Dear AHTD (overlap signage in Arkansas)

[bugo]

I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to this question: why are state routes rarely signed on their duplexes with US highways and why are US and state highways almost never posted on Interstates?  Yeah, yeah, I know that Arkansas uses sections and only rarely do these sections actually overlap.  Arkansas used to be very good at co-signing duplexed highways, up until the '90s.  Don't give me "Dothan" as an excuse either.  I recently visited Mena, and heading west on AR 8 at the junction with US 59-71, there is no signage confirming that AR 8 turns left and there are no AR 8 or 88 trailblazers along US 71 like there used to be.  If you're trying to follow AR 8 or AR 88 through Mena by following signage alone, you're going to get lost.  Instead of "Take AR 8 from Norman to Rocky" you now have to say "Take AR 8 to US 59-71 to AR 8".  It's confusing and frankly quite stupid and an embarrassment to the state.  The state highway department needs to make navigation around the state easier, not harder.  Another thing that annoys me is the relatively new practice of putting "TO" banners above one of the highways in the duplex.  An example is the AR 27-28 duplex near Rover.  This is ridiculous, and a waste of signs to boot.

This is what the signage in Mena looked like a few years back.  Is this confusing to you?  Is AHTD (the organization, not the poster) saying that Arkansans are too dumb to understand that 3 or 4 or more routes can be piggybacked on the same road?  That is quite insulting if that is the case.

[hotdogPi]

Now, some states do it at the other extreme. Like New Hampshire, which always signs "JCT" for the routes you're on (plus the actual one being junctioned). At least you can tell which route you're on, but it's not a junction if you're on it!

[bugo]

Heading northbound on US 59-270 in Spiro, OK, there is a sign assembly that says JCT US 59/271/OK 9, when the sign should just say "JCT OK 9".  This is overkill, but is preferable to not signing quarter mile overlaps.  Oklahoma is very good at signing piggybacks, at least in the Tulsa district.  Not so good in the OKC office, as OK 66 is not signed in OKC very often if at all.

[US71]

Heading northbound on US 59-270 in Spiro, OK, there is a sign assembly that says JCT US 59/271/OK 9, when the sign should just say "JCT OK 9".  This is overkill, but is preferable to not signing quarter mile overlaps.  Oklahoma is very good at signing piggybacks, at least in the Tulsa district.  Not so good in the OKC office, as OK 66 is not signed in OKC very often if at all.

Colorado doesn't co-sign at all along Interstate Highways.

Mississippi is a hodge-podge.

[M86]

AHTD... Why is this? 

If I'm traveling on US 62 from Eureka Springs towards I-540 (Future I-49)... And I want to follow US 62 into Oklahoma... Where are the signs?  And why are they sporadic?  It's very random with state highways... Why can't there be a standard?  And not based by visiting Dothan, Alabama.

[bugo]

AHTD... Why is this? 

If I'm traveling on US 62 from Eureka Springs towards I-540 (Future I-49)... And I want to follow US 62 into Oklahoma... Where are the signs?  And why are they sporadic?  It's very random with state highways... Why can't there be a standard?  And not based by visiting Dothan, Alabama.

What if you're trying to go from, say, Dumas to Harrison?  Both towns are on US 65, but to follow the signed route you must take US 65 to I-530 to I-30 to I-40 to US 65, when it would be much simpler to just take US 65.  Either AHTD is lazy, cheap, or full of contempt for motorists. 

[NE2]

What if you're trying to go from, say, Dumas to Harrison?  Both towns are on US 65, but to follow the signed route you must take US 65 to I-530 to I-30 to I-40 to US 65, when it would be much simpler to just take US 65.  Either AHTD is lazy, cheap, or full of contempt for motorists. 

Bad example, because US 65 is signed where necessary:



(It's also an argument for moving U.S. Routes onto parallel Interstates wherever possible.)

[bugo]

There's a highway in west central Arkansas (I think it's AR 41) that has a 1/4 mile gap in it where it has a hidden duplex with another highway.  How hard would it be to place a few extra signs up so you can follow the highway?

[cjk374]

There's a highway in west central Arkansas (I think it's AR 41) that has a 1/4 mile gap in it where it has a hidden duplex with another highway.  How hard would it be to place a few extra signs up so you can follow the highway?

Exactly....but they made darn sure to put up all the signage needed to sign one of the most useless overlaps in this area:  US 63 from El Dorado to Jct. City, so that it could continue into Louisiana (a dead horse that has taken plenty of beatings here).

But then no signage is applied so that someone can follow it from I-55 to where ever it becomes its own "independent" highway again? 

[bugo]

Surprisingly enough, US 59, duplexed with either US 71 or US 270 the entire way, is fully signed in Arkansas.

[US71]

Surprisingly enough, US 59, duplexed with either US 71 or US 270 the entire way, is fully signed in Arkansas.

Also along State Line Rd where 59 has been gone from for a number of years.
--

What's silly to me is US 64 is still posted along US 65B in Conway, except it's TO West (East) 64.  The TO seems a bit redundant and a waste of resources since 64 is already posted.

[bugo]

Surprisingly enough, US 59, duplexed with either US 71 or US 270 the entire way, is fully signed in Arkansas.

Also along State Line Rd where 59 has been gone from for a number of years.
--

What's silly to me is US 64 is still posted along US 65B in Conway, except it's TO West (East) 64.  The TO seems a bit redundant and a waste of resources since 64 is already posted.

Are you joking? 

[US71]

I'll be down there this weekend, so I'll try to get a few photos

UPDATE
I found an overlap for 71/59 in Texarkana on NB Stateline Rd at 8th St


59 hasn't been through here since at least 1980.

[M86]

In Rogers, I've seen a few instances where AHTD did sign multiplexes/conjoining routes... Just east of the worst intersection in Benton County (US 62/Hudson, and N 8th Street/who knows what state highway it is), there is an assembly that lists US 62/AR 94/AR 12.  I don't think we've figured out AR 12 alignment yet.

[US71]

In Rogers, I've seen a few instances where AHTD did sign multiplexes/conjoining routes... Just east of the worst intersection in Benton County (US 62/Hudson, and N 8th Street/who knows what state highway it is), there is an assembly that lists US 62/AR 94/AR 12.  I don't think we've figured out AR 12 alignment yet.

Well, if you follow only the free standing signs, it follows Bus 71 from Rainbow Curve to 8th St in Rogers, then north on 8th (AR 94)  to Hudson Rd (Hwy 62) then east to 2nd St, south on 2nd to Locust, then east on Locust towards Beaver Lake.

If you believe the exit signs on 540,  12 jumps on the interstate at 71B, off on Hudson (US 62) , east to Second, etc.

Maybe it's a trick to keep trucks off 71B ? 

[M86]

In Rogers, I've seen a few instances where AHTD did sign multiplexes/conjoining routes... Just east of the worst intersection in Benton County (US 62/Hudson, and N 8th Street/who knows what state highway it is), there is an assembly that lists US 62/AR 94/AR 12.  I don't think we've figured out AR 12 alignment yet.

Well, if you follow only the free standing signs, it follows Bus 71 from Rainbow Curve to 8th St in Rogers, then north on 8th (AR 94)  to Hudson Rd (Hwy 62) then east to 2nd St, south on 2nd to Locust, then east on Locust towards Beaver Lake.

If you believe the exit signs on 540,  12 jumps on the interstate at 71B, off on Hudson (US 62) , east to Second, etc.

Maybe it's a trick to keep trucks off 71B ? 

In my opinion, Arkansas State Routes are useless in urban areas, especially NWA.   The purpose of a route is to follow it.  If you tried to follow AR 72 or AR 12 in Bentonville/Rogers, you would be driving for days, because of signage, since AHTD can't get that whole signage thing right.

It'd be best to just get rid of state routes in urban areas, and simplify it.

[US71]

In my opinion, Arkansas State Routes are useless in urban areas, especially NWA.   The purpose of a route is to follow it.  If you tried to follow AR 72 or AR 12 in Bentonville/Rogers, you would be driving for days, because of signage, since AHTD can't get that whole signage thing right.

IMO, 72 is worse than 12 because WB, it simply "ends" at the US 71 Freeway.   EB, I think it's (at least) trailblazed along 71B and 102.  I need to get back up that way and verify one of these days.

Of course, there's also the intersection of 8th & Walnut in Rogers where 12 shifts north along 94, but the sign on the light pole says something like "Scenic 12 (straight) "

[M86]

IMO, 72 is worse than 12 because WB, it simply "ends" at the US 71 Freeway.   EB, I think it's (at least) trailblazed along 71B and 102.  I need to get back up that way and verify one of these days.

Of course, there's also the intersection of 8th & Walnut in Rogers where 12 shifts north along 94, but the sign on the light pole says something like "Scenic 12 (straight) "

AR 72 and 12 are just lost State Routes.  It's a huge mess.  The city of Rogers has random "Scenic 12" signage.
And it sucks, because AR 12 leads to Prairie Creek & Hobbs State Area, and Beaver Lake. 

Good luck following AR 12 to anything.

[AHTD]

I'll be down there this weekend, so I'll try to get a few photos

UPDATE
I found an overlap for 71/59 in Texarkana on NB Stateline Rd at 8th St


59 hasn't been through here since at least 1980.

U.S. Highway 59 does run concurrently with U.S. Highway 71 from Texarkana to Acorn and then with U.S. Highway 270 into Oklahoma.

[US71]

I'll be down there this weekend, so I'll try to get a few photos

UPDATE
I found an overlap for 71/59 in Texarkana on NB Stateline Rd at 8th St


59 hasn't been through here since at least 1980.

U.S. Highway 59 does run concurrently with U.S. Highway 71 from Texarkana to Acorn and then with U.S. Highway 270 into Oklahoma.

59 runs with 71 from I-30 at Texarkana up to Acorn. But my photo is at US 67/US 82 where 59 used to be before TxDOT built the 59 Freeway. I suppose if it was posted as 71, TO 59 it would still be valid.

[Alps]

I'll be down there this weekend, so I'll try to get a few photos

UPDATE
I found an overlap for 71/59 in Texarkana on NB Stateline Rd at 8th St


59 hasn't been through here since at least 1980.

U.S. Highway 59 does run concurrently with U.S. Highway 71 from Texarkana to Acorn and then with U.S. Highway 270 into Oklahoma.

59 runs with 71 from I-30 at Texarkana up to Acorn. But my photo is at US 67/US 82 where 59 used to be before TxDOT built the 59 Freeway. I suppose if it was posted as 71, TO 59 it would still be valid.

Dear AHTD:
Please don't fix this. Roadgeeks love errors, and this isn't a bad one because it DOES lead to US 59 North straight ahead.

Dear AHTD:
If you do fix this, please send me the shield. I'll pay more than you can get for scrap, and I'll cover shipping.

[NE2]

Dear AHTD:
Fix it by moving the US 59 down and adding a TO plate.

[US71]

Dear AHTD:
Please don't fix this. Roadgeeks love errors, and this isn't a bad one because it DOES lead to US 59 North straight ahead.

Dear AHTD:
If you do fix this, please send me the shield. I'll pay more than you can get for scrap, and I'll cover shipping.

If memory serves correct, the sign would likely be "recycled": the old decal (is that what you call them? I know they are basically heat treated stick-ons) is stripped off and a new one put in its place.

[AHTD]

I'll be down there this weekend, so I'll try to get a few photos

UPDATE
I found an overlap for 71/59 in Texarkana on NB Stateline Rd at 8th St


59 hasn't been through here since at least 1980.

U.S. Highway 59 does run concurrently with U.S. Highway 71 from Texarkana to Acorn and then with U.S. Highway 270 into Oklahoma.

59 runs with 71 from I-30 at Texarkana up to Acorn. But my photo is at US 67/US 82 where 59 used to be before TxDOT built the 59 Freeway. I suppose if it was posted as 71, TO 59 it would still be valid.

Dear AHTD:
Please don't fix this. Roadgeeks love errors, and this isn't a bad one because it DOES lead to US 59 North straight ahead.

Dear AHTD:
If you do fix this, please send me the shield. I'll pay more than you can get for scrap, and I'll cover shipping.

Ha! Ha! We'll see if we can get the purchase of this "error" into our next bid letting,

[yakra]

Dear AHTD:
Fix it by moving the US 59 down and adding a TO plate.

Seconded.