Do you pronounce drive as "jrive" and train as "chrain"?

[7/8]

For me, I always pronounce dr- and tr- words as jr- and chr- respectively. I've read through some threads on other boards people's answers seem to range from "what are you talking about?" to "of course I do this, doesn't everybody?". I mentioned this to my mom whose name is Tracy and she says she uses a tr- for saying her name (while I use a chr-); I find that interesting since we were both born and raised around Toronto.

For those who know the International Phonetic Alphabet, this occurence doesn't seem too far fetched. The j sound is denoted as [d͡ʒ], being a combination of the d sound [d] followed by the sound of the g in genre [ʒ]. Likewise, the ch sound is denoted as [t͡ʃ], being a combination of the t sound [t] followed by the sh sound [ʃ]. Therefore, there's a pattern of changing an alveolar stop into a palato-alveolar affricate.  I would like to emphasize that I only do this before r's, so tube does not sound like chube (which sounds British to me).

Anyway, I'm curious what people's answers will be. I encourage people to actually say the words drive and train out loud before answering.

[MNHighwayMan]

For me, I always pronounce dr- and tr- words as jr- and chr- respectively. I've read through some threads on other boards people's answers seem to range from "what are you talking about?" to "of course I do this, doesn't everybody?". I mentioned this to my mom whose name is Tracy and she says she uses a tr- for saying her name (while I use a chr-); I find that interesting since we were both born and raised around Toronto.

For those who know the International Phonetic Alphabet, this occurence doesn't seem too far fetched. The j sound is denoted as [d͡ʒ], being a combination of the d sound [d] followed by the sound of the g in genre [ʒ]. Likewise, the ch sound is denoted as [t͡ʃ], being a combination of the t sound [t] followed by the sh sound [ʃ]. Therefore, there's a pattern of changing an alveolar stop into a palato-alveolar affricate.  I would like to emphasize that I only do this before r's, so tube does not sound like chube (which sounds British to me).

Anyway, I'm curious what people's answers will be. I encourage people to actually say the words drive and train out loud before answering.

To be fair, I'm not sure a lot of people have the knowledge to tell them apart specifically. This is a really niche distinction that a lot of people, lacking the fundamentals of linguistics, will probably miss.

However, I can say for certain that, for myself, those both come out as affricates. It feels really awkward to try to pronounce /tr/ and /dr/ without the second consonant before the /r/.

[kurumi]

This might be Yod-coalescence, which sounds like a C-list Lovecraft monster, but see the link.

For those picking up English as another language, sometimes similar phonemes are mapped together ("It's okay" -> "Itch okay"; "San Diego" -> "San Jego" etc.)

"Portugal" certainly sounds like "Porchagull" in a lot of American English

[hotdogPi]

"Portugal" certainly sounds like "Porchagull" in a lot of American English

If you're talking about the letter T, that's the way it should be. Compare future, furniture, fortunate, pasture, statute, and creature. (All of those end in the letter E, but that shouldn't matter.)

[english si]

I can't stop hearing the rogue [ʃ] after t, and now have no idea what I say. I don't Yod-coalesce though.

Also, as a glottalizer, pronouncing the 't' in Portugal as a 't' is definitely something I don't do.

[Hurricane Rex]

Thanks for the virius, I'm now messing up my dr and tr with jr and chr. I hope this doesn't last due to school.

[Otto Yamamoto]

For me, I always pronounce dr- and tr- words as jr- and chr- respectively. I've read through some threads on other boards people's answers seem to range from "what are you talking about?" to "of course I do this, doesn't everybody?". I mentioned this to my mom whose name is Tracy and she says she uses a tr- for saying her name (while I use a chr-); I find that interesting since we were both born and raised around Toronto.

For those who know the International Phonetic Alphabet, this occurence doesn't seem too far fetched. The j sound is denoted as [d͡ʒ], being a combination of the d sound [d] followed by the sound of the g in genre [ʒ]. Likewise, the ch sound is denoted as [t͡ʃ], being a combination of the t sound [t] followed by the sh sound [ʃ]. Therefore, there's a pattern of changing an alveolar stop into a palato-alveolar affricate.  I would like to emphasize that I only do this before r's, so tube does not sound like chube (which sounds British to me).

Anyway, I'm curious what people's answers will be. I encourage people to actually say the words drive and train out loud before answering.

No.

P00I

[kphoger]

I'm about halfway between the two.

[Brandon]

I've never really noticed the consonants to be different, it's the vowels that people speak differently.

[tchafe1978]

Saying "drive" and "train" with a "dr" and "tr" sound instead of "jrive" and "chrain" as you put it makes it sound like you have a Russian accent. Nobody I've ever heard has ever said it that way.

[SectorZ]

Saying "drive" and "train" with a "dr" and "tr" sound instead of "jrive" and "chrain" as you put it makes it sound like you have a Russian accent. Nobody I've ever heard has ever said it that way.

In Soviet Russia, chrain jrives you.

[Roadgeekteen]

Doesn't chrain sound the same as train?

[7/8]

This might be Yod-coalescence, which sounds like a C-list Lovecraft monster, but see the link.

It does seem very similar to yod-coalescence except it occurs before r instead of [j]. I haven't found a proper name for what I'm talking about in this thread

To be fair, I'm not sure a lot of people have the knowledge to tell them apart specifically. This is a really niche distinction that a lot of people, lacking the fundamentals of linguistics, will probably miss.

You're probably right. I asked my brother and I clearly heard him say "jrive", but he couldn't tell if he pronounces dr- like jr-.

Doesn't chrain sound the same as train?

It does to me, but I've heard people say otherwise. I'm curious if people actually don't rhyme them, or if they just think they don't rhyme them due to the spelling suggesting otherwise.

I'm about halfway between the two.

You might be right. Wikipedia has this entry, suggesting that the dr- sound is not exactly the same as a jr- sound*. But to me, I think drive and "jrive" rhyme, so I'm not sure if I'm not picking up on a subtle difference, or maybe I do rhyme them

* The article states that the "j" sound is sibilant while the dr- sound is non-sibilant. I'm not sure if I'm capable of understanding this small difference.

[MNHighwayMan]

I'm about halfway between the two.

You might be right. Wikipedia has this entry, suggesting that the dr- sound is not exactly the same as a jr- sound*. But to me, I think drive and "jrive" rhyme, so I'm not sure if I'm not picking up on a subtle difference, or maybe I do rhyme them

* The article states that the "j" sound is sibilant while the dr- sound is non-sibilant. I'm not sure if I'm capable of understanding this small difference.

They're very close, but not quite the same thing, which is probably why we think they rhyme: English doesn't make a phonemic distinction between them. Also, this might help with understanding sibilance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant

It has to do with the manner in which air is being forced through the mouth.

[kphoger]

I'm about halfway between the two.

You might be right. Wikipedia has this entry, suggesting that the dr- sound is not exactly the same as a jr- sound*. But to me, I think drive and "jrive" rhyme, so I'm not sure if I'm not picking up on a subtle difference, or maybe I do rhyme them

* The article states that the "j" sound is sibilant while the dr- sound is non-sibilant. I'm not sure if I'm capable of understanding this small difference.

When saying DR, my tongue doesn't curl back as far as it does when I say J.
For example, when I say the word HEDGEROW, my tongue curls back quite a bit, but not nearly as much when I say DROVE.

[hotdogPi]

"Chrain" should actually sound exactly like "crane". Chr is not ch + r. Do you pronounce Christmas or chrome as beginning with the ch sound that chocolate has?

[7/8]

"Chrain" should actually sound exactly like "crane". Chr is not ch + r. Do you pronounce Christmas or chrome as beginning with the ch sound that chocolate has?

This is a fair point I didn't consider, but how else can I write the theoretical combination of a "ch" sound followed by an "r"? This also shows how confusing English spelling can be.

[kphoger]

"Chrain" should actually sound exactly like "crane". Chr is not ch + r. Do you pronounce Christmas or chrome as beginning with the ch sound that chocolate has?

This is a fair point I didn't consider, but how else can I write the theoretical combination of a "ch" sound followed by an "r"? This also shows how confusing English spelling can be.

Tshr-

[english si]

ch can be pronounced as /tʃ/ (chalk, cherry, church, much), /k/ (ache, choir, and stomach), /ʃ/ (charade, machine, machete and pistachio), /dʒ/ (sandwich, spinach, Greenwich and Norwich), /x/ (loch), /χ/ (challah) or even silent (yacht, Crichton).

It rivals ough for different ways to say it.

[20160805]

Saying "drive" and "train" with a "dr" and "tr" sound instead of "jrive" and "chrain" as you put it makes it sound like you have a Russian accent. Nobody I've ever heard has ever said it that way.

Fellow Wisconsinite agrees.   

[kphoger]

/dʒ/ (sandwich, spinach, Greenwich and Norwich)

Whoa, really?  I've never heard anyone pronounce "sandwich" or "Greenwich" with a /dʒ/ sound before.

[MNHighwayMan]

/dʒ/ (sandwich, spinach, Greenwich and Norwich)

Whoa, really?  I've never heard anyone pronounce "sandwich" or "Greenwich" with a /dʒ/ sound before.

That's a British phenomenon.

[kphoger]

He's a British phenomenon.

FTFY.

[7/8]

/dʒ/ (sandwich, spinach, Greenwich and Norwich)

Whoa, really?  I've never heard anyone pronounce "sandwich" or "Greenwich" with a /dʒ/ sound before.

I say the first two with a /dʒ/ sound, but the last two with a /tʃ/ sound (maybe because I rarely use these words). Sandwiches (plural) with a /tʃ/ sounds weird to me.

[kkt]

Saying "drive" and "train" with a "dr" and "tr" sound instead of "jrive" and "chrain" as you put it makes it sound like you have a Russian accent. Nobody I've ever heard has ever said it that way.

In Soviet Russia, chrain jrives you.