Minor things that bother you

[formulanone]

In fact, first class probably isn't even the same size between the two airlines.

Even between airlines, they offer different sizes of First Clast cabin. For example, Delta uses 3 rows of 4 seats for the Airbus A319, which American uses 2 rows in the same aircraft type. And of course, Southwest only offers a single cabin, so seat spacing on their 737 is naturally different than two-cabin 737s.

I even think there are cases of a single airline having multiple arrangements on a single aircraft model.

Delta had 7-8 versions of the Boeing 757 in use at the same time. Sometimes the differences were one or two passengers; other times, several dozen. If there was an unexpected last-moment aircraft change, it wasn't unusual to see someone get involuntarily bumped, or to suddenly have 20 more passengers on a standby list. In recent years, they've standardized a lot of that aircraft type, so less of that seems to occur.

Of the Boeing 757, there were just the 200 and 300 series (the longer of the two), but in multiple configurations for each. One reason was that they have versions with a little more legroom and lay-flat seating for trans-Atlantic flights or for flights to Hawaii. The other reason was that they had acquired 757s from other airlines and also through their merger with Northwest; while they'd retrofit them with new seats and such, the galley and restroom locations might be a little different, so they'd have to work around that.

While we're on the subject of airlines, let me share my insane story flying from JFK to Charlotte. We left at 12:15 pm for a 2:30 pm flight, since I live about 20 miles from JFK. When 2:30 came at the airport, first there was a pilot who was delayed due to maintenance issues on another flight so we had to wait until a new pilot arrived. So 2:30 already turned into 3:30 by the time we boarded. Next, after taxiing out, we were told that because of bad weather in the D.C. area, we were going to be on a new route to Charlotte via Cleveland, which would take twice as long, so we were going to have to go back to the gate to get more fuel for the extra 300+ miles added. This took 2 hours to get the extra fuel. Next, we taxi out to the runway, only to here that we are back on our original path due to the weather dissipating. We finally took off at 6:10 instead of 3:30. But since we are back on our original route, the flight only has a little over an hour left (541 miles)..WRONG! About 100 miles from landing, we are told that there are now thunderstorms over charlotte, so we had to wait again as we did figure 8s over and over in a holding pattern for 40 minutes. We finally landed at 8:10-8:15. 8 hours from start to finish, for a 1 hour flight. 4-5 hours on the plane itself, most of which was taking a tour of the airport on the tarmac due to zigzagging back and forth which ended up being for nothing anyway! And on top of all this, the windows literally being almost between the rows of seats!! Unbelievable.

I get that kind of thing every two years or so, which is honestly no fun. Worst was when we had to keep going back three times for more fuel, which would have been less of a problem had they just topped it off to begin with, but...

1) extra weight of added fuel on the aircraft is less fuel efficient

2) the added take-off weight leads to more wear and tear on engines, which is basically a $5,000,000 component

3) weather patterns change, and that affect the other aircraft already in the air; they can't easily land if there's too much head/tail wind, wind shear is detected, or thunderstorms

4) large airports have less availability to make space for your landing; they need at least 60 seconds (120 for a widebody jet) between movements. While they try to leave a little gap for unexpected moments like that, it's not always practical or possible.

5) you'd think you could just have air traffic control just ask twelve other planes to slow down or zig-zag to make room, but that's reserved for bona fide emergencies and not a practical use of resources

[MultiMillionMiler]

The real question was why would you have to go to Cleveland just to get around some bad weather in D.C.? No thunderstorm squall line is that wide. The bad weather line was north-south anyway, so why would we have had to go 400 miles west to get around it?

[JoePCool14]

While we're on the subject of airlines, let me share my insane story flying from JFK to Charlotte. We left at 12:15 pm for a 2:30 pm flight, since I live about 20 miles from JFK. When 2:30 came at the airport, first there was a pilot who was delayed due to maintenance issues on another flight so we had to wait until a new pilot arrived. So 2:30 already turned into 3:30 by the time we boarded. Next, after taxiing out, we were told that because of bad weather in the D.C. area, we were going to be on a new route to Charlotte via Cleveland, which would take twice as long, so we were going to have to go back to the gate to get more fuel for the extra 300+ miles added. This took 2 hours to get the extra fuel. Next, we taxi out to the runway, only to here that we are back on our original path due to the weather dissipating. We finally took off at 6:10 instead of 3:30. But since we are back on our original route, the flight only has a little over an hour left (541 miles)..WRONG! About 100 miles from landing, we are told that there are now thunderstorms over charlotte, so we had to wait again as we did figure 8s over and over in a holding pattern for 40 minutes. We finally landed at 8:10-8:15. 8 hours from start to finish, for a 1 hour flight. 4-5 hours on the plane itself, most of which was taking a tour of the airport on the tarmac due to zigzagging back and forth which ended up being for nothing anyway! And on top of all this, the windows literally being almost between the rows of seats!! Unbelievable.

That sounds like a mess. That's why 1 hour flights generally aren't worth the hassle, unless it's a connecting flight. It's been years since I've had to deal with so many issues. I've dealt with delays, but once we were airborne, no holding patterns or diversions.

The real question was why would you have to go to Cleveland just to get around some bad weather in D.C.? No thunderstorm squall line is that wide. The bad weather line was north-south anyway, so why would we have had to go 400 miles west to get around it?

There have been some massive storm systems that can easily cover the entire eastern half of the country to some extent. So it's definitely possible.

I don't understand going to Charlotte from New York City via Cleveland though.

[hotdogPi]

1-hour flights should be banned unless there is no good alternative. Boston to DC or any subset of that is easily doable by train. Even in places with no train, most pairs of cities are still drivable. Fuel consumption is the main concern here, as taking off and landing require more fuel than just staying in the air. Europe actually enforces this with a rule that if it's easily doable by train, you can't schedule a flight between those two cities (connecting flights are still allowed).

And just in case anyone gets confused and is wondering why New York to Charlotte should be banned: the story was for a 2h15m flight, not a 1-hour flight. I'm referring to shorter ones.

[MultiMillionMiler]

Because apparently the bad weather was concentrated in D.C. so to avoid their airspace we were going to go to Cleveland. Don't ask me why LOL! But by the time we got the new fuel we were back on the direct route anyway. Now that I think of it, it may have taken around the same amount of time to drive. Even at 70 mph, that's around 8 hours. The flight time is more like 1 hr 30 cause it takes time to accelerate to 500 mph. (Max speed was 510 according to my speedometer app)

[J N Winkler]

The NYC-Charlotte routing via Cleveland makes me wonder if the goal was to spread workload on en-route controllers by routing ZNY-ZOB-ZID-ZTL instead of ZNY-ZDC-ZTL.

[skluth]

1-hour flights should be banned unless there is no good alternative. Boston to DC or any subset of that is easily doable by train. Even in places with no train, most pairs of cities are still drivable. Fuel consumption is the main concern here, as taking off and landing require more fuel than just staying in the air. Europe actually enforces this with a rule that if it's easily doable by train, you can't schedule a flight between those two cities (connecting flights are still allowed).

And just in case anyone gets confused and is wondering why New York to Charlotte should be banned: the story was for a 2h15m flight, not a 1-hour flight. I'm referring to shorter ones.

Many short flights are to hubs with connecting flights to other destinations. My last flight back from Europe ended in Phoenix where I caught a short hop to Palm Springs, a 45 minute flight but a four hour drive. And I was not in the mood to drive four hours after flying back from Spain. I'd have been happy to take a train home from PHX but we only get one train on alternate days and it goes via Tucson, not Phoenix (plus our train station is well out of the populated part of PS). Build high speed rail from the Coachella Valley to either PHX or LAX and I'll happily take the train. HSR going to LAX would also solve one of So Cal's greatest dilemmas, getting a friend to take you to or pick you up at LAX. Yes, a lot of jet fuel is wasted on flights along the Eastern Corridor where passengers could take trains. But that's really not an option for much of the country no matter how much I wish I could.

[kkt]

Unbelievable.

If only it really were unbelievable.

[Max Rockatansky]

Unbelievable.

If only it really were unbelievable.

That's sure a lot of flying for someone with aspirations to drive 2,000,000 miles.  But hey, why not buy the entourage holiday flights when you have $29,000 in liquid cash assets?

[MultiMillionMiler]

Unbelievable.

If only it really were unbelievable.

That's sure a lot of flying for someone with aspirations to drive 2,000,000 miles.  But hey, why not buy the entourage holiday flights when you have $29,000 in liquid cash assets?

It's actually 26,000 now, car expenses hit me hard this year. But I rarely fly. My last flight was over 9 years ago. Charlotte was originally going to be a road trip but I changed my mind.

[jakeroot]

In a similar vein to the seatbelt sign, when flight attendants force all windows to be dimmed on modern aircraft like the B787 or upcoming Air Bus A350. I'm okay with giving passengers some sleep time, but it's unfair to have it locked down for the entire flight.

For the record, I haven't been on a 787 as of yet. But I've heard about it through trip reports on YouTube.

I experienced this flying from Seattle to Tokyo (JAL 787). The flight is entirely daylight, so the cabin crew will dim the windows midway through the flight for about four hours so that people can catch up on sleep. It's actually really important because flights like the one I was on results in some crazy long days...the last thing I need in a 32-hour day is more daylight lol (when I landed in Tokyo at 16:30, it would have been 02:30 back in Seattle ... time kind of stands still flying east to west).

Passengers were not locked out from un-dimming their windows, but it was insanely bright anytime someone did, and they usually dimmed it again right after.

Yes, I completely understand that. But if I'm on a 15-hour flight, hypothetically, it's unfair to lock down the windows for that entire time. If people need to sleep that desperately for that long, use eye shades.

That's not what happens. On my ten hour JAL flight from Seattle to Tokyo, the windows were dimmed about half the flight (4 to 5 hours), and no one was locked out from dimming control at all during the flight. On the other hand, you'd have to be a massive wanker to un-dim your window during the dimmed period. It's like opening the blinds in a room with darkening curtains.

[Dirt Roads]

The NYC-Charlotte routing via Cleveland makes me wonder if the goal was to spread workload on en-route controllers by routing ZNY-ZOB-ZID-ZTL instead of ZNY-ZDC-ZTL.

Your suspicion is likely correct, but perhaps for an odd reason.  ZDC and ZTL (Atlanta) are getting overly congested because of the number of airlines that are operating overland between the Northeast and Florida, instead of the preferred overseas air lanes.  The FAA recently issued a stern warning to airlines to resume using aircraft properly equipped for Overwater Operations before the uptick in Christmas passengers.  But I suspect that the issue is more than equipment assignments.  Those aircraft need to be properly staffed with personnel certified for overwater emergencies, and it wouldn't surprise me that COVID has prompted airlines and their employees to intentionally allow some of their more intense safety certifications to expire.  Rerouting a JFK -to- CLT flight into the Cleveland and Indy air traffic control zones (probably only over Western Pennsylvania and western West Virginia) appears to be quite a drastic measure, since ZDC also controls a mountainous air lane using high altitude sectors over Moorefield (03) and Marlinton (37), both in eastern West Virginia.  This may be the first of the "drastic measures" promised by the FAA.

Sorry that MMM had to endure this, but I assure you that his adventure was not as bad as the average flight from Raleigh-Durham -to- JFK back between Y2K and 2010.  Back then, it was common to wait four hours on the tarmac at RDU for a slot to open up, then four hours at JFK for a gate to open up.  It was faster to drive to BWI and take Amtrak up.

[MultiMillionMiler]

I'm just grateful that I was off the ground that day and it wasn't canceled. That's all I wanted, even it took 5 hours, I didn't want to have to rebook or cancel. As for the window dimming issue, that's another good reason for the windows to be aligned, so the sunlight only affects you through that window.

[Max Rockatansky]

Unbelievable.

If only it really were unbelievable.

That's sure a lot of flying for someone with aspirations to drive 2,000,000 miles.  But hey, why not buy the entourage holiday flights when you have $29,000 in liquid cash assets?

It's actually 26,000 now, car expenses hot me hard this year. But I rarely fly. My last flight was over 9 years ago. Charlotte was originally going to be a road trip but I changed my mind.

So, all this bouncing around on flights when a trip behind the wheel would have likely taken 10-12 hours to complete depending on when you left.  Had your flight gone to plan how much time would you really have been saving?  Seems like the easier thing to do would have been to get on the road before sunrise (weather permitting) to get out to I-81 and I-77.

[MultiMillionMiler]

Unbelievable.

If only it really were unbelievable.

That's sure a lot of flying for someone with aspirations to drive 2,000,000 miles.  But hey, why not buy the entourage holiday flights when you have $29,000 in liquid cash assets?

It's actually 26,000 now, car expenses hot me hard this year. But I rarely fly. My last flight was over 9 years ago. Charlotte was originally going to be a road trip but I changed my mind.

So, all this bouncing around on flights when a trip behind the wheel would have likely taken 10-12 hours to complete depending on when you left.  Had your flight gone to plan how much time would you really have been saving?  Seems like the easier thing to do would have been to get on the road before sunrise (weather permitting) to get out to I-81 and I-77.

Nah I don't get up early for road trips, but had it gone normally, I would have been there 3:55 ish whereas driving would have taken at least 9 hours. Add in a long half hour rest stop and it may have been 10 hours (I can only go about 6-7 hours of driving right now before needing food/bathroom..etc). My main point in going there wasn't for the driving, it was for riding Fury325.

[Max Rockatansky]

Unbelievable.

If only it really were unbelievable.

That's sure a lot of flying for someone with aspirations to drive 2,000,000 miles.  But hey, why not buy the entourage holiday flights when you have $29,000 in liquid cash assets?

It's actually 26,000 now, car expenses hot me hard this year. But I rarely fly. My last flight was over 9 years ago. Charlotte was originally going to be a road trip but I changed my mind.

So, all this bouncing around on flights when a trip behind the wheel would have likely taken 10-12 hours to complete depending on when you left.  Had your flight gone to plan how much time would you really have been saving?  Seems like the easier thing to do would have been to get on the road before sunrise (weather permitting) to get out to I-81 and I-77.

Nah I don't get up early for road trips, but had it gone normally, I would have been there 3:55 ish whereas driving would have taken at least 9 hours. Add in a long half hour rest stop and it may have been 10 hours (I can only go about 6-7 hours of driving right now before needing food/bathroom..etc). My main point in going there wasn't for the driving, it was for riding Fury325.

Must be nice to not to have to worry about the cost of flights for several people and rental car prices right?  That's a shit load of money that could have been saved simply by planning better and not being lazy about leaving early.  You say you want to drive 2,000,000 miles but you aren't even doing the basics of east coast road trip-101. 

[MultiMillionMiler]

Well I wanted as much time as possible, and with driving there is more of chance something could go wrong, like getting in a minor accident, having car trouble..etc, which could ruin the trip whereas a plane that is less likely (provided the flights not canceled). We didn't use a rental car. We stayed at the Comfort Inn at the park in South Carolina, less than half a mile from carowinds, and just walked. Good exercise. Besides gas prices were peaking around that time (although airline prices weren't the best either). One thing that was nice at the end of the flight though, was our cab driver going 96+ mph on I-485 and I-77 going to the hotel. 650 miles by road would have been hard to do in 1 day, and I wanted to get there the first day. I only went with my dad, so it wasn't that unaffordable.

[Max Rockatansky]

And all those minor inconveniences were worth getting your parents to pay an extra $1,500-$2,000?  Did you witness them commit a murder and hold all the evidence in a secure location?  How gracious of you to allow them to walk to the park and not get a rental car.  How much did that cab fare end up being?

[MultiMillionMiler]

And all those minor inconveniences were worth getting your parents to pay an extra $1,500-$2,000?  Did you witness them commit a murder and hold all the evidence in a secure location?  How gracious of you to allow them to walk to the park and not get a rental car.  How much did that cab fare end up being?

The whole trip was barely $1200-$1300 total, what are you talking about? I payed for the airfare myself, and it was like a little college graduation present I treated myself to, why are you so obsessed with my financial habits? Maybe it was $800 more than driving, at most. Like I am really going to drive 10 hours instead of flying 2, just so we don't have to walk .4 miles? My dad wouldn't have preferred a 10 hour drive anyway, he's not a road geek like me. And I could have done the trip myself but my dad came to help with practical things like credit card payments/babysitting belongings at the park, since he himself can't tolerate rollercoasters much. My parents had nothing against it. What's the big deal? I don't spend much on anything else anyway.

[Scott5114]

hot me hard

this isn't that type of website, gosh

[thspfc]

hot me hard

this isn't that type of website, gosh

Until Elon buys it.

Can we all get a cut of the sale?

[MultiMillionMiler]

Typo corrected, is it just me, or is hitting o instead of i, the most common typo on a smartphone? That's something that bothers me a little. Autocorrect only works when it tries to correct a word you're trying to type but it doesn't recognize, but doesn't change 1 letter when you need it.

[Scott5114]

I seem to have the most problem with R/E for some reason.

[Big John]

Facebook just started auto-playing videos on my phone.  I had to dig into my controls to turn that off.

[Max Rockatansky]

And all those minor inconveniences were worth getting your parents to pay an extra $1,500-$2,000?  Did you witness them commit a murder and hold all the evidence in a secure location?  How gracious of you to allow them to walk to the park and not get a rental car.  How much did that cab fare end up being?

The whole trip was barely $1200-$1300 total, what are you talking about? I payed for the airfare myself, and it was like a little college graduation present I treated myself to, why are you so obsessed with my financial habits? Maybe it was $800 more than driving, at most. Like I am really going to drive 10 hours instead of flying 2, just so we don't have to walk .4 miles? My dad wouldn't have preferred a 10 hour drive anyway, he's not a road geek like me. And I could have done the trip myself but my dad came to help with practical things like credit card payments/babysitting belongings at the park, since he himself can't tolerate rollercoasters much. My parents had nothing against it. What's the big deal? I don't spend much on anything else anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not say your parents savings contributed heavily to by your current savings?  Perhaps if you hadn't claimed Gen-Z angst (lack of empathy) while you had 29k sitting the bank you wouldn't have painted such a target on your back. 

But yeah, way to invest into your financial future blowing $1,300 on a trip when you could be reinvesting into your "career"  which you haven't begun pursuing for "reasons."   Like I've said before, must be nice at your age to basically carry zero responsibility and the funds to do what you want anyways.  No wonder you've made a habit of telling all of us "how it really is"  since you've been on this forum.