000 range, and I-476 might exceed 200,000, as would some parts of I-276.
Okayyyy...but they were, so what's the point of playing "what if"? I thought the question at hand is how much thru traffic is on 95 in Philly based on what actually exists today.
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
If Delaware and New Jersey had not built those two bypasses, then the northeastern corridor freeway route traffic would utilize I-95 thru Southeastern Pennsylvania, and the I-476/I-276 bypass.
The local traffic, regional traffic, and thru traffic would greatly increase the traffic on those routes. I-95 in central Philadelphia would have AADT in the 220,000 to 250,000 range, and I-476 might exceed 200,000, as would some parts of I-276.
Okayyyy...but they were, so what's the point of playing "what if"? I thought the question at hand is how much thru traffic is on 95 in Philly based on what actually exists today.
My topmost comment was directed to where you posted, "... say that it's [Phila. I-95] the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected."
That is true, but the fact that at 8 lanes it was able to do that, was because of the 3 Interstate standard bypasses.
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 03:34:08 PMI am not gonna speak about other cities, in this case Wilmington's Westside where the highway was built was a thriving neighborhood with factories, houses, businesses & more. (From sources I can put in this topic,)
One historical question worth asking would be: did those factories and businesses close or relocate
because of the highway construction or were such close/relocated
years beforehand, unrelated to any then-proposed highway plans?
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 08:57:34 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole
Also importantly, in that it is paralleled by 3 Interstate standard Philadelphia bypasses --
I-476/I-276, I-295 and NJTP.
I would imagine a LOT of that 95 traffic flowing thru Philly is simply traffic going from a PA county to a PA county (ie, Bucks County to Delaware County). A simple license plate could would probably verify how many non-PA and non-NJ tags travel thru this area. And figure that the destination for many of those non-state tags is Philly or a nearby county. Sesame Place, for example, is a frequently visited amusement park where travelers from Delaware or Maryland wouldn't generally benefit by crossing over into NJ, then back into PA.
If Delaware and New Jersey had not built those two bypasses, then the northeastern corridor freeway route traffic would utilize I-95 thru Southeastern Pennsylvania, and the I-476/I-276 bypass.
The local traffic, regional traffic, and thru traffic would greatly increase the traffic on those routes. I-95 in central Philadelphia would have AADT in the 220,000 to 250,000 range, and I-476 might exceed 200,000, as would some parts of I-276.
Okayyyy...but they were, so what's the point of playing "what if"? I thought the question at hand is how much thru traffic is on 95 in Philly based on what actually exists today.
My topmost comment was directed to where you posted, "... say that it's [Phila. I-95] the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected."
That is true, but the fact that at 8 lanes it was able to do that, was because of the 3 Interstate standard bypasses.
Please explain the 6 and 4 lane portions then, please.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 20, 2019, 09:16:20 AM
Quote from: Beltway on December 19, 2019, 08:57:34 PM
My topmost comment was directed to where you posted, "... say that it's [Phila. I-95] the least congested stretch of highway in the area, which is true because it was built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected."
That is true, but the fact that at 8 lanes it was able to do that, was because of the 3 Interstate standard bypasses.
Please explain the 6 and 4 lane portions then, please.
What about them?
Or are you suggesting that the 6 and 4 lane portions were -not- built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected?
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 09:52:35 AM
...Or are you suggesting that the 6 and 4 lane portions were -not- built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected?
Correct.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 20, 2019, 10:16:04 AM
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 09:52:35 AM
...Or are you suggesting that the 6 and 4 lane portions were -not- built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected?
Correct.
Back in the 1960s?
The gripe I had with the generally 8-lane section between Front Street and Academy Road that was completed in 1969, was the 3 or 4 brief lane drops each way to 3 lanes. They should have made it a continuous 4 lanes each way. The current "Revive 95" projects will thankfully correct that, as well as providing full shoulders all the way.
Enterprise Avenue to Broad Street originally did have 4 lanes each way, but that was later reduced to 3 lanes each way on the Girard Point Bridge to enable full shoulders.
I'm not sure why Broad Street to I-76 was built with 6 lanes, but 1990s traffic projections back in the early 1970s may have indicated that it would be adequate.
The lane drops to 2 lanes each way at I-476 may have been reasonable in 1970 but were not when I-476 was completed in 1992.
The 6 lane section between Delaware and I-476 was probably adequate when designed in the 1960s for the 1980s.
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
I'm not sure why Broad Street to I-76 was built with 6 lanes, but 1990s traffic projections back in the early 1970s may have indicated that it would be adequate.
Traffic projections we now know, were frequently too low.
Exhibit A is a road I know very well, the Virginia portion of the Capital Beltway (I-495) between I-95 and the American Legion Bridge.
The Virginia Department of Highways (VDH), predecessor to the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT), was told by engineers and planners with the federal Bureau of Public Roads in the late 1950's or early 1960's that this part of I-495 would not be approved for more than two lanes each way (total of 4 lanes), and that's the way it was when it was completed in 1964. As I understand it, the feds were confident that there would be little or no growth in Fairfax County, Virginia, including a dusty crossroads intersection known as Tysons Corner at the junction of VA-7 and VA-123 and that four lanes would be enough for many years to come.
Those assertions would prove to be incorrect, and there were soon backups on the Outer Loop crossing the American Legion Bridge from Maryland to Virginia (the left lane dropped near the Virginia shoreline).
That went on until the mid-1970's, when VDH was able to secure approval to widen all of it from 4 lanes to 8 lanes in one massive project that was completed abut 1976 or 1977. Then the backups flipped, since the Beltway at the American Legion Bridge was still 6 lanes, so drivers headed from Virginia to Maryland had to endure years of misery (the Maryland part was only widened to 8 lanes (along with the bridge itself) around 1990.
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 03:34:08 PM
We now know how to implement highways & other things into areas without causing a massive effect now...
We do? Please tell us what they are.
On the contrary my view is that instead the decision almost everywhere is to build no new highways in dense urban areas.
Quote from: PastTense on December 20, 2019, 08:31:21 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 03:34:08 PM
We now know how to implement highways & other things into areas without causing a massive effect now...
We do? Please tell us what they are.
On the contrary my view is that instead the decision almost everywhere is to build no new highways in dense urban areas.
Thats my point, but also to build it in a way that people can live & work around it without it cutting an area in half.
iPhone
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 20, 2019, 10:16:04 AM
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 09:52:35 AM
...Or are you suggesting that the 6 and 4 lane portions were -not- built properly to handle the amount of traffic expected?
Correct.
Back in the 1960s?
The gripe I had with the generally 8-lane section between Front Street and Academy Road that was completed in 1969, was the 3 or 4 brief lane drops each way to 3 lanes. They should have made it a continuous 4 lanes each way. The current "Revive 95" projects will thankfully correct that, as well as providing full shoulders all the way.
Enterprise Avenue to Broad Street originally did have 4 lanes each way, but that was later reduced to 3 lanes each way on the Girard Point Bridge to enable full shoulders.
I'm not sure why Broad Street to I-76 was built with 6 lanes, but 1990s traffic projections back in the early 1970s may have indicated that it would be adequate.
The lane drops to 2 lanes each way at I-476 may have been reasonable in 1970 but were not when I-476 was completed in 1992.
The 6 lane section between Delaware and I-476 was probably adequate when designed in the 1960s for the 1980s.
6 lanes between Broad and I-76 is probably okay. I-95 really needs to be 10 lanes from I-676 north for some distance and 8 lanes all the way up to PA 413, if not into the I-276 interchange.
Quote from: Alps on December 21, 2019, 03:05:33 AM
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
I'm not sure why Broad Street to I-76 was built with 6 lanes, but 1990s traffic projections back in the early 1970s may have indicated that it would be adequate.
6 lanes between Broad and I-76 is probably okay. I-95 really needs to be 10 lanes from I-676 north for some distance and 8 lanes all the way up to PA 413, if not into the I-276 interchange.
2017 traffic volumes for I-95 between the PHL airport and Center City are in the 109,000 to 126,000 AADT range.
Considering the huge population of this metro, that is not bad (again probably half of what AADT would be if no bypass in DE/NJ), and given the cost of widening those long elevated sections, I wouldn't put a lot of priority on it at this point.
Quote6 lanes between Broad and I-76 is probably okay. I-95 really needs to be 10 lanes from I-676 north for some distance and 8 lanes all the way up to PA 413, if not into the I-276 interchange.
PennDOT's I-95 website (http://www.95revive.com/) sadly does not make this clear, but I believe that the current projects are supposed to make it 8 through lanes from I-676 to PA 73.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 21, 2019, 08:52:20 AM
PennDOT's I-95 website (http://www.95revive.com/) sadly does not make this clear, but I believe that the current projects are supposed to make it 8 through lanes from I-676 to PA 73.
The 10 miles between Front Street and Academy Road was built in the 1960s as generally 8 lanes, but it had 3 or 4 brief lane drops to 3 lanes at interchanges. The 7 miles between Academy Road and PA-413 was built with 6 lanes, also in the 1960s.
So after 95revive is complete, I-95 will have 4 continuous lanes each way between I-676 and Academy Road.
Given the large amount of entering and exiting traffic at I-676, having lane drops to 3 lanes is compatible with the 4-4 design on either side.
Quote from: Beltway on December 21, 2019, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 21, 2019, 08:52:20 AM
PennDOT's I-95 website (http://www.95revive.com/) sadly does not make this clear, but I believe that the current projects are supposed to make it 8 through lanes from I-676 to PA 73.
The 10 miles between Front Street and Academy Road was built in the 1960s as generally 8 lanes, but it had 3 or 4 brief lane drops to 3 lanes at interchanges. The 7 miles between Academy Road and PA-413 was built with 6 lanes, also in the 1960s.
So after 95revive is complete, I-95 will have 4 continuous lanes each way between I-676 and Academy Road.
Given the large amount of entering and exiting traffic at I-676, having lane drops to 3 lanes is compatible with the 4-4 design on either side.
It'll also have a fifth auxiliary lane each way between some of the lower interchanges, particularly between I-676 and Girard Avenue.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 20, 2019, 08:30:48 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on December 19, 2019, 03:34:08 PMI am not gonna speak about other cities, in this case Wilmington's Westside where the highway was built was a thriving neighborhood with factories, houses, businesses & more. (From sources I can put in this topic,)
One historical question worth asking would be: did those factories and businesses close or relocate because of the highway construction or were such close/relocated years beforehand, unrelated to any then-proposed highway plans?
I wanted to find some evidence before I spoke anymore. In the article I will post below, they had two chooses ok where to build I-95 A.Through a less populated by Bancroft (which costed more) or B.Through a densely populated area( cheaper).
Now what the GOV thought was that more developers would come in & start to redevelop the whole area & make it great.... wrong it backfired & the areas remained empty for years & the population dropped. They removed 600 structures that had 970 dwellings were removed along with 22 blocks of slums.
They also started to redevelop the whole city as-well requiring stores to upgrade & implementing a mall which I believe is what Market ST mall was. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
Now in this Wilmington's case I-95 construction destroyed the city literally along with bad planning & is probably the reason IMO for the cities slow growth as-well. Were some of the buildings in that area abandoned maybe, but this was still an area that didn't even get to see the fall of manufacturing because it was destroyed before it could happen & everyone was displaced. (Mix that with the riots from the MLK assassination) & the national guard staying in Wilmington for a year. It beat the dog dead.
Edit: added link [URL]https://townsquaredelaware.com/2012/09/06/wilmington-how-we-got-here-and-where-were-going-2/ /[URL]
iPhone
Quote from: Beltway on December 21, 2019, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 21, 2019, 08:52:20 AM
PennDOT's I-95 website (http://www.95revive.com/) sadly does not make this clear, but I believe that the current projects are supposed to make it 8 through lanes from I-676 to PA 73.
The 10 miles between Front Street and Academy Road was built in the 1960s as generally 8 lanes, but it had 3 or 4 brief lane drops to 3 lanes at interchanges. The 7 miles between Academy Road and PA-413 was built with 6 lanes, also in the 1960s.
So after 95revive is complete, I-95 will have 4 continuous lanes each way between I-676 and Academy Road.
Given the large amount of entering and exiting traffic at I-676, having lane drops to 3 lanes is compatible with the 4-4 design on either side.
In my experience, more people are heading to-from the north than the south when it comes to I-676, which is why I'd suggest 10 lanes are needed. 8 lanes backs up all the way to that split, and possibly as much as half the traffic is going down to 676 or taking the surface street exit right there. Meanwhile, with 8 lanes from the airport, there's a decent amount of traffic heading northwest toward I-76 that leaves I-95 with less traffic through the Walt area.
Quote from: Alps on December 21, 2019, 04:00:13 PM
In my experience, more people are heading to-from the north than the south when it comes to I-676, which is why I'd suggest 10 lanes are needed. 8 lanes backs up all the way to that split, and possibly as much as half the traffic is going down to 676 or taking the surface street exit right there. Meanwhile, with 8 lanes from the airport, there's a decent amount of traffic heading northwest toward I-76 that leaves I-95 with less traffic through the Walt area.
10 lanes north of I-676?
For how many miles?
PA-291 and the Penrose Bridge is a reliever to I-95 north of the airport, that has an AADT of about 44,000.
Quote from: Beltway on December 21, 2019, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 21, 2019, 04:00:13 PM
In my experience, more people are heading to-from the north than the south when it comes to I-676, which is why I'd suggest 10 lanes are needed. 8 lanes backs up all the way to that split, and possibly as much as half the traffic is going down to 676 or taking the surface street exit right there. Meanwhile, with 8 lanes from the airport, there's a decent amount of traffic heading northwest toward I-76 that leaves I-95 with less traffic through the Walt area.
10 lanes north of I-676?
For how many miles?
PA-291 and the Penrose Bridge is a reliever to I-95 north of the airport, that has an AADT of about 44,000.
The ten-lane stretches in the 95revive project are basically just auxiliary lanes. It'll be ten lanes from 676 to Girard, eight lanes through Girard, then I believe ten lanes again between Girard and the ramps at Allegheny Avenue.
Quote from: Beltway on December 21, 2019, 08:41:44 AM
Quote from: Alps on December 21, 2019, 03:05:33 AM
Quote from: Beltway on December 20, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
I'm not sure why Broad Street to I-76 was built with 6 lanes, but 1990s traffic projections back in the early 1970s may have indicated that it would be adequate.
6 lanes between Broad and I-76 is probably okay. I-95 really needs to be 10 lanes from I-676 north for some distance and 8 lanes all the way up to PA 413, if not into the I-276 interchange.
2017 traffic volumes for I-95 between the PHL airport and Center City are in the 109,000 to 126,000 AADT range.
Considering the huge population of this metro, that is not bad (again probably half of what AADT would be if no bypass in DE/NJ), and given the cost of widening those long elevated sections, I wouldn't put a lot of priority on it at this point.
Alps wasn't referring to that particular stretch of I-95 with his widening recommendation. That same 2017 traffic volume map (http://www.dot7.state.pa.us/BPR_PDF_FILES/MAPS/Traffic/Traffic_Volume/County_Maps/Philadelphia_tv.pdf) shows I-95 between I-676 and Academy Rd. ranging from 178,000 to 199,000 AADT depending on location. One, but certainly not the only, reason for those high volumes is due to the absence of the proposed Tacony/Pulaski and Ten-Mile-Loop Expressways. Plans fro both of those were scrapped circa 1977. Those expressways would've diverted a portion of that I-95 traffic.