Dallas: Loop 12 north improvement study preliminary options

[MaxConcrete]

http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0353-05-124_NWH_Loop12_VPM_Presentation_FINAL.pdf

This presentation shows preliminary options under study for Loop 12 between Hillcrest and Inwood. While I visited that area only occasionally when I lived in Dallas (and never at peak periods), I viewed it as an area to be avoided due to the usual backups at Preston and the DNT.

This is a very difficult area to implement improvements. All the options have at least one poison pill. That's why I think the No-build or operational improvements options have the best chance of being selected. I think they need to add another option which has intersection improvement, such as dual left-turn lanes and right turn lanes. That would be relatively inexpensive with right-of-way needed at intersections only.

The fact that they have depictions of the tunnel portals makes me think it is actually being seriously considered. The depictions show the "extended bypass" option, and the shorter "bypass" option ends at Pickwick Lane just east of Preston. Of course a tunnel would be nice, but the cost will likely be outrageous.

Poison pills
Road diet: makes traffic worse on Loop 12 and adjacent streets
BRT which maintains 6 general traffic lanes: requires a lot of right-of-way and prevents dual left turns at intersections
Elevated: This would be best for traffic flow at an affordable price, but there will surely be objections to the visual and noise impacts
Tunnel: super expensive

My choice: operational improvements and intersection improvements.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'd go for either the tunnel or the BRT option. Please for the love of god no road diets. I find it weird though that in the road diet scenario they simply remove a lane of traffic not adding anything other than a bike lane. I would think they would convert a lane to bus only. Hopefully that doesn't happen though.

My guess is operational or no build option is chosen. Will the road at least be reconstructed as is if the no build option is chosen?

[-- US 175 --]

One problem with the tunnel would be similar to what was encountered at the last minute with the recent I-635 work between Hillcrest and I-35E:  the Dallas N. Tollway goes below Loop 12-NW Highway.  If a tunnel were considered, the Tollway would also have to be lowered to accomodate it.

I see this possible project getting all kinds of blowback from nearby residents.

Another NW Highway study site:
https://nwhstudy.com/

[kernals12]

http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0353-05-124_NWH_Loop12_VPM_Presentation_FINAL.pdf

This presentation shows preliminary options under study for Loop 12 between Hillcrest and Inwood. While I visited that area only occasionally when I lived in Dallas (and never at peak periods), I viewed it as an area to be avoided due to the usual backups at Preston and the DNT.

This is a very difficult area to implement improvements. All the options have at least one poison pill. That's why I think the No-build or operational improvements options have the best chance of being selected. I think they need to add another option which has intersection improvement, such as dual left-turn lanes and right turn lanes. That would be relatively inexpensive with right-of-way needed at intersections only.

The fact that they have depictions of the tunnel portals makes me think it is actually being seriously considered. The depictions show the "extended bypass" option, and the shorter "bypass" option ends at Pickwick Lane just east of Preston. Of course a tunnel would be nice, but the cost will likely be outrageous.

Poison pills
Road diet: makes traffic worse on Loop 12 and adjacent streets
BRT which maintains 6 general traffic lanes: requires a lot of right-of-way and prevents dual left turns at intersections
Elevated: This would be best for traffic flow at an affordable price, but there will surely be objections to the visual and noise impacts
Tunnel: super expensive

My choice: operational improvements and intersection improvements.

There's no reason elevated highways need to be ugly, just look at the 6th Avenue Bridge currently under construction in Los Angeles

[Bobby5280]

Northpark Mall has some nice shops, but I've generally avoided visiting that part of Dallas for many years due to how bad traffic can be around the area of Loop 12 and North Central Expressway. Back in the 1990's I visited that area frequently because the best theaters in the DFW area where there in that part of Dallas.

My favorite movie theater in the region, the General Cinemas Northpark 1-2, was on the north side of the mall property. It was a modest looking theater from the outside. But inside it was impressive. The #1 auditorium had around 1200 seats (screen #2 had around 900). House #1 had one of the original THX certified sound systems introduced in 1983 with the release of Return of the Jedi. IIRC only 5 or 6 theaters in the US (mainly in LA and Dallas-Fort Worth) were part of the original THX roll-out. The techs at the Northpark 1-2 re-tuned the sound system for each movie, something that is done only with premiere-class theaters. The dynamics of the sound system were startling and the EQ was first rate; this theater's sound system was better sounding than any theater I visited in New York City. The theater was able to show movies on 35mm and 70mm film as well as play various digital audio formats. As good as this theater was, it didn't have stadium seating. That became all the rage. The mall owners then refused to renew the theater's lease. The GCC Northpark 1-2 closed in 1998 to make room for mall expansion. The United Artists Theater on the other side of the expressway had a number of 70mm-equipped screens. It closed not long after the Northpark 1-2.

Getting back on topic, I don't know how anyone could do any significant alternation to Loop 12 in the neighborhoods West of Northpark Mall. The existing road is a pretty tight squeeze between some pretty expensive properties. An elevated highway would be geometrically practical to build. Politically speaking, an elevated highway in that location has no chance.

[kphoger]

I've generally avoided visiting that part of Dallas for many years due to how bad traffic can be around the area of Loop 12 and North Central Expressway.

I've only driven through Dallas–rather than Fort Worth–on one round trip, back in 2009.  In order to avoid downtown, I got off I-35E at Loop-12, continued on Spur-408, then used I-20 to get back to I-35E.  Same thing in reverse for the northbound trip.

However, because of what seems to me like unpredictable traffic backups in that area, I plan to use the PGBT and I-20 instead on an upcoming trip this summer.  That route adds 5½ miles as well as tolls (compared to Loop-12), but I expect the comparatively relaxing nature of the drive to be easily worth it.  I get tense in thick traffic, which is why I've completely avoided the Metroplex since 2014–when I was already running behind, a tractor-trailer overturned and blocked the entire northbound I-35W, and the alternate route I chose had construction and an accident of its own–even though I've done four trips to Mexico since then.

[Bobby5280]

At least Loop 12 and Spur 408 from the split with I-35E down to I-20 is all freeway.

The portion of Loop 12 going East of I-35E (aka Northwest Highway) is nothing more than a busy surface street with 3 lanes for each direction. The junction of Loop 12 and I-35 is a busy "restaurant row" of sorts. Storey Lane (Spur 482) funnels a bunch of traffic onto Northwest Highway at that Y split. The curve around the North side of Bachman Lake can get backed up at the stop lights. The stretch through University Park is a little better. But when it gets over by Northpark Mall and the junction with North Central Expressway it can turn into a real slog.

I think the stretch of Loop 12 between I-35E and North Central Expressway would be better if there wasn't so many access points (and driveways) dumping out directly into it. It's just an example of how outdated the surface street grid is in that part of Dallas. You have to go into the farther most suburbs to find more contemporary street layouts that limit the number of access points onto a main thoroughfare. When you get into the more dense parts of Plano or Richardson every street in the housing addition is dumping off into the main arterials. Badly inefficient. Belt Line Road is insane.

[Plutonic Panda]

Just curious but does anyone think TxDOT ever widens the central expressway again?

[Bobby5280]

Widen North Central Expressway? Yeesh! I remember how much of a mess the previous widening project was back in the early to mid 1990's. And the resulting 8-lane freeway featured access roads hanging over parts of the freeway.

Adding more capacity to North Central Expressway would be exceedingly difficult. You would have to build upward, not outward. An elevated freeway on top of a depressed freeway would not be popular in that part of town. And how would one build such a double deck freeway with the DART line running underneath it from the Woodall Rogers interchange up to Mockingbird Lane?

[Plutonic Panda]

Have you seen the tunnel proposal in Austin! LOL. I do wonder if Central Expressway widening would be too big for even TxDOT. It would need a minimum of 7 lanes each way.

[Bobby5280]

I've seen the tunnel concepts for I-35. It's pretty radical and costly. But, geometrically speaking, there may be no other alternative to widen I-35 in that part of Austin.

The existing DART line underneath North Central Expressway in Dallas would be a pretty bad obstacle for such a freeway tunnel concept there. Building new lanes elevated over the existing freeway seems like the only possible alternative there. Just setting new bridge piers would be a serious challenge. Where can you build them?