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US-412: ARDot scheduling public comment meeting on corridor planning

Started by MikieTimT, May 01, 2019, 12:30:25 AM

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MikieTimT

http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx
Opportunity to check out the current plans and chime in on recommendations.

http://ardot.gov/412.aspx
This has more info on the general plans for 412 and some of the results of previous open house meetings.


M86

Quote from: MikieTimT on May 01, 2019, 12:30:25 AM
http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx
Opportunity to check out the current plans and chime in on recommendations.
http://ardot.gov/412.aspx
This has more info on the general plans for 412 and some of the results of previous open house meetings.

A blast from the past. The 1998 corridor study was an interesting read!
ArDOT needs to do more of this.

And the Siloam Springs improvements vs. the bypass was a mistake.

In_Correct

Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

MikieTimT

Quote from: M86 on May 02, 2019, 02:58:43 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 01, 2019, 12:30:25 AM
http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx
Opportunity to check out the current plans and chime in on recommendations.
http://ardot.gov/412.aspx
This has more info on the general plans for 412 and some of the results of previous open house meetings.

A blast from the past. The 1998 corridor study was an interesting read!
ArDOT needs to do more of this.

And the Siloam Springs improvements vs. the bypass was a mistake.

A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south.  I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from.  They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.

Bobby5280

I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.
I can never tell if the Breezewood situation is an insult to a certain situation or a noteworthy example.
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

Road Hog

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.
One of the few instances where OK got a leg up on AR: They built a turnpike right up to the border. They finally got AR off its duff to finish I-540 (now I-49).

Bobby5280

Are you talking about the Cherokee Turnpike? That stops short of the AR border by a little over 8 miles. It turns into a regular 4-lane expressway at Dripping Springs. Then there's the 27 mile non-freeway gap between the West end of the turnpike and the Tulsa metro.

rte66man

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 10:30:21 PM
Are you talking about the Cherokee Turnpike? That stops short of the AR border by a little over 8 miles. It turns into a regular 4-lane expressway at Dripping Springs. Then there's the 27 mile non-freeway gap between the West end of the turnpike and the Tulsa metro.

Ah but ODOT is SLOWLY upgrading it to a freeway.  At the rate it is scheduled on the 8 Year Plan, it will be 2250 before they make it to Chouteau :)
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Bobby5280


The Ghostbuster

How much of US 412 in Arkansas might warrant an expansion to four lanes? How many bypasses might need to be constructed along the corridor?

Bobby5280

The US-412 corridor needs to be a super highway from Tulsa to I-49. Upgrades of US-412 East of I-49 is probably tougher to sell.

Wayward Memphian

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 04, 2019, 03:02:32 PM
How much of US 412 in Arkansas might warrant an expansion to four lanes? How many bypasses might need to be constructed along the corridor?

Do you mean 4 lane, divided, limited access in many parts? All of it. The state needs a NWA to NEA corridor  and cut out the down and up Conway/ Little Rock routing that persists today.  The idea that the fadteat way to get from Fayetteville to Jonesboro  envolves a drive feom Conway to Beebe is insane but that IS the routing of today.

Tomahawkin

Man, I used to hate going through those Speedtraps between Beebe and Conway along US 64 When I had to drive from Jonesboro to Fayetteville

Wayward Memphian

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 06, 2019, 09:34:54 AM
Man, I used to hate going through those Speedtraps between Beebe and Conway along US 64 When I had to drive from Jonesboro to Fayetteville

Go ahead and day it, Vilonia

Tomahawkin

Yep, that's it. I opined that 412 should be 4 lanes across the state 15 years ago...

M86

Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south.  I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from.  They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.

Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.

It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).


Avalanchez71


Scott5114

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

MikieTimT

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.

I take it across the state to go from Fayetteville to Jonesboro at least twice a year for work.  It is NOT sufficient to be a 2 lane across the state.  I don't necessarily agree that it needs to be 4-lane divided all the way across at this point, but it certainly does all the way to Harrison with all of the NWA to Branson traffic that takes that route in tourist season.  If you pull up Google Maps and try to navigate between Fayetteville and Jonesboro, the 2 fastest growing MSAs in Arkansas, the most direct route by 35 miles is US-412/US-63.  But it takes 34 minutes longer to take the direct route because of the inability to pass trucks along many stretches of the journey due to insufficient passing zones/lanes.  With about 4 more passing lanes up hills/mountains in either direction, between 10 to 15 minutes would be shaved off on the current alignment.  But a new alignment expressway between Huntsville and Harrison would make the current detour down to Conway/Beebe a moot point in and of itself.  And it's my assertion that Alpena AND Harrison should be bypassed to the south, which would shave off another 20 minutes just not having to stop and go through Harrison.

I just wish that Huntsville was closer to chime in with my ideas.  It sucks to be gainfully employed with these meetings during the workweek almost an hour away.

MikieTimT

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.

It is.  HPC-8.  Trouble is, Arkansas has 4 HPCs to deal with (HPC-1, HPC-8, HPC-18, HPC-89), and the federal govt. isn't putting the high priority on them that the Congressional mandate should entail when it comes to the funding end of things.  Arkansas is generally a pay-as-you-get-funds state and doesn't run debts as poor states shouldn't, else they can quickly get into trouble.  We have in the past voted ourselves fractional cent sales taxes to issue and retire bonds specifically for specified projects, and that is why we've even been able to do what we have in the last couple of decades.  But Arkansas, whether we like it or not, is a middle of the country transit state when it comes to traffic flows, other than Wal-Mart or eco-tourism that brings visitors in.

US71

ARDOT: planning for last week, tomorrow.

IMO, they should finish the Springdale bypass before taking anything else on.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

MikieTimT

Quote from: M86 on May 07, 2019, 02:05:53 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south.  I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from.  They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.

Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.

It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).

What road lighting policy would you be referring to?  I didn't know we had one. :hmmm:

MikieTimT

Quote from: US71 on May 07, 2019, 11:21:03 AM
ARDOT: planning for last week, tomorrow.

IMO, they should finish the Springdale bypass before taking anything else on.

And if by some miracle I can actually attend this meeting, that would be my first comment as well.  Sunset through Springdale and 112 between 412 and the bypass are congested nightmares.  At least on Sunset, you do have the possibility of getting around someone doing 5 to 10 less than the speed limit.

M86

Quote from: MikieTimT on May 07, 2019, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: M86 on May 07, 2019, 02:05:53 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south.  I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from.  They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.

Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.

It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).

What road lighting policy would you be referring to?  I didn't know we had one. :hmmm:

Well, that's the thing, you don't. Are you with ArDOT? AHTD (then) had a policy of not installing roadway lighting on state maintained and Interstates. They left all of that to local agencies.



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