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NOLA gets grant to study possible teardown of I-10 over Claiborne

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The only people mainly in support of this idea are developers, urban planners, and transplants.

Reviving this old thread because tearing down the Claiborne is still being discussed and I think keeping the thread together is better than two separate threads. This article shows many still want the Claiborne Expressway gone. I personally think it will be torn down when it comes up for a complete rebuild because the neighborhood won't allow anything else. This discussion is from the Central States discussion of tearing down the I-244 through the Greenwood neighborhood in Tulsa (which I am opposed to because it's part of a larger highway).

--- Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 15, 2022, 12:34:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: skluth on December 14, 2022, 11:57:34 AM ---
--- Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 13, 2022, 02:35:10 PM ---More of this stupid talk:

Even worse is I-10 through New Orleans. That freeway is extremely important and needs to be rebuilt.

--- End quote ---
I-244 through Tulsa is part of a larger through routing from the Sand Springs Expressway to the Crosstown Expressway and acts much like US 75/I-345 in Dallas. The entire corridor should have been built a bit further north originally but now that the entire system is built its removal would be a huge and costly mistake.

OTOH, I-10 through New Orleans is redundant, destroyed and continues to negatively affect a neighborhood, and won't be rebuilt because the cost to rebuild it is less than its removal. It's a cost v benefits and the few benefits are vastly outweighed by the cost, both economically and the city environment. Only the few who whine that it adds a few minutes to their commute think it's important. Everything between Elysian Fields and the Superdome could be removed. It won't fix Iberville and Treme but it will make it better for the locals (though they'll whine about the inevitable gentrification).  But that discussion belongs in Mid-South, not here.

--- End quote ---

"Redundant", MY ASS.

The Claiborne Elevated is the ONLY direct freeway connection between downtown New Orleans, the French Quarter, the Superdome, and the Medical Center district, and New Orleans East. It also serves as the primary connection from New Orleans East to the Westbank Expressway via the Crescent City Connection.

To remove it and divert traffic up the Ponchatrain Expressway to I-610 would not only NOT service the major traffic that serves that area from NOLA East, but it would add additional problems to the surface level Claiborne Avenue, especially if proponents of the freeway teardown propose to keep it at a 4-lane boulevard.

In addition, there are many residents of Treme who oppose any teardown because of fears that any redevelopment will be exploited by business and real estate developers to remove current residences of that community in the name of "urban renewal".

No, DO NOT TEAR DOWN the Claiborne Elevated. Instead, do as what is being done with the I-49 Lafayette Connector and incorporate CSS and neighborhood integration into any rebuild. THAT makes more sense than putting 144K VPD of traffic onto to a 4-lane boulevard and already pressed city streets.

(If you want to move this to Mid-South, mods, that would be fine with me.)

And, I oppose tearing down I-244 in Tulsa for the same reason. Major critical freeway arterials should not be removed just for the feelz of New Urbanists and the myopic desire to restore the past.

--- End quote ---

There's a lot more room to build a freeway through Lafayette, I-49 through Lafayette is a lot less destructive environmentally than a bypass and it looks like working with the local residents has resulted in a good compromise. I'm fine with I-49 through Lafayette.

OTOH, the Claiborne Expressway is an eyesore that divides a neighborhood and mostly serves people just passing through. You are apparently one of them. There is no good way to incorporate a new elevated highway for a rebuild; a tunnel would be a disaster should another Katrina happen and there is no other place to put it. Traffic can continue to get to the Superdome via the Pontchartrain Expressway so you're statement that it's the only way is an absolute lie. It will take drivers a few more minutes to get there. That's all.

Claiming the locals are against its removal is bullfeathers. Yes, some are concerned about the possibility of gentrification, but they'll still take the removal of the highway and fight the gentrification when that happens.

Totally disagree.

You can simply redeck the existing viaduct structure as is and reinforce the existing supports to extend the life of the structures.

To say that it's "bullfeathers" that there is opposition to tearing it down is itself bullfeathers. The original plan to remove the Claiborne Elevated got some opposition from Treme residents who complained that the real motive of the proponents was to redevelop the neighborhood for gentrification and removal of its current residents. And, of course, there is strong opposition from business interests and residents of New Orleans East and others who rely on the structure for direct access to Downtown destinations from NOLA east and northeast.

The only way that a teardown would be even feasible would be if there was a way to connect the Westbank Expressway at Algiers to cross the Mississippi River near Chalmette and connect with I-510/LA 47 to create a semi-loop bypass; that would allow for an alternative route that could provide access to NOLA East without stressing current I-10.

Other than that, however. a rebuild is far better than simply removing it and bringing on chaos with 120K VPD being transferred onto a 4-lane boulevard and forced to endure already burdened city streets.

Keep the Claiborne Elevated, but use CSS and neighborhood input to better incorporate it into community development.


--- Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 15, 2022, 08:48:33 PM ---The only way that a teardown would be even feasible would be if there was a way to connect the Westbank Expressway at Algiers to cross the Mississippi River near Chalmette and connect with I-510/LA 47 to create a semi-loop bypass; that would allow for an alternative route that could provide access to NOLA East without stressing current I-10.

--- End quote ---

Disagree, as I believe you and I argued 12 years ago.  I believe a Claiborne removal is feasible WITHOUT a Mississippi River crossing, but it would require a total rebuild of 610, including the 10/610 interchanges on either side, as well as some improvements to existing 10 between Lakewood and the Superdome.

The junction of I-10 and the Westbank Expressway by the Superdome and Smoothie King Center arena is a major vehicle traffic hub. Removing the elevated I-10 structure East of the Superdome up to I-610 would dramatically worsen surface street traffic issues.

Removal of the 1-10 Claiborne Viaduct would be more feasible if New Orleans' surface street network was not such a badly outdated design.

The surface street grid in New Orleans is tightly packed, almost like that of an old European city. There is literally nothing in terms of filtering to limit local neighborhood access to the main surface arterial streets -kind of like what you see in newer American cities and affluent suburbs. In New Orleans the freeways are the only roads that have any kind of express functions. All the other streets are pure stoplight hell.

This problem is compounded by New Orleans not having much in the way of mass transit options. The famous street car line covers only a limited part of downtown and Canal Street going Northwest. The city bus system is the only other option. No one gets a thrill riding a city bus. If there was money to build a new light rail network across the Greater New Orleans area I'm not sure where the lines could be built since all the developed areas in the city are densely developed. Such a thing would likely have to be built mostly on elevated structures down the middle of freeways or main surface streets.

If the Claiborne Viaduct was removed they would not only have to do serious improvements to I-610, but they would also have to improve I-10 from the West split with I-610 down to the Superdome. It doesn't look like there is any room to spare for widening either I-610 or that West half of the I-10 triangle.


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