Turner Turnpike - Next Widening Project

[rte66man]

OTA is advertising for bids on the next widening project for the Turner Turnpike. They are widening the last piece from the Creek Turnpike east to the OK66 junction to 3 lanes in each direction. It does not appear they are addressing that junction at this time.

https://www.pikepass.com/Engineering/ProjectInformation.aspx?source=DrivingForward

The reconstruction of the bridge over a creek and the Creek westbound lanes will be the biggest expense.  I was surprised they didn't allow for that when the bridge was built.  The overpass at 81st St South was already widened when it was rebuilt a few years ago. 

[Plutonic Panda]

I could have sworn there is a project that is redesigning the 66/44 exits to add a flyover ramp and move the 66 ramps to the right side of the freeway.

[Plutonic Panda]

Maybe it's a separate project but I remember reading a couple articles about it and how it confused many people that got confused and accidentally ended up on 66. I am usually very good at being able to follow signage but even that ramp confused me on time.

[Bobby5280]

There are multiple problems with the WB I-44/OK-66 split. The OK-66 exit is a 2-lane wide left exit. Left exits are unusual enough just in single lane form. If any motorist allows his brain to go the slightest bit into auto-pilot mode it will be easy for him to get fooled into following the 2 left lanes rather than staying to the right. I've made the mistake a few times, one of them a couple years ago. And I've lived in Oklahoma over 25 years. Visually the 2 right lanes for I-44 look a bit like a 2-lane exit ramp. Those 2 lanes are on a bit of an incline. Meanwhile the 2 left lanes are shifting left to go under an overpass. That situation makes the 2 left lanes look more like freeway main lanes. Drivers really have to pay attention to the overhead green signs to get into the correct lanes.

Heavy traffic can complicate the situation. I'll push my speed a little bit and often get into the left passing lanes to do so. If you're too far to the left in this location you might find yourself blocked from staying on I-44.

[Plutonic Panda]

I got a speeding ticket on OK-66 after getting frustrated I took the wrong ramp I went a tad over the limit to get to the next on ramp and I discussed with the officer(a nice guy) and he said I wasn't the only one to speed after that. LOL! I hope they are fixing it. I might be driving up that way soon so I'll report on what I see.

If my memory is correct, then construction should already be well underway here.

[rte66man]

There is nothing on ODOT's 8-Year Plan referring to any changes here.

[CtrlAltDel]

There are multiple problems with the WB I-44/OK-66 split. The OK-66 exit is a 2-lane wide left exit. Left exits are unusual enough just in single lane form. If any motorist allows his brain to go the slightest bit into auto-pilot mode it will be easy for him to get fooled into following the 2 left lanes rather than staying to the right.

I've made that mistake too, the one time I drove it. I think, though, that there's more than autopilot behind the mistake. The lay of the road, as you point out, but also the dancing arrows make it seem like left is the way to go.

[Scott5114]

There's also the 57th W Avenue exit direction sign there, meaning that someone might glance at the up-right arrow and instinctively go to the left, thinking both right lanes are for 57th. This is underscored by the 66 ramp having just down arrows, so it seems like a less urgent message and like the left exit is further away than it really is.

This could be fixed so that the 57th sign is broken out onto its own cantilever after the 44/66 split and using up-left arrows for the 66 exit.

[Bobby5280]

I agree it would be better if the 57th Street exit sign was on its own separate cantilever structure, or even ground-mounted sign.

The OK-66 and I-44 exit panels on the existing sign bridge  should be on a larger, single panel -perhaps even with diagrammatic arrows. A double headed "Y" arrow would be above the middle lane. It's either that or maybe the existing sign bridge needs to be moved 200 feet so it will be above the point where the OK-66 and I-44 lanes begin to split. It would be easier to position separate OK-66 and I-44 panels directly above their respective pairs of lanes.

Getting back to the original topic, it makes sense for the OTA to choose to widen I-44 from the Creek Turnpike exit up to the OK-66 split for the next project. Later, I wonder if the OTA will start working from the other end of the Turner Turnpike. The I-35/I-44/Kilpatrick Turnpike interchange needs additional improvements. The Kilpatrick needs to be widened to 3 lanes in each direction between the Eastern Ave exit and I-35. If the Kickapoo Turnpike works as intended I-44 will need at least 3 lanes in each direction from I-35 up to the Wellston exit.

[Plutonic Panda]

The I-35 interchange needs a complete redo. I know it was just built but the bridge curves could be straightened a bit, exits/entrances moved to the right, I'm not sure what else could be done without requiring major capital expense that would justify just redesigning the entire thing. I really hope we don't have to wait it's entire design life to get a new setup because the current one sucks so bad.

[rte66man]

The I-35 interchange needs a complete redo. I know it was just built but the bridge curves could be straightened a bit, exits/entrances moved to the right, I'm not sure what else could be done without requiring major capital expense that would justify just redesigning the entire thing. I really hope we don't have to wait it's entire design life to get a new setup because the current one sucks so bad.

I know I saw somewhere that they are working on plans to eliminate all the left-hand entrances and exits.  Couldn't find it on either ODOT or OTA sites.

[Plutonic Panda]

The I-35 interchange needs a complete redo. I know it was just built but the bridge curves could be straightened a bit, exits/entrances moved to the right, I'm not sure what else could be done without requiring major capital expense that would justify just redesigning the entire thing. I really hope we don't have to wait it's entire design life to get a new setup because the current one sucks so bad.

I know I saw somewhere that they are working on plans to eliminate all teh left-hand entrances and exits.  Couldn't find it on either ODOT or OTA sites.

I know I read an article about reconstructing and modernizing all toll plazas to have cash customers go to the right and toll tags stay left. That is statewide. I haven't seen anything about exits and entrances but that would be very welcome.

[Bobby5280]

Work to modernize toll plazas on OK turnpikes is very long overdue. But it seems like the projects to do so are getting pushed back or shelved completely.

For instance the Walters toll plaza on I-44 between Lawton and the Red River was at one time scheduled to be rebuilt this year. Now the project is either pushed back several years or just taken off the books completely. The Walters toll plaza is really crappy and very old. The bridge going over the toll booths is in really bad shape. The road surface is absolutely terrible. Not only does the toll plaza need a complete remodel, but the interchange (bridge and ramps) needs to be totally re-built.

There is good reason to shift cash lanes off to the right: car accidents. The Newcastle toll plaza on I-44 was built in the 1990's. PikePass users have a single lane to go right. That creates weaving conflicts between PikePass motorists trying to maintain full turnpike speed and other cars slowing ahead of the plaza. Accidents happen in those conflicts. A rare, yet baffling issue: inattentive drivers may not notice the approaching toll plaza until it's too late. Having cash lanes off to the right will help solve both problems.

[rte66man]

Work to modernize toll plazas on OK turnpikes is very long overdue. But it seems like the projects to do so are getting pushed back or shelved completely.

For instance the Walters toll plaza on I-44 between Lawton and the Red River was at one time scheduled to be rebuilt this year. Now the project is either pushed back several years or just taken off the books completely. The Walters toll plaza is really crappy and very old. The bridge going over the toll booths is in really bad shape. The road surface is absolutely terrible. Not only does the toll plaza need a complete remodel, but the interchange (bridge and ramps) needs to be totally re-built.

There is good reason to shift cash lanes off to the right: car accidents. The Newcastle toll plaza on I-44 was built in the 1990's. PikePass users have a single lane to go right. That creates weaving conflicts between PikePass motorists trying to maintain full turnpike speed and other cars slowing ahead of the plaza. Accidents happen in those conflicts. A rare, yet baffling issue: inattentive drivers may not notice the approaching toll plaza until it's too late. Having cash lanes off to the right will help solve both problems.

+1

Not sure why OTA keeps pushing off the Walters toll plaza work. It looks as if ALL of the toll plaza reworks have been pushed off of the 5 Year Capital Plan. Newcastle has disappeared. The Indian Nation plaza at Antlers has also been dropped. Budget cuts due to reduced revenue?

[skluth]

There is good reason to shift cash lanes off to the right: car accidents. The Newcastle toll plaza on I-44 was built in the 1990's. PikePass users have a single lane to go right. That creates weaving conflicts between PikePass motorists trying to maintain full turnpike speed and other cars slowing ahead of the plaza. Accidents happen in those conflicts. A rare, yet baffling issue: inattentive drivers may not notice the approaching toll plaza until it's too late. Having cash lanes off to the right will help solve both problems.

I had never thought about that. It never bothered me once Illinois moved their cash lanes off to the right; I rather liked that I didn't have to worry about getting my change out as quickly (although the cost moved up to $2 IIRC once the cash collection was moved off the main line) since I knew most drivers paying cash were less organized than me in paying. I think having the ETC on the main line also helps encourage drivers to get a transponder as it's easy to see how quickly ETC cars move under the gantry as cash drivers fumble with their wallets and purses. I did notice traffic on the NW (now the Addams) and Tri-State Tollways moved much better with the offset cash lanes.

That experience likely influenced my decision to get a transponder now that I'm in California, even though I rarely use the toll roads. The transponders are sometimes needed to use the HOV/HOT lanes here and I may have a passenger or three when I travel west of the Banning Pass (like down CA 91 to Orange County), so that also influenced my decision. A buck a month is worth using the HOV lanes.

Back on topic, I encourage Oklahoma to rebuild all its toll plazas with ETC on the main lanes with all cash collection to the right.

[Bobby5280]

Not sure why OTA keeps pushing off the Walters toll plaza work. It looks as if ALL of the toll plaza reworks have been pushed off of the 5 Year Capital Plan. Newcastle has disappeared. The Indian Nation plaza at Antlers has also been dropped. Budget cuts due to reduced revenue?

I can't make any sense of it. IMHO, the Walters Toll Plaza is arguably an urgent, priority issue since it is the last toll plaza on I-44 in Oklahoma without any free flowing PikePass lanes.

The OTA appears to have a fixation on favoring certain regions above others. On the Muskogee Turnpike, the toll plaza and interchange at OK-51 was re-built in 1995 to include some oddly configured outboard PikePass lanes. Then the interchange and toll plaza was re-built again in 2017. But that toll plaza is near Tulsa. The Walters toll plaza is only between Lawton and Wichita Falls. The travel plaza and EZ-GO store North of that janky old toll booth did get re-built a few years ago.

If the OTA moves to all electronic tolling maybe they can use some of the savings on toll booth attendant payroll to finally re-build that Walters toll plaza, among other outdated toll plazas elsewhere in the OTA system.

That experience likely influenced my decision to get a transponder now that I'm in California, even though I rarely use the toll roads. The transponders are sometimes needed to use the HOV/HOT lanes here and I may have a passenger or three when I travel west of the Banning Pass (like down CA 91 to Orange County), so that also influenced my decision. A buck a month is worth using the HOV lanes.

I've had my PikePass account since the late 1990's. Back then I was dragging my feet on getting a PikePass, but after getting stuck in one pretty long cash lanes line at the Newcastle I-44 toll plaza I was at the tag agency the next day. Some old fart in a pickup truck hauling a trailer was arguing about his toll and number of axles, holding up everyone except the PikePass users. Those folks were breezing by just fine. The toll booth attendant briefly mentioned the issue along with a sorry for the wait apology when I paid my toll.

The PikePass transponder was removable in the 1990's. To me it looked a little like a soap bar; it would attach to some velcro applied to the windshield. I can't remember the year they got rid of them -sometime in the 2000's. Now the PikePass is just some little decal thingie for the windshield that can't be removed (or used in another vehicle).

[Plutonic Panda]

https://www.drivingforwardok.com/

This website is a fucking joke. I will say in OTAs defense they do seem to be doing a better job of keeping their main site updated but this one is horrible.

[rte66man]

https://www.drivingforwardok.com/

This website is a fucking joke. I will say in OTAs defense they do seem to be doing a better job of keeping their main site updated but this one is horrible.

Not sure whether the changes here and on the ODOT site were driven by the rebranding effort for all state agencies or not. Regardless, both really suck.

[Plutonic Panda]

https://www.drivingforwardok.com/

This website is a fucking joke. I will say in OTAs defense they do seem to be doing a better job of keeping their main site updated but this one is horrible.

Not sure whether the changes here and on the ODOT site were driven by the rebranding effort for all state agencies or not. Regardless, both really suck.

My main beef with the driving forward website is how outdated the information is there. They hardly kept it updated and just gave on it. So typical of Oklahoma. There's individual projects in California that started 5 or more years ago that have their own websites and they are updated daily to this day. Oklahoma couldn't be bothered to keep a website updated that is part of a statewide initiative to build new tollways.

[SoonerCowboy]

https://www.drivingforwardok.com/

This website is a fucking joke. I will say in OTAs defense they do seem to be doing a better job of keeping their main site updated but this one is horrible.

Not sure whether the changes here and on the ODOT site were driven by the rebranding effort for all state agencies or not. Regardless, both really suck.

My main beef with the driving forward website is how outdated the information is there. They hardly kept it updated and just gave on it. So typical of Oklahoma. There's individual projects in California that started 5 or more years ago that have their own websites and they are updated daily to this day. Oklahoma couldn't be bothered to keep a website updated that is part of a statewide initiative to build new tollways.

I agree the driving forward website, drives me crazy LOL. The updates are very slow going. They did however finally do a little (very little) updating to the Kickapoo section.

[skluth]

https://www.drivingforwardok.com/

This website is a fucking joke. I will say in OTAs defense they do seem to be doing a better job of keeping their main site updated but this one is horrible.

Not sure whether the changes here and on the ODOT site were driven by the rebranding effort for all state agencies or not. Regardless, both really suck.

My main beef with the driving forward website is how outdated the information is there. They hardly kept it updated and just gave on it. So typical of Oklahoma. There's individual projects in California that started 5 or more years ago that have their own websites and they are updated daily to this day. Oklahoma couldn't be bothered to keep a website updated that is part of a statewide initiative to build new tollways.

I agree the driving forward website, drives me crazy LOL. The updates are very slow going. They did however finally do a little (very little) updating to the Kickapoo section.

It's not only outdated info. It looks like it was put together by a kid who audited a couple community college web design classes and used every trick in the syllabus. I saw better web pages when people still used Netscape.