I-35: FM 3002 to Oklahoma widening

[Chris]

TxDOT is planning a widening of I-35 in Cooke County to an 'ultimate' configuration of eight lanes from FM 3002 into Oklahoma, including the replacement of the Red River Bridge.

Description:
The proposed project would construct two additional travel lanes in each direction on I-35 in Cooke County, Texas, and Love County, Oklahoma and convert the I-35 frontage roads to one-way traffic. The addition of two travel lanes on I-35 would also require a new bridge at the Red River. Due to funding constraints, construction of the proposed project would likely require two phases. The interim phase would implement two of the improvements: constructing one additional travel lane in each direction to create a six-lane facility and converting the two-way frontage roads to one-way frontage roads. All bridges, including the proposed new Red River Bridge, would be built during the interim phase of construction. All frontage roads upon project completion will be one way. The ultimate phase would construct one additional travel lane in each direction of I-35 to increase the facility's capacity from six to eight lanes.

More: https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/wichita-falls/022720.html

[BrandonC_TX]

TxDOT's Dallas District needs to get planning for the section of I-35 between US 380 and the Denton-Cooke county line, I'd say.  Of course, I could see some hold-ups with planning this section due to uncertainty concerning the alignment of the regional outer loop (I believe the current preferred alignment has the outer loop meeting I-35 at FM-3163/Milam Road, though I've heard about an alternative that would use the existing freeway on Loop 288).

Also the bridge at US 82 in Gainesville will have to be rebuilt (it is currently too narrow to accommodate an 8-lane freeway) for the ultimate phase, although a 6-lane freeway would fit under that bridge just fine.

[Bobby5280]

I find it surprising TX DOT and ODOT have allowed I-35 to stay in 4-lane configuration from Gainesville up through Thackerville across the river. The outlet stores in Gainesville draw quite a bit of traffic. And then WinStar Casino is just huge.

[thisdj78]

I find it surprising TX DOT and ODOT have allowed I-35 to stay in 4-lane configuration from Gainesville up through Thackerville across the river. The outlet stores in Gainesville draw quite a bit of traffic. And then WinStar Casino is just huge.

The outlets are all but dead now, but yes WinStar in itself draws a decent amount of traffic, especially as they have expanded over the years.

At the very least, the bridge should have been widened years ago to accommodate future expansion.

[J N Winkler]

There is also a reduced-speed curve on the Texas side of the Red River bridge that needs to be eliminated.  We actually discussed necessary improvements to I-35 in Texas between Denton and the Red River in a separate thread, and the schematics TxDOT then had available for the Gainesville-Red River segment pretty much solve all the problems we identified for it.

My concern about progressing this part before the Denton-Gainesville segment is the possibility of a short-lived bottleneck.  But to make an omelette you have to break eggs.

[rte66man]

I find it surprising TX DOT and ODOT have allowed I-35 to stay in 4-lane configuration from Gainesville up through Thackerville across the river. The outlet stores in Gainesville draw quite a bit of traffic. And then WinStar Casino is just huge.

The outlets are all but dead now, but yes WinStar in itself draws a decent amount of traffic, especially as they have expanded over the years.

At the very least, the bridge should have been widened years ago to accommodate future expansion.

The problem has been and always will be getting TxDOT and ODOT to agree on what should be done. I can't think of a single Red River bridge improvement/replacement in the last 15 years that hasn't been delayed by some dispute.  The US377 bridge replacement at Willis was delayed by more than a year because TxDOT wouldn't pay their share.

Wonder if the Chickasaws have been mediating on this.

[kphoger]

There is also a reduced-speed curve on the Texas side of the Red River bridge that needs to be eliminated.  We actually discussed necessary improvements to I-35 in Texas between Denton and the Red River in a separate thread, and the schematics TxDOT then had available for the Gainesville-Red River segment pretty much solve all the problems we identified for it.

My concern about progressing this part before the Denton-Gainesville segment is the possibility of a short-lived bottleneck.  But to make an omelette you have to break eggs.

Can you find that thread?  I can't seem to locate it, but I think I listed historical AADT for the river bridge.

[rte66man]

There is also a reduced-speed curve on the Texas side of the Red River bridge that needs to be eliminated.  We actually discussed necessary improvements to I-35 in Texas between Denton and the Red River in a separate thread, and the schematics TxDOT then had available for the Gainesville-Red River segment pretty much solve all the problems we identified for it.

My concern about progressing this part before the Denton-Gainesville segment is the possibility of a short-lived bottleneck.  But to make an omelette you have to break eggs.

Can you find that thread?  I can't seem to locate it, but I think I listed historical AADT for the river bridge.

Tried for an hour last night but wasn't successful in finding it. Must be a tangent from the main thread.

[kphoger]

There is also a reduced-speed curve on the Texas side of the Red River bridge that needs to be eliminated.  We actually discussed necessary improvements to I-35 in Texas between Denton and the Red River in a separate thread, and the schematics TxDOT then had available for the Gainesville-Red River segment pretty much solve all the problems we identified for it.

My concern about progressing this part before the Denton-Gainesville segment is the possibility of a short-lived bottleneck.  But to make an omelette you have to break eggs.

Can you find that thread?  I can't seem to locate it, but I think I listed historical AADT for the river bridge.

Tried for an hour last night but wasn't successful in finding it. Must be a tangent from the main thread.

No matter.  I went ahead and made a chart.

This is the historical AADT count from TxDOT at the Red River crossing.

[Chris]

There is also a reduced-speed curve on the Texas side of the Red River bridge that needs to be eliminated.  We actually discussed necessary improvements to I-35 in Texas between Denton and the Red River in a separate thread, and the schematics TxDOT then had available for the Gainesville-Red River segment pretty much solve all the problems we identified for it.

Can you find that thread?  I can't seem to locate it, but I think I listed historical AADT for the river bridge.

Tried for an hour last night but wasn't successful in finding it. Must be a tangent from the main thread.

I also remember it being discussed but I couldn't find a thread for it either, before I opened this thread.

[J N Winkler]

Can you find that thread?  I can't seem to locate it, but I think I listed historical AADT for the river bridge.

Yes, you did--see below.

Tried for an hour last night but wasn't successful in finding it. Must be a tangent from the main thread.

Apologies for the abortive search (and for not linking to it in the first place).  It dealt with the next segment south, FM 3002 to Denton.  Here it is:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24768.0

[kphoger]

Quoting my own pertinent post from that thread...

One other thing I see is that TxDOT recorded a 44% increase in traffic at the state line between 2013 and 2017, with traffic counts increasing every year since 2012.

The casino appears to (perhaps) account for some spike in traffic when it opened in 2004, but I don't know what caused traffic counts to start rising rather suddenly ten years later.

[thisdj78]

Quoting my own pertinent post from that thread...

One other thing I see is that TxDOT recorded a 44% increase in traffic at the state line between 2013 and 2017, with traffic counts increasing every year since 2012.

The casino appears to (perhaps) account for some spike in traffic when it opened in 2004, but I don't know what caused traffic counts to start rising rather suddenly ten years later.

The casino has expanded significantly since 2004. Coincidentally:

In August 2013, WinStar Resorts completed a major expansion project, which added a new 1000-room second hotel tower that was divided into two phases; this also added a new casino that is attached to the tower. As a result of the completion of this expansion, the casino overtook Foxwoods Resort Casino to become the largest casino in the United States and one of the largest in the world based on gaming floor space.

[Bobby5280]

Another obvious thing to consider with the rising traffic levels on I-35 at the Red River: Texas is continuing to gain population at a fairly rapid pace. The DFW metroplex is one of the most popular areas for transplants from California and other states (including Oklahoma) to settle. The Oklahoma City metro is one of the few places in the Sooner state charting net growth. Naturally that's going to boost traffic levels on I-35.

My concern about progressing this part before the Denton-Gainesville segment is the possibility of a short-lived bottleneck.  But to make an omelette you have to break eggs.

I agree it's a little surprising. But considering the rate of cost inflation with road projects it probably makes more sense to get a costly bridge upgrade out of the way years ahead of more simple upgrades.

What's also weird is North of the US-380 corridor it looks like more upgrades and activity has been taking place along US-75 than I-35. It's pretty odd that I-35 drops to 2 lanes in each direction on the North side of Denton. An upgrade to at least 3 lanes in each direction is long overdue.

[kphoger]

Yes, I-35 north of Denton being four lanes is as bad a situation as I-35 being four lanes north of Des Moines (IA).

Denton-Sanger:  AADT = 68k
Sanger-Valley View:  AADT = 52k
Valley View-Gainesville:  AADT = 51k
Gainesville-Oklahoma line:  AADT = 48k

Anekny-Ames (IA):  AADT = 44k

[BrandonC_TX]

Northern Denton County needs the widening first I'd say.  I saw the schematics for the Denton to Cooke County project linked to the thread for that project, which only shows a 6 lane configuration for that section (and an 8 lane configuration, the "ultimate" configuration, in Cooke County).  It also shows the ultimate configuration of the I-35Express project from US 380 southwards quickly bottlenecking from a 5-2-2-5 section (at US 380) to a 3-3 section (at Loop 288); if this is what will ultimately happen then I expect a severe bottleneck for northbound I-35 traffic in Denton, though that is okay based on the current interim configuration (which is 3-3 south of US 380).  I-35 should ultimately be (at minimum) 10 lanes south of Loop 288 and 8 lanes north of 288, or at least have 5 northbound lanes between US 380 and Loop 288 and 4 northbound lanes north of there for a few miles north of 288 (to address the bottleneck the I-35Express ultimate project will generate).

[Bobby5280]

One bright side is it looks like I-35 going North of US-380 in Denton has room for at least 4 lanes in each direction. The I-35 bridge over US-380 in Denton is actually built wide enough to hold 4 lanes in both directions.

[Plutonic Panda]

This can't come soon enough. Sorry to beat a dead horse but I'd love to see the entire interstate a minimum of six lanes to OKC. I get stuck all the time behind two slow drivers when one won't move the fuck over.

[MaxConcrete]

TxDOT opened bids today for section from US 82 in Gainesville to south of Spring Creek Road. The bid info below says it is 15.8 miles, but the plans show 7.3 miles which is correct. That works out to $28.8 million/mile.

This ultimate plan for this corridor is 4x4, but this project is building 3x3. However, all bridges are being built to 4x4 standards, and many sections (such as around entrance/exit ramps) have the full concrete for 4x4. Converting to 4x4 will just require the addition of 10-foot shoulders where the full width concrete is not being built.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/02053201.htm

County:   COOKE   Let Date:   02/05/21
Type:   WIDEN ROAD - ADD LANES   Seq No:   3201
Time:   1395 WORKING DAYS   Project ID:   NH 2021(327)
Highway:   IH 35   Contract #:   02213201
Length:   15.800   CCSJ:   0195-01-119
Limits:   
From:   1.4 MI SOUTH OF SPRING CREEK ROAD   Check:   $100,000
To:   0.2 MI SOUTH OF US 82   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $212,800,313.85   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $209,999,113.25   -1.32%   AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
Bidder 2   $211,966,485.59   -0.39%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $212,278,836.00   -0.25%   SACYR CONSTRUCTION USA LLC

[bwana39]

I think the point is that the Wichita Falls district may want to go ahead and do their part. Cooke county is the only county on I-35 in that district.  So it makes sense that they should be on point to develop their portion without interruption while the Dallas District has a booming metro area on all four sides. Lot easier to decide between I-44 and I-35 than I-20, I-30, I -35, I-45, US-75, US-175 and all the other metropolitan freeways.

[rte66man]

TxDOT opened bids today for section from US 82 in Gainesville to south of Spring Creek Road. The bid info below says it is 15.8 miles, but the plans show 7.3 miles which is correct. That works out to $28.8 million/mile.

This ultimate plan for this corridor is 4x4, but this project is building 3x3. However, all bridges are being built to 4x4 standards, and many sections (such as around entrance/exit ramps) have the full concrete for 4x4. Converting to 4x4 will just require the addition of 10-foot shoulders where the full width concrete is not being built.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/02053201.htm

County:   COOKE   Let Date:   02/05/21
Type:   WIDEN ROAD - ADD LANES   Seq No:   3201
Time:   1395 WORKING DAYS   Project ID:   NH 2021(327)
Highway:   IH 35   Contract #:   02213201
Length:   15.800   CCSJ:   0195-01-119
Limits:   
From:   1.4 MI SOUTH OF SPRING CREEK ROAD   Check:   $100,000
To:   0.2 MI SOUTH OF US 82   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $212,800,313.85   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $209,999,113.25   -1.32%   AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
Bidder 2   $211,966,485.59   -0.39%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $212,278,836.00   -0.25%   SACYR CONSTRUCTION USA LLC

I realize the actual US82 interchange isn't a part of this contract, but it seems like only yesterday that TxDOT rebuilt this bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6400148,-97.1556722,3a,75y,353.78h,87.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXuEN_m9utBPjEfJJ6hLIkA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

As you can tell, they will have to tear it out and do it again.

MaxC, does that mean the bridges over the Elm Fork of the Trinity will be 4x4? That greatly increases the cost. I like that they are doing that. OTA did the same thing on the Turner Turnpike rebuild from Heyburn to Sapulpa in Oklahoma.

[J N Winkler]

MaxC, does that mean the bridges over the Elm Fork of the Trinity will be 4x4? That greatly increases the cost. I like that they are doing that. OTA did the same thing on the Turner Turnpike rebuild from Heyburn to Sapulpa in Oklahoma.

Yes, they are building the mainlane bridges to accommodate four lanes in each direction, but striping them for only three in the first instance, with extra-wide right shoulders.  The plans show "ultimate EOP" with a dotted line in the areas where three-lane sections will need added pavement to complete the upgrade to four lanes with full right shoulders.

[Scott5114]

Wonder if the Chickasaws have been mediating on this.

I seem to recall from a previous discussion that they were chipping in a few million to cover part of the Oklahoma portion of the project.

[Bobby5280]

I think the point is that the Wichita Falls district may want to go ahead and do their part. Cooke county is the only county on I-35 in that district.  So it makes sense that they should be on point to develop their portion without interruption while the Dallas District has a booming metro area on all four sides. Lot easier to decide between I-44 and I-35 than I-20, I-30, I -35, I-45, US-75, US-175 and all the other metropolitan freeways.

The Wichita Falls district may have only short runs of I-44 and I-35, but the district has other roads in serious need of upgrades, US-287 being a big one. I still contend that needs to be upgraded to Interstate quality from Fort Worth up to Amarillo at the very least. Nevertheless, that segment of I-35 leading up to and across the Red River has to get widened ASAP.

[rte66man]

Wonder if the Chickasaws have been mediating on this.

I seem to recall from a previous discussion that they were chipping in a few million to cover part of the Oklahoma portion of the project.

I thought so too but it isn't mentioned directly on the 8 Year Plan like they did for the US377 Willis Bridge or any other Red River bridge.