AARoads Forum

Eh, I'm not really sure how to word the title, but I think I did alright. This thread is meant to track the current proposals as well as updates to them regarding moves by individual states to increase the budgets for their respective DOT's for road and freeway funding. I wouldn't mind mass transit either, but that seems better to be tracked in a separate thread.

Michigan has a proposal to increase the gas tax by 45 cents raising an additional 2 billion a year or so. It's phased out to increase over a 9 year period.

https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/3057483002

Alabama has a measure to increase theirs by 10 cents a gallon.

http://rebuildalabama.com

I'm generally supportive of these from what I know but I'm not very optimistic. Alabama due to the conservative nature of the state and Michigan because of how high the proposed tax is. Other than California's, would this qualify as one of the largest fuel tax increase proposals in the US?

I know Kentucky has legislation proposing a gas tax and vehicle registration increase, but not sure offhand what the level is.  There is also a forum regular who is very opposed to it on Facebook.

Minnesota's new governor has suggested a gas tax hike, but given the state legislature's makeup it likely won't go anywhere where Republicans in the state senate are eager to use it as a political weapon.

Wisconsin's new governor proposed a 8-cent gas tax increase, but is also unlikely to go anywhere with the opposing party controlling the legislature.
https://www.wpr.org/gov-tony-evers-calls-gas-tax-increase-first-budget

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 04, 2019, 07:40:50 PM
Alabama has a measure to increase theirs by 10 cents a gallon.

http://rebuildalabama.com

It actually has some bi-partisan support, but whether one infrastructure plan is the same as the others' still needs to hammered out.

Quote
I'm generally supportive of these from what I know but I'm not very optimistic. Alabama due to the conservative nature of the state and Michigan because of how high the proposed tax is. Other than California's, would this qualify as one of the largest fuel tax increase proposals in the US?

If I remember correctly, Florida had a state gas tax increase of 15 cents per gallon effective on January 1, 1994. The day before was the last time I'd ever see 0.999/gal fuel.

NY has just been borrowing more money against income tax revenue (Personal Income Tax or "PIT" Bonds).  The amount borrowed overall since the practice started is quite substantial and has more recently gone towards megaprojects.

(personal opinion emphasized)

CT's proposal can pretty much be summed up in 1 word (times 53 locations): T O L L S

Quote from: froggie on March 04, 2019, 08:28:37 PM
I know Kentucky has legislation proposing a gas tax and vehicle registration increase, but not sure offhand what the level is.  There is also a forum regular who is very opposed to it on Facebook.

A dime a gallon, plus a huge increase in fees including nearly doubling the annual registration cost for passenger vehicles, a substantial increase in motorcycle registration, and a bunch of other fees that I can't recall offhand. Of course I'm opposed to it. I may be a roadgeek and a DOT employee, but I'm a taxpayer first and foremost.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 04, 2019, 07:38:23 PM
Michigan has a proposal to increase the gas tax by 45 cents raising an additional 2 billion a year or so. It's phased out to increase over a 9 year period.

https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/3057483002

Michigan's proposed increase is more than Kentucky's total. Insanity.

^ As I recall, you were asked, in light of your opposition to the gas tax/registration fee increase, how you would proposed to pay for new transportation infrastructure and improvements to existing infrastructure, given that the need far exceeds available revenue.  I don't recall seeing a response, though.

Even with a 45¢ increase, the gas taxes would still be less than most other developed nations.

There's also a misconception that user fees are a majority of transportation funding when generally it's about 20-30%. Simply increasing gas taxes is a band aid fix.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2019, 01:28:47 PM
There's also a misconception that user fees are a majority of transportation funding when generally it's about 20-30%.

Maybe such needs to be fixed first.

Ohio's new Governor has proposed an 18 cent gas tax increase

Quote from: froggie on March 05, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
^ As I recall, you were asked, in light of your opposition to the gas tax/registration fee increase, how you would proposed to pay for new transportation infrastructure and improvements to existing infrastructure, given that the need far exceeds available revenue.  I don't recall seeing a response, though.

No, I hadn't responded to that yet, but my general answer would be prioritization (I don't like the current prioritization model Kentucky's using, as it gives to the "haves" while continuing to ignore the "have nots", and have expressed my opinion about it in the past) and elimination of regulations and bureaucracy. I'm convinced that about 20 percent of the administrative costs KYTC faces comes from federal regulation compliance.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 05, 2019, 04:02:02 PM
No, I hadn't responded to that yet, but my general answer would be prioritization (I don't like the current prioritization model Kentucky's using, as it gives to the "haves" while continuing to ignore the "have nots", and have expressed my opinion about it in the past) and elimination of regulations and bureaucracy. I'm convinced that about 20 percent of the administrative costs KYTC faces comes from federal regulation compliance.

Ah yes, Regulations: The Source of All Evil™

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 05, 2019, 04:04:55 PM
Ah yes, Regulations: The Source of All Evil™

Regulation being beneficial or necessary does not mean that all regulations are beneficial or necessary.

Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2019, 04:08:02 PM

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 05, 2019, 04:04:55 PM
Ah yes, Regulations: The Source of All Evil™

Regulation being beneficial or necessary does not mean that all regulations are beneficial or necessary.

Obviously. But you wouldn't know that from the way certain people speak of them as though they're swear words.

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 05, 2019, 04:23:23 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2019, 04:08:02 PM

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 05, 2019, 04:04:55 PM
Ah yes, Regulations: The Source of All Evil

Regulation being beneficial or necessary does not mean that all regulations are beneficial or necessary.

Obviously. But you wouldn't know that from the way certain people speak of them as though they're swear words.

^This.  As much as I suspect some collusion in certain contract bids, I know it would be much, much worse if regulations were relaxed.

Quote from: Rothman on March 05, 2019, 05:10:21 PM

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 05, 2019, 04:23:23 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2019, 04:08:02 PM

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 05, 2019, 04:04:55 PM
Ah yes, Regulations: The Source of All Evil

Regulation being beneficial or necessary does not mean that all regulations are beneficial or necessary.

Obviously. But you wouldn't know that from the way certain people speak of them as though they're swear words.

^This.  As much as I suspect some collusion in certain contract bids, I know it would be much, much worse if regulations were relaxed.

OK, here's an example. We're probably all aware of DBE set-asides, which are federal requirements. I'm philosophically opposed to this type of thing, and there's lots of room for abuse. (There was one instance in Kentucky about 20 years ago when a guardrail company with connections to the governor at the time set up a dummy subsidiary with a female CEO to become eligible for DBE contracts.)

Turns out that the KYTC office that certifies DBE participants for highway contracts also certifies them for all state government contracts where DBE set-asides are required. If it's someone hanging drywall for a new dormitory at the University of Kentucky, they've been certified by KYTC. Eliminate the DBE program and the state could probably save $300,000 alone on salaries, plus other administrative costs.

How many environmental hoops, with associated costs, do states have to jump through? Can anyone say with a straight face that significant harm was done because Tennessee built US 23 (now I-26) using its state guidelines and not the federal guidelines?

Quote from: hbelkins on March 06, 2019, 11:22:52 AM
OK, here's an example. We're probably all aware of DBE set-asides, which are federal requirements. I'm philosophically opposed to this type of thing, and there's lots of room for abuse. (There was one instance in Kentucky about 20 years ago when a guardrail company with connections to the governor at the time set up a dummy subsidiary with a female CEO to become eligible for DBE contracts.)

Turns out that the KYTC office that certifies DBE participants for highway contracts also certifies them for all state government contracts where DBE set-asides are required. If it's someone hanging drywall for a new dormitory at the University of Kentucky, they've been certified by KYTC. Eliminate the DBE program and the state could probably save $300,000 alone on salaries, plus other administrative costs.

$300,000 is chump change for state government. This is embodiment of the penny-wise, pound-foolish type of thinking.

And if it's that easy to game the system, de-regulation isn't going to solve anything. In fact, it's likely to make abuses and corruption worse.

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 06, 2019, 11:31:58 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 06, 2019, 11:22:52 AM
OK, here's an example. We're probably all aware of DBE set-asides, which are federal requirements. I'm philosophically opposed to this type of thing, and there's lots of room for abuse. (There was one instance in Kentucky about 20 years ago when a guardrail company with connections to the governor at the time set up a dummy subsidiary with a female CEO to become eligible for DBE contracts.)

Turns out that the KYTC office that certifies DBE participants for highway contracts also certifies them for all state government contracts where DBE set-asides are required. If it's someone hanging drywall for a new dormitory at the University of Kentucky, they've been certified by KYTC. Eliminate the DBE program and the state could probably save $300,000 alone on salaries, plus other administrative costs.

$300,000 is chump change for state government. This is embodiment of the penny-wise, pound-foolish type of thinking.

And if it's that easy to game the system, de-regulation isn't going to solve anything. In fact, it's likely to make abuses and corruption worse.

Right.  And, in any matter, regulations were imposed at the public's request, one way or another.  To relax DBE and environmental regulations would lead to a political storm that few would want to instigate.

Take the ADA mandate from the Department of Justice requiring curb ramps be upgraded in resurfacing contracts, for example.  Such work would otherwise be WAY beyond the scope of a typical resurfacing job, and as such is more than doubles the cost if there are a significant number of ramps in the project area (to the point where many municipalities are no longer paving streets with deficient ramps, at least not in election years), making it an unfunded mandate.  On the other hand, the reason this mandate happened is because very little progress was being made in upgrading pedestrian infrastructure even though the ADA law is slightly older than I am.

Meanwhile, in DBE/MBE land, the regulation does lead to a strange incentive - there are DBE/MBE designated contractors who pick up a lot of work being a token subcontractor on a larger job, and they sometimes refuse work because they'd otherwise lose DBE/MBE status - defeating the entire purpose of the regulation in the first place.

IMO what we need is not less regulation, but smarter regulation, so that it has as little imposition as is possible and still do its job, and so loopholes can't be exploited.

(personal opinion)

Alabama's gas tax seems to have passed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Illinois has a proposal to bring an additional two billion dollars to spend.

Ohio has passed theirs:

https://newsline.artba.org/2019/04/03/ohio-passes-865-million-transportation-investment-package/?utm_source=ARTBA+Newsline&utm_campaign=50f0509304-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_04_04_07_35&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d231524896-50f0509304-156204193&mc_cid=50f0509304&mc_eid=ce479006f9

^ and got rid of the front license plate while they were at it

Quote from: Buck87 on April 06, 2019, 09:20:48 PM
^ and got rid of the front license plate while they were at it

Seems like a good idea. I used to be for two license plates but after considering everything I changed my mind.

A gas tax increase and registration fee increase was passed in Tennessee last year.  Luckily those legislators in the House that spearheaded the issue are gone.  Barry Doss and Timothy Wirgau both lost their respective primary bids.  The public said no to the gas tax increase.  Barry Doss was the Chairman of the House Transportation Committee and had the juice to kill the tax.  He did the opposite and paid the price of losing the race.

Both my Senator and Representative were no votes.  They are very much appreciated.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on April 07, 2019, 05:28:14 PM
A gas tax increase and registration fee increase was passed in Tennessee last year.  Luckily those legislators in the House that spearheaded the issue are gone.  Barry Doss and Timothy Wirgau both lost their respective primary bids.  The public said no to the gas tax increase.  Barry Doss was the Chairman of the House Transportation Committee and had the juice to kill the tax.  He did the opposite and paid the price of losing the race.

Both my Senator and Representative were no votes.  They are very much appreciated.

Why?

Quote from: Rothman on April 07, 2019, 07:35:59 PM

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on April 07, 2019, 05:28:14 PM
A gas tax increase and registration fee increase was passed in Tennessee last year.  Luckily those legislators in the House that spearheaded the issue are gone.  Barry Doss and Timothy Wirgau both lost their respective primary bids.  The public said no to the gas tax increase.  Barry Doss was the Chairman of the House Transportation Committee and had the juice to kill the tax.  He did the opposite and paid the price of losing the race.

Both my Senator and Representative were no votes.  They are very much appreciated.

Why?

Probably because he, like me doesn't want gas prices to go up any more than they already are. Gas is up 50-60 cents, or more, here in Kentucky over what it was just a couple of months ago. Thankfully the gas tax increase and vehicle registration fee increase that was introduced in Kentucky's legislature went nowhere this year. The fact that Republicans introduced the tax and fee increase legislation is absolutely astonishing to me. The sponsor and proponents certainly heard from their constituents over it.

Gas here is $2.799, and it tends to run much higher than other places in Kentucky. Thankfully it's still $2.599 where I work, 25 miles away, and I can fill up there, but if it gets much higher I'm going to go into "no discretionary travel"  and "put in neutral and coast down hills" modes.

Although I abhor gas tax revenues being raided for other purposes besides transportation improvements and understand why gas tax increases are so politically unpopular, I would also think that they would be one area where the public should see the sharpest effects of getting what they pay for.

Quote from: Rothman on April 07, 2019, 10:57:37 PM
Although I abhor gas tax revenues being raided for other purposes besides transportation improvements and understand why gas tax increases are so politically unpopular, I would also think that they would be one area where the public should see the sharpest effects of getting what they pay for.

Because people, in general, have trouble thinking long term. If it isn't an ideological opposition to raising taxes, it's because in the immediate term, a gas tax raise hurts their wallet. They under-appreciate the benefit over the long term. There's also the dreaded problem of construction, which is another shortsighted complaint that so many people love to make.

22 cent gas tax increase proposed for Louisiana(they need it!!!)

QuoteBATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — A Louisiana coalition of contractors and others intends to push a $300 million annual state gasoline tax hike in next year's legislative session.

Republican Rep. Jack McFarland will sponsor the legislation to address a $14 billion backlog of road and bridge work. McFarland noted that Texas, Mississippi and Arkansas have boosted gas taxes to invest in roadwork.

The most recent push to increase the gas tax died in 2017 because of intense opposition. Lawmakers said their constituents have told them they are not interested in paying more at the pump.

Louisiana motorists pay 38.4 cents per gallon in gasoline taxes. The proposal would raise that 22 cents.

- https://www.klfy.com/louisiana/lawmaker-proposes-22-cents-gas-hike-in-louisiana/

A 9 cent increase on fuel tax is proposed for Wyoming:

QuoteMembers of the Joint Revenue Committee advanced a proposal to increase the state's current 24 cent fuel tax by 9 cents Thursday, making it one of just a handful of revenue-raising proposals to escape the committee this interim session.

Backed by state agencies as well as several industry groups, the nine cent tax increase is projected to raise approximately $60 million in funds for local governments as well as the Wyoming Department of Transportation, which is currently grappling with a $136 million gap in funding and few options to raise revenue.

https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/revenue-committee-advances-9-cent-fuel-tax-increase-weighs-potential-tobacco-tax-hike/article_d68b7fd5-43e5-55bb-b7fd-90a0655a8ec8.html

Bill filed in Missouri to eventually raise the gas tax from 17 to 27 cents a gallon.

https://www.emissourian.com/schatz-files-bills-to-increase-states-gas-tax/article_743d9a3c-40ae-11eb-a47b-8f776b3ae994.html

I need to do a better job at keeping this thread updated as there has been tons of proposals to increase budgets with several defeats as well.

Louisiana looks poised to divert auto sales taxes to fund road projects which seems like a no brainer. They also need all the help they can to upgrade their roads.

https://bossierpress.com/louisiana-house-votes-to-divert-auto-sales-taxes-to-road-construction/

Colorado plans on adding over 5 billion to their 10 year road budget which is sorely needed:

https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/local-politics/colorado-transportation-bill-polis/73-65b2184d-0f54-49f5-a303-af996edb502e

I wish they would file a bill to repeal the tax increase.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 06, 2021, 08:29:29 AM
I wish they would file a bill to repeal the tax increase.

Nah, if anything more is needed.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 06, 2021, 08:37:34 AM

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 06, 2021, 08:29:29 AM
I wish they would file a bill to repeal the tax increase.

Nah, if anything more is needed.

Agreed!

Colorado has increased its funding though I'm not thrilled with some of the allocations. More information here:

https://landline.media/colorado-senate-passes-3-8-billion-transportation-funding-bill/

Missouri's gas tax increase update:

QuoteThe Secretary of State's Office is now accepting comments on a referendum petition filed to place the recently-passed gas tax hike before voters before it can be implemented.

Jeremy Cady, state director of Americans For Prosperity-Missouri (AFP) filed the referendum petition with the Secretary of State's Office Friday seeking to put the recently-passed legislation gradually increasing the state's gas tax to a vote of the people. The petition suggests placing the proposal on the Nov. 8, 2022 ballot – more than a year after the first increase would take place.

From Senate President Pro Tem Dave Schatz, the legislation would increase Missouri's fuel tax by 2.5 cents annually beginning in October – bumping it up to 29.5 cents from 17 cents by 2025. The funds would go toward fixing the state's roads and bridges and includes a rebate option for drivers. The Senate bill was approved by the General Assembly during the final week of session and awaits action by the governor.

- read more here: https://themissouritimes.com/missouri-gas-tax-increase-could-be-left-up-to-voters-if-new-referendum-is-successful/

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2021, 11:50:40 AMColorado has increased its funding though I'm not thrilled with some of the allocations. More information here:

https://landline.media/colorado-senate-passes-3-8-billion-transportation-funding-bill/

You're not alone; there's something to disappoint everyone in it. Even aside from the conflicting goals of 'we should fund roads' and 'we should not fund roads,' the bill's use of "fees" rather than "taxes" brings up more issues.

Tax increases in Colorado must be voted on, but some fees can be set without a vote. Last year, a ballot measure passed that restricted the options for levying fees without a vote, but this bill was written to try to avoid the restrictions. (There's more to it, but those are some broad strokes.)

I'm not sure how far it's been developed now, but there's a ballot measure in the works to reduce the existing gas tax by some amount to counter the new gas fee (CBS4 (https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/05/10/colorado-lawmakers-gas-fee-ballot-lower-gas-tax/) / 9News (https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/73-a6e8ca6a-1c97-4a59-a05e-1b31cd69e96f) / DBJ (paywall) (https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2021/04/26/conservative-groups-propose-gas-tax-cut.html)).

Missouri gas tax increase bill moves forward being sent to the governors desk but he has yet to sign it and according to this article he doesn't have long to veto it until it becomes law.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/missouri/parson-vetting-gas-tax-hike-ok-d-by-missouri-lawmakers/article_c0419bbe-e02b-11eb-971b-c39451ae8ad0.html

Louisiana gets additional(much needed) money:

https://www.kadn.com/content/news/300-Million-dollars-to-be-spent-on-road-and-bridge-improvements-across-Louisiana-574792911.html

Voters brought enough pressure on Kentucky's legislature this year that they didn't even consider a rumored gas tax increase. Score one for the good guys, but no doubt they'll try again.

The electorate here is already in a mood to replace RINOs over their failure to impeach the governor over his mishandling of the covid situation, and their failure to pass more restrictive laws to rein in his emergency powers, and next year is both an election year and a biennial budget legislative session year, so it's doubtful a gas tax increase will pass next year either.

And there's really no need, despite the lobbying from the establishment Republicans and the highway contractors. News came out today that the Road Fund is raking in more money, and there's lots of pressure being brought for more responsible spending (eliminating single-bid contracts that exceed estimates, breaking up the asphalt companies' territorial monopolies, etc.).

If gas stays as expensive as it is here, the public will be in no mood to tolerate any artificial price increases.

Minnesota made significant increases to motorcycle endorsement and license plate renewal fees, both of which go into the transportation fund.

https://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/comm/docs/DIXsR-o3lUOeH3pjFQXTYA.pdf#page=47

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 09, 2021, 02:15:05 PM
... significant increases to ... license plate renewal fees ...

That's one of my biggest pet peeves.  It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get a little bitty sticker in the mail.

Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2021, 02:20:03 PM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 09, 2021, 02:15:05 PM
... significant increases to ... license plate renewal fees ...

That's one of my biggest pet peeves.  It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get a little bitty sticker in the mail.

The big increases were to plate replacements, which MN requires every 7 years of a vehicle's life - those went up around $8. Stickers went up by 25 cents.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 09, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
Voters brought enough pressure on Kentucky's legislature this year that they didn't even consider a rumored gas tax increase. Score one for the good guys, but no doubt they'll try again.

The electorate here is already in a mood to replace RINOs over their failure to impeach the governor over his mishandling of the covid situation, and their failure to pass more restrictive laws to rein in his emergency powers, and next year is both an election year and a biennial budget legislative session year, so it's doubtful a gas tax increase will pass next year either.

And there's really no need, despite the lobbying from the establishment Republicans and the highway contractors. News came out today that the Road Fund is raking in more money, and there's lots of pressure being brought for more responsible spending (eliminating single-bid contracts that exceed estimates, breaking up the asphalt companies' territorial monopolies, etc.).

If gas stays as expensive as it is here, the public will be in no mood to tolerate any artificial price increases.

Got the poll data to back this characterization up?

Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2021, 02:26:13 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 09, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
Voters brought enough pressure on Kentucky's legislature this year that they didn't even consider a rumored gas tax increase. Score one for the good guys, but no doubt they'll try again.

The electorate here is already in a mood to replace RINOs over their failure to impeach the governor over his mishandling of the covid situation, and their failure to pass more restrictive laws to rein in his emergency powers, and next year is both an election year and a biennial budget legislative session year, so it's doubtful a gas tax increase will pass next year either.

And there's really no need, despite the lobbying from the establishment Republicans and the highway contractors. News came out today that the Road Fund is raking in more money, and there's lots of pressure being brought for more responsible spending (eliminating single-bid contracts that exceed estimates, breaking up the asphalt companies' territorial monopolies, etc.).

If gas stays as expensive as it is here, the public will be in no mood to tolerate any artificial price increases.

Got the poll data to back this characterization up?

Please don't go down this political road. I know it's hard to separate politics from taxes but discussion of RINOs crosses a line.

Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2021, 02:26:13 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 09, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
Voters brought enough pressure on Kentucky's legislature this year that they didn't even consider a rumored gas tax increase. Score one for the good guys, but no doubt they'll try again.

The electorate here is already in a mood to replace RINOs over their failure to impeach the governor over his mishandling of the covid situation, and their failure to pass more restrictive laws to rein in his emergency powers, and next year is both an election year and a biennial budget legislative session year, so it's doubtful a gas tax increase will pass next year either.

And there's really no need, despite the lobbying from the establishment Republicans and the highway contractors. News came out today that the Road Fund is raking in more money, and there's lots of pressure being brought for more responsible spending (eliminating single-bid contracts that exceed estimates, breaking up the asphalt companies' territorial monopolies, etc.).

If gas stays as expensive as it is here, the public will be in no mood to tolerate any artificial price increases.

Got the poll data to back this characterization up?

I'm not aware of the gas tax specifically being polled, but I could probably find the press release online that came out today regarding revenue increases.

Pennsylvania's Transportation Revenue Options Commission is considering recommending a package fee in its report due next month. This would involve a small fee placed on package deliveries (such as by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc.) with revenues going to PennDOT. Such a fee has the potential to raise several hundred million dollars per year, depending on the exact amount of the fee.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/07/11/PennDOT-delivery-fee-Amazon-transportation-funding/stories/202107110045


*This is not, as far as I'm aware, in a bill currently before the legislature, but is likely to be if it's included in the TROC's report, along with other options to be recommended. I'm listing it here as I'm sure other states will pursue this idea in the near future.

Quote from: Crown Victoria on July 11, 2021, 11:59:59 AM
Pennsylvania's Transportation Revenue Options Commission is considering recommending a package fee in its report due next month. This would involve a small fee placed on package deliveries (such as by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc.) with revenues going to PennDOT. Such a fee has the potential to raise several hundred million dollars per year, depending on the exact amount of the fee.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/07/11/PennDOT-delivery-fee-Amazon-transportation-funding/stories/202107110045


*This is not, as far as I'm aware, in a bill currently before the legislature, but is likely to be if it's included in the TROC's report, along with other options to be recommended. I'm listing it here as I'm sure other states will pursue this idea in the near future.

Do any other states have this kind of fee? I can see it being challenged in court as being interstate commerce, and thus subject to regulation by Congress instead of an individual state. And naturally, those fees will be passed on the consumer instead of being absorbed by the shippers. I can see this pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations. Now that states can charge sales tax on eBay purchases, even if the businesses don't have a physical presence in those states, there's no advantage to buying online if you have to pay shipping fees unless the price is drastically lower than you can find it in a store.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2021, 03:59:51 PM

Quote from: Crown Victoria on July 11, 2021, 11:59:59 AM
Pennsylvania's Transportation Revenue Options Commission is considering recommending a package fee in its report due next month. This would involve a small fee placed on package deliveries (such as by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc.) with revenues going to PennDOT. Such a fee has the potential to raise several hundred million dollars per year, depending on the exact amount of the fee.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/07/11/PennDOT-delivery-fee-Amazon-transportation-funding/stories/202107110045


*This is not, as far as I'm aware, in a bill currently before the legislature, but is likely to be if it's included in the TROC's report, along with other options to be recommended. I'm listing it here as I'm sure other states will pursue this idea in the near future.

Do any other states have this kind of fee? I can see it being challenged in court as being interstate commerce, and thus subject to regulation by Congress instead of an individual state. And naturally, those fees will be passed on the consumer instead of being absorbed by the shippers. I can see this pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations. Now that states can charge sales tax on eBay purchases, even if the businesses don't have a physical presence in those states, there's no advantage to buying online if you have to pay shipping fees unless the price is drastically lower than you can find it in a store.

A package delivery fee was included in Colorado's recent transportation funding bill. They are the first, to my knowledge, to establish such a levy. No doubt the constitutionality of such a fee will be challenged in short order, however I believe it will survive, as it's a fee on a service (deliveries) and it's only charged on those within Colorado. As for the effect such a fee will have on the brick-and-mortar locations, even if deliveries are a tad more expensive, the convenience of not having to leave home will keep people ordering online.

Quote from: Crown Victoria on July 11, 2021, 09:27:11 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2021, 03:59:51 PM

Quote from: Crown Victoria on July 11, 2021, 11:59:59 AM
Pennsylvania's Transportation Revenue Options Commission is considering recommending a package fee in its report due next month. This would involve a small fee placed on package deliveries (such as by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc.) with revenues going to PennDOT. Such a fee has the potential to raise several hundred million dollars per year, depending on the exact amount of the fee.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/07/11/PennDOT-delivery-fee-Amazon-transportation-funding/stories/202107110045


*This is not, as far as I'm aware, in a bill currently before the legislature, but is likely to be if it's included in the TROC's report, along with other options to be recommended. I'm listing it here as I'm sure other states will pursue this idea in the near future.

Do any other states have this kind of fee? I can see it being challenged in court as being interstate commerce, and thus subject to regulation by Congress instead of an individual state. And naturally, those fees will be passed on the consumer instead of being absorbed by the shippers. I can see this pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations. Now that states can charge sales tax on eBay purchases, even if the businesses don't have a physical presence in those states, there's no advantage to buying online if you have to pay shipping fees unless the price is drastically lower than you can find it in a store.

A package delivery fee was included in Colorado's recent transportation funding bill. They are the first, to my knowledge, to establish such a levy. No doubt the constitutionality of such a fee will be challenged in short order, however I believe it will survive, as it's a fee on a service (deliveries) and it's only charged on those within Colorado. As for the effect such a fee will have on the brick-and-mortar locations, even if deliveries are a tad more expensive, the convenience of not having to leave home will keep people ordering online.

"the convenience of not having to leave home will keep people ordering online"
Its not nearly that simple.

eCommerce enjoyed decades of preferential policy treatment, and mostly competed on price in a race to the bottom to match falling real wages. If not having to leave home was the real issue catalogs would have been far more popular than they were. Leaving home is not the issue, most people would prefer to have a great selection of same day, merchandise in your hand options, but when you race to the bottom and only price matters that goes out the window.

I am quite happy to have package delivery fees, etc. assessed, in fact I would prefer we reverse the sales tax treatment so that only online sales are taxed, ie. the opposite of the failed policies that distorted the market in the first place.

It could be determined that it is a restraint of interstate commerce.  However, the SCOTUS has also allowed sales tax collection on interstate sales as well.  I could see a challenge to this.  If they just increase the sale tax then they already have a pre cleared avenue for additional collection.  If the fee is added on the front end to the company they will no doubt challenge.  They will, however, pass the additional fee collection in the interim to all consumers regardless of location by raising the price of said goods. 

I do see an argument that the states could raise the increase of of goods flowing through the state with the increase of costs associated with said goods taxing the roadways, etc.  However, I could see the counterargument wherein the increase of sales via internet doesn't really add to the net increase of goods flowing into the state, it just shifts the patterns around.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2021, 03:59:51 PM
I can see this pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations.

I can't see anything pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations.  People will pay the extra money.

Quote from: HighwayStar on July 11, 2021, 09:46:28 PM
If not having to leave home was the real issue catalogs would have been far more popular than they were. Leaving home is not the issue ...

I think it's a generational thing.  The catalog generation (my parents' generation) would, by and large, be happy to return to brick and mortar, and they would be happy to order from catalogs.  However, the online shopping generation (my generation and younger) have no desire to go into a store unless they really have to.  Whatever is easiest and fastest is what they want–but mostly easiest.

I'm Gen X and I'm a little amused by how malls were central to my life when I was young and now I feel fortunate to only go to one at most two times a year.  Online shopping is just too convenient in terms of location (:D) and variety.

Quote from: Rothman on July 12, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
I'm Gen X and I'm a little amused by how malls were central to my life when I was young and now I feel fortunate to only go to one at most two times a year.  Online shopping is just too convenient in terms of location (:D) and variety.

Yeah, it's crazy how that shift happened during our lives.

(With my having grown up in a small town a million miles from anywhere, catalog shopping also used to be a big part of my life.  Heck, we used to order our Christmas tree through the mail.  Not an artificial one either, but a real Christmas tree.  The box would arrive, my dad and I would tug and pull the thing out, and then the branches would slowly expand to their usual breadth over about the next two or three days.)

I frequently heard it said that what contributed to the death of a lot of physical retailers (CompUSA and Circuit City being two of them) that people would go into the stores, examine the display models of whatever piece of electronics they wanted to buy, and then go find it from the cheapest online retailer possible.

And we have people here who have chafed at the thoughts of having to buy clothing online if their favorite stores disappear or move to a no-retail presence.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2021, 03:24:37 PM
I frequently heard it said that what contributed to the death of a lot of physical retailers (CompUSA and Circuit City being two of them) that people would go into the stores, examine the display models of whatever piece of electronics they wanted to buy, and then go find it from the cheapest online retailer possible.

And we have people here who have chafed at the thoughts of having to buy clothing online if their favorite stores disappear or move to a no-retail presence.

That was more of a symptom than a cause. Falling real wages were a major factor in the decline of both, Circuit City was an upmarket retailer in a race to the bottom, bad position to be in. The advantages given to e-commerce also hurt (not paying sales taxes, subsidized shipping, etc.)

Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2021, 03:24:37 PM
And we have people here who have chafed at the thoughts of having to buy clothing online if their favorite stores disappear or move to a no-retail presence.

Certain things like clothes are tough buy online, but plenty of people do.  Heck, now that I know what type of jeans I like, I simply order the exact same ones every couple of years.  I'm one of those who said I'd never buy jeans online.  Shoes, on the other hand...  Yeah, I'll probably stick with brick and mortar for shoes forever.  If I were a woman, I'd probably feel the same way about a bra:  gotta try it on first or risk being uncomfortable all day every day.

But there aren't very many things like that.  Bicycles are one.  Most things are not like bicycles.

Missouri gas tax signed into law:

https://www.equipmentworld.com/better-roads/article/15066505/missouri-gas-tax-raised-for-first-time-in-25-years

Good for Missouri. Hopefully this can really help them get some much needed projects going.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2021, 03:59:51 PM

Quote from: Crown Victoria on July 11, 2021, 11:59:59 AM
Pennsylvania's Transportation Revenue Options Commission is considering recommending a package fee in its report due next month. This would involve a small fee placed on package deliveries (such as by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc.) with revenues going to PennDOT. Such a fee has the potential to raise several hundred million dollars per year, depending on the exact amount of the fee.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/07/11/PennDOT-delivery-fee-Amazon-transportation-funding/stories/202107110045


*This is not, as far as I'm aware, in a bill currently before the legislature, but is likely to be if it's included in the TROC's report, along with other options to be recommended. I'm listing it here as I'm sure other states will pursue this idea in the near future.

Do any other states have this kind of fee? I can see it being challenged in court as being interstate commerce, and thus subject to regulation by Congress instead of an individual state. And naturally, those fees will be passed on the consumer instead of being absorbed by the shippers. I can see this pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations. Now that states can charge sales tax on eBay purchases, even if the businesses don't have a physical presence in those states, there's no advantage to buying online if you have to pay shipping fees unless the price is drastically lower than you can find it in a store.

Walmart ain't got a search bar, and you don't have to wait for some yokel to quit staring into space in front of the merchandise on Amazon.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2021, 03:59:51 PM

Quote from: Crown Victoria on July 11, 2021, 11:59:59 AM
Pennsylvania's Transportation Revenue Options Commission is considering recommending a package fee in its report due next month. This would involve a small fee placed on package deliveries (such as by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, etc.) with revenues going to PennDOT. Such a fee has the potential to raise several hundred million dollars per year, depending on the exact amount of the fee.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/07/11/PennDOT-delivery-fee-Amazon-transportation-funding/stories/202107110045


*This is not, as far as I'm aware, in a bill currently before the legislature, but is likely to be if it's included in the TROC's report, along with other options to be recommended. I'm listing it here as I'm sure other states will pursue this idea in the near future.

Do any other states have this kind of fee? I can see it being challenged in court as being interstate commerce, and thus subject to regulation by Congress instead of an individual state. And naturally, those fees will be passed on the consumer instead of being absorbed by the shippers. I can see this pushing sales back to brick-and-mortar locations. Now that states can charge sales tax on eBay purchases, even if the businesses don't have a physical presence in those states, there's no advantage to buying online if you have to pay shipping fees unless the price is drastically lower than you can find it in a store.

Walmart ain't got a search bar, and you don't have to wait for some yokel to quit staring into space in front of the merchandise on Amazon.

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Quote from: kphoger on July 15, 2021, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Seriously, that function has been a big help when I'm in an unfamiliar Walmart, or one that has undergone significant rearrangement of the merchandise since the last time I was in it. Very handy to keep from having to walk all over the store to find a particular department, or which department a particular item is in if it fits in more than one category, or if the item is in stock in that particular store.

Walmarts have in-store wi-fi, so when you connect to a particular store's network, the app knows which store you're in and will show you the store layout. It's nice to know that the Hotshot No-Pest Strips are in lawn & garden, aisle Y17, and not in with the regular pesticides in the home department, aisle G12.

Quote from: HighwayStar on July 12, 2021, 03:38:01 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2021, 03:24:37 PM
I frequently heard it said that what contributed to the death of a lot of physical retailers (CompUSA and Circuit City being two of them) that people would go into the stores, examine the display models of whatever piece of electronics they wanted to buy, and then go find it from the cheapest online retailer possible.

And we have people here who have chafed at the thoughts of having to buy clothing online if their favorite stores disappear or move to a no-retail presence.

That was more of a symptom than a cause. Falling real wages were a major factor in the decline of both, Circuit City was an upmarket retailer in a race to the bottom, bad position to be in. The advantages given to e-commerce also hurt (not paying sales taxes, subsidized shipping, etc.)

I'm in the specialty audio business; the "race to the bottom" was precipitated not only by the advent of online sales but the larger shift from music-oriented audio systems to multimodal home theater, particularly pre-packaged systems sold at, first, "big box" stores (and they did come in pretty big boxes!) and shifting to primarily online (the big "A" being prevalent) since about 2011.  Whereas music listening is generally a matter of reproductive precision tempered with individual preference, home theater is much more a fungible product grouping, supported by most of the major audio manufacturers, most of whom have been acquired by larger corporations or holding companies in the past decade.  The prime aim today is not to produce quality music reproduction equipment (although some companies still maintain specialty divisions still doing so) -- and there are a multitude of smaller independent manufacturers out there (my firm included) catering to those still interested in quality audio reproduction -- but to churn cash; most corporate management in the field today looks for quantity rather than quality -- and prepackaged home theater provides the volume they're seeking.  And if truth be told, more people respond to visual cues than aural, so there is a pre-sold market ready to purchase "plug-and-play" systems.  It's tailor-made for online commerce.

Quote from: sparker on July 15, 2021, 05:14:44 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on July 12, 2021, 03:38:01 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2021, 03:24:37 PM
I frequently heard it said that what contributed to the death of a lot of physical retailers (CompUSA and Circuit City being two of them) that people would go into the stores, examine the display models of whatever piece of electronics they wanted to buy, and then go find it from the cheapest online retailer possible.

And we have people here who have chafed at the thoughts of having to buy clothing online if their favorite stores disappear or move to a no-retail presence.

That was more of a symptom than a cause. Falling real wages were a major factor in the decline of both, Circuit City was an upmarket retailer in a race to the bottom, bad position to be in. The advantages given to e-commerce also hurt (not paying sales taxes, subsidized shipping, etc.)

I'm in the specialty audio business; the "race to the bottom" was precipitated not only by the advent of online sales but the larger shift from music-oriented audio systems to multimodal home theater, particularly pre-packaged systems sold at, first, "big box" stores (and they did come in pretty big boxes!) and shifting to primarily online (the big "A" being prevalent) since about 2011.  Whereas music listening is generally a matter of reproductive precision tempered with individual preference, home theater is much more a fungible product grouping, supported by most of the major audio manufacturers, most of whom have been acquired by larger corporations or holding companies in the past decade.  The prime aim today is not to produce quality music reproduction equipment (although some companies still maintain specialty divisions still doing so) -- and there are a multitude of smaller independent manufacturers out there (my firm included) catering to those still interested in quality audio reproduction -- but to churn cash; most corporate management in the field today looks for quantity rather than quality -- and prepackaged home theater provides the volume they're seeking.  And if truth be told, more people respond to visual cues than aural, so there is a pre-sold market ready to purchase "plug-and-play" systems.  It's tailor-made for online commerce.

Prices are set by what a buyer will pay, not the other way around. Falling real wages means lower demand for premium products and higher demand for low grade junk.

Quote from: kphoger on July 15, 2021, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Why should I have to install software on my device to make shopping somewhere not a pain in the ass?  I don't install any apps for a single retail establishment. I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism. I don't use Amazon's app either; I place orders through the Web browser on my  desktop.

Walmart is constantly redoing their store layouts and putting things in different aisles, and even moving entire departments around at the whim of some tie-wearing parasite with a strap of hundred dollar bills jammed so far up his ass he can't think straight. So even when I go to the Walmart in my own city, it's an unfamiliar Walmart.

Meanwhile, my grocery store has rearranged its layout once the whole time it's been open, and that was only because Oklahoma legalized selling alcohol in grocery stores and they needed to make room for that (and that only really impacted three aisles). Otherwise, every single item is in the exact same spot that it was when I stepped into the place in 2013.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 16, 2021, 11:43:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 15, 2021, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Why should I have to install software on my device to make shopping somewhere not a pain in the ass?  I don't install any apps for a single retail establishment. I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism. I don't use Amazon's app either; I place orders through the Web browser on my  desktop.

Walmart is constantly redoing their store layouts and putting things in different aisles, and even moving entire departments around at the whim of some tie-wearing parasite with a strap of hundred dollar bills jammed so far up his ass he can't think straight. So even when I go to the Walmart in my own city, it's an unfamiliar Walmart.

Meanwhile, my grocery store has rearranged its layout once the whole time it's been open, and that was only because Oklahoma legalized selling alcohol in grocery stores and they needed to make room for that (and that only really impacted three aisles). Otherwise, every single item is in the exact same spot that it was when I stepped into the place in 2013.

"I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism."
We are talking about storage space worth fractions of a cent here  :eyebrow:

Quote from: HighwayStar on July 17, 2021, 03:10:23 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 16, 2021, 11:43:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 15, 2021, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Why should I have to install software on my device to make shopping somewhere not a pain in the ass?  I don't install any apps for a single retail establishment. I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism. I don't use Amazon's app either; I place orders through the Web browser on my  desktop.

Walmart is constantly redoing their store layouts and putting things in different aisles, and even moving entire departments around at the whim of some tie-wearing parasite with a strap of hundred dollar bills jammed so far up his ass he can't think straight. So even when I go to the Walmart in my own city, it's an unfamiliar Walmart.

Meanwhile, my grocery store has rearranged its layout once the whole time it's been open, and that was only because Oklahoma legalized selling alcohol in grocery stores and they needed to make room for that (and that only really impacted three aisles). Otherwise, every single item is in the exact same spot that it was when I stepped into the place in 2013.

"I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism."
We are talking about storage space worth fractions of a cent here  :eyebrow:

And it's my fraction of a cent, not Walmart's. I've filled up my phone storage before and I'm not going to buy a bigger SD card for it just to work around the fact that some Walmart executive figured out they can make 0.00000001% more profit putting toilet paper in the automotive section this week. It's much cheaper to just shop at Crest.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 17, 2021, 03:47:14 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on July 17, 2021, 03:10:23 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 16, 2021, 11:43:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 15, 2021, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Why should I have to install software on my device to make shopping somewhere not a pain in the ass?  I don't install any apps for a single retail establishment. I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism. I don't use Amazon's app either; I place orders through the Web browser on my  desktop.

Walmart is constantly redoing their store layouts and putting things in different aisles, and even moving entire departments around at the whim of some tie-wearing parasite with a strap of hundred dollar bills jammed so far up his ass he can't think straight. So even when I go to the Walmart in my own city, it's an unfamiliar Walmart.

Meanwhile, my grocery store has rearranged its layout once the whole time it's been open, and that was only because Oklahoma legalized selling alcohol in grocery stores and they needed to make room for that (and that only really impacted three aisles). Otherwise, every single item is in the exact same spot that it was when I stepped into the place in 2013.

"I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism."
We are talking about storage space worth fractions of a cent here  :eyebrow:

And it's my fraction of a cent, not Walmart's. I've filled up my phone storage before and I'm not going to buy a bigger SD card for it just to work around the fact that some Walmart executive figured out they can make 0.00000001% more profit putting toilet paper in the automotive section this week. It's much cheaper to just shop at Crest.

No.  You must shop at Walmart.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 16, 2021, 11:43:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 15, 2021, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:25:04 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Walmart ain't got a search bar ...

Actually, if you have the Walmart app on your phone, it's easy to find if an item you want is in stock, and what aisle it's in. I've used the search function in the Walmart app in the store many times.

I think you just blew Scott's mind.

Why should I have to install software on my device to make shopping somewhere not a pain in the ass?  I don't install any apps for a single retail establishment. I have better stuff to put in that storage space than capitalism. I don't use Amazon's app either; I place orders through the Web browser on my  desktop.

Walmart is constantly redoing their store layouts and putting things in different aisles, and even moving entire departments around at the whim of some tie-wearing parasite with a strap of hundred dollar bills jammed so far up his ass he can't think straight. So even when I go to the Walmart in my own city, it's an unfamiliar Walmart.

Meanwhile, my grocery store has rearranged its layout once the whole time it's been open, and that was only because Oklahoma legalized selling alcohol in grocery stores and they needed to make room for that (and that only really impacted three aisles). Otherwise, every single item is in the exact same spot that it was when I stepped into the place in 2013.

Preaching to the choir here.  Remember, I have a dumbphone these days.  And my old smartphone had such small storage that I hardly installed any apps either.

The point was merely that Walmart does have a search bar...

From Texas:

QuoteTexas voters this fall will be able to decide whether to give counties authorization to use bonds for transportation work in certain areas. Limitations would be included.

The Texas Legislature acted earlier this year to approve HJR99 to add the bond question to the Nov. 2 ballot. Any effort to amend the state's constitution requires a two-thirds supermajority vote for consideration on a ballot.

Texas statute already authorizes an incorporated city or town to issue bonds or notes to finance development of "an unproductive, underdeveloped, or blighted area."  Localities can increase property tax revenue in the area to repay the bonds.

The legislatively referred constitutional amendment, Proposition 2, would add counties to the political entities authorized to issue bonds or notes for the same purpose.

- https://landline.media/texas-voters-to-decide-on-transportation-bonds/

Wow it looks like Oregon had a 5 year bill to inject over 750 billion dollars into surface transportation and water infrastructure but didn't go anywhere this year. Anyone in Oregon have any thoughts on it?

https://www.rollcall.com/2021/08/20/defazio-looks-to-try-again-on-his-progressive-transportation-agenda/

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 23, 2021, 07:12:53 PM
Wow it looks like Oregon had a 5 year bill to inject over 750 billion dollars into surface transportation and water infrastructure but didn't go anywhere this year. Anyone in Oregon have any thoughts on it?

https://www.rollcall.com/2021/08/20/defazio-looks-to-try-again-on-his-progressive-transportation-agenda/

It's an Oregon politician proposing adding money into a federal transportation bill. He's not trying to spend $750 billion in Oregon alone.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 23, 2021, 07:20:58 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 23, 2021, 07:12:53 PM
Wow it looks like Oregon had a 5 year bill to inject over 750 billion dollars into surface transportation and water infrastructure but didn't go anywhere this year. Anyone in Oregon have any thoughts on it?

https://www.rollcall.com/2021/08/20/defazio-looks-to-try-again-on-his-progressive-transportation-agenda/

It's an Oregon politician proposing adding money into a federal transportation bill. He's not trying to spend $750 billion in Oregon alone.

I misunderstood that. I was about to say that was an extremely ambitious proposal.

Louisiana:

https://www.kplctv.com/2021/08/24/louisiana-dotd-proposes-infrastructure-investment-jobs-act/