Flashing green arrow for protected turns

[andrepoiy]

Durham Region, which is a suburb east of Toronto, has altered its signals so that left turn arrows flash, instead of being steady.

I sent their Public Works department for a reason why, and they said this:

.

What do you think of a flashing green arrow? Do you agree with Durham Region's reasoning?

Here is an example with a protected turn signal. (start at 1:28)

Here is an example with a permissive signal. (start at 11:58)

[froggie]

Worth noting that flashing green for protected left turns is fairly standard in Quebec.  Possibly where they borrowed it from.

[roadfro]

Doesn't seem like there is a functional difference between a steady green arrow and a flashing one. If that's the case, then why bother? I think if you're going to have a flashing signal indication, there should be a meaning behind it.

[hotdogPi]

Flashing green should be used the way it is in Massachusetts: like a flashing yellow, but no cross traffic (usually a fire station or pedestrian crossing).

As arrows only indicate direction, a flashing green arrow would not be used often. I can't think of any cases, but there might be something complicated that requires one.

[andrepoiy]

A flashing green ball here in Ontario has the same meaning as a green light with a left turn arrow: protected turn and opposing direction gets a red.

[Big John]

They are all over Vancouver with a bimodal arrow.

[jakeroot]

I believe Ontario is the hold out here. Flashing green arrows are the norm over this way, apart from signals that are fully-protected (as they do not share a section).

The point is to improve phase recognition, especially for those with Deuteranopia. Side effect of bimodal signals. Hard to believe Ontario took this long to start adopting them.



Side-note: in the second video, the oncoming left-turning driver starts to creep out into the intersection despite having a red signal (jump to 12:03). Is this common in Ontario? Out west, creeping starts only once the green orb is lit.

[hotdogPi]

Is this (Wakefield, MA) a holdout, then?

(This signal is a flashing green/red that switches to pedestrian mode when the pedestrian button is pushed, although I haven't tested pressing the button. Unlike most flashing greens in Massachusetts, there is a cross street here.)

[jakeroot]

Doesn't seem like there is a functional difference between a steady green arrow and a flashing one. If that's the case, then why bother? I think if you're going to have a flashing signal indication, there should be a meaning behind it.

Out in BC, flashing green arrows are used to indicate a protected-permissive left turn, with steady green being used to indicate a fully-protected left. Might be the only province to use this distinction.

Flashing green should be used the way it is in Massachusetts: like a flashing yellow, but no cross traffic (usually a fire station or pedestrian crossing).

This is also how it is used in BC: ped-controlled crossing, likely with cross-traffic; emergency signals are two-lens rest-in-dark, though. Like above, possibly the only province to use this setup. I know out east, it was more common to use flashing green orbs to indicate a protected left.

[jakeroot]

Is this (Wakefield, MA) a holdout, then?

(This signal is a flashing green/red that switches to pedestrian mode when the pedestrian button is pushed, although I haven't tested pressing the button. Unlike most flashing greens in Massachusetts, there is a cross street here.)

We're talking about Canada. Flashing green is verboten in the US, and has been for some time.

[Mr Kite]

I don't see the point, personally. Most of the world gets by with just a steady-lit green arrow.

[jakeroot]

I don't see the point, personally. Most of the world gets by with just a steady-lit green arrow.

Most of the world doesn't use bimodal signals. As I stated above, it is to differ between the green and yellow arrow phases. But for consistency, many provinces now use it to indicate all protected lefts.

[andrepoiy]

I believe Ontario is the hold out here. Flashing green arrows are the norm over this way, apart from signals that are fully-protected (as they do not share a section).

The point is to improve phase recognition, especially for those with Deuteranopia. Side effect of bimodal signals. Hard to believe Ontario took this long to start adopting them.



Side-note: in the second video, the oncoming left-turning driver starts to creep out into the intersection despite having a red signal (jump to 12:03). Is this common in Ontario? Out west, creeping starts only once the green orb is lit.

Well for now the flashing left is, as far as I know, only present on Region-maintained signals in Durham Region for now.

As for the driver creeping out, he's just impatient. It's not common here.

[jakeroot]

Well for now the flashing left is, as far as I know, only present on Region-maintained signals in Durham Region for now.

As for the driver creeping out, he's just impatient. It's not common here.

I bet it'll spread eventually. That it hasn't happened sooner is pretty surprising to me, since Ontario used flashing green orbs to indicate a protected left for decades; transitioning to just a flashing green arrow seemed like it would have been the natural progression. As far as I know, flashing green arrows have existed in BC for quite a long time (at least 20 years, probably longer), so there was some precedent.

Thanks for the info. I'm used to seeing such behaviour in the US with flashing yellow arrows, but not in Canada since there is no equivalent just yet. The video kind of threw me off since I was thinking that intersection may have had a special turn signal or something.

[Henry]

In the OP, the same clip was posted twice. Also, I noticed that the flashing green arrow (or FGA, if you will) flashed a bit quicker than what we Americans are accustomed to. Then again, when I was a kid, pedestrian WALK/walking man signals were flashing before they switched over to steady, but I digress.

Even after viewing the clip, I strongly prefer the American way of handling permissive and protected turns with FYAs, mainly because AFAIK, in the US there is no such thing as a FGA, and it would certainly look out of place if it were. BTW, the FGA may be the closest thing to being the Canadian version of the FYA.

[Mr Kite]

I don't see the point, personally. Most of the world gets by with just a steady-lit green arrow.

My takeaway would be to not use bimodal arrows if they're such a problem. But I bet the problem is somewhat overegged.

[andrepoiy]

In the OP, the same clip was posted twice. Also, I noticed that the flashing green arrow (or FGA, if you will) flashed a bit quicker than what we Americans are accustomed to. Then again, when I was a kid, pedestrian WALK/walking man signals were flashing before they switched over to steady, but I digress.

Even after viewing the clip, I strongly prefer the American way of handling permissive and protected turns with FYAs, mainly because AFAIK, in the US there is no such thing as a FGA, and it would certainly look out of place if it were. BTW, the FGA may be the closest thing to being the Canadian version of the FYA.

The same clip was posted twice, however, the link I shared is supposed to start the video at a certain point. Unfortunately for some reason, on this forum, it doesn't actually work.

[jakeroot]

Also, I noticed that the flashing green arrow (or FGA, if you will) flashed a bit quicker than what we Americans are accustomed to. Then again, when I was a kid, pedestrian WALK/walking man signals were flashing before they switched over to steady, but I digress.

They are set to 120 flashes/minute.

For anyone interested, here is another example. This is in Richmond, BC:

https://youtu.be/65MP7m4qTtA