Reddit CEO Says Paywalls are Coming Soon

[Scott5114]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

It amazes me that you think this is a "relatively recent phenomenon."

I'm sure Steve Huffman is grateful for your support.

[formulanone]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

Fair enough, everything does not have to be a business, but if AARoads acquired a million users, it would need to defray those server costs somehow. We're probably at 1% of that, with a mere 300-400 regularly-contributing visitors.

Naturally, I can't quite imagine that many users joining, unless every mapping program also went to a paid model, forcing many to ask us for directions...

[vdeane]

I feel as though Reddit is one of these things I'm told is important only on this forum.  I don't believe that I've encountered anyone in my regular life who has claimed to be a site user.  If they are users, it doesn't come up in conversation.  I guess that I don't really get who the platform is for?

I was surprised to see Reddit had $1.30 billion in revenue last year.  A $484 million net loss doesn't seem to be an indicator of a healthy business model.  I suspect this subscription idea is a move made out of desperation.

People who want to discuss things with other internet users who don't want to use Discord and don't have access to forums like this one.  It's the best place to go if you want to discuss certain fandoms, for instance.  I also regularly check the local subs for Albany and Rochester (in fact, I'm finding that Reddit is a better source of local news than the local TV stations these days, which is scary).  I've even found that r/Politics is taking an increasing percentage of my time given recent chaos.

[Scott5114]

Fair enough, everything does not have to be a business, but if AARoads acquired a million users, it would need to defray those server costs somehow. We're probably at 1% of that, with a mere 300-400 regularly-contributing visitors.

Naturally, I can't quite imagine that many users joining, unless every mapping program also went to a paid model, forcing many to ask us for directions...

Of course, part of what makes AARoads what it is, is that it doesn't have a million users. If it did, I probably wouldn't find it very enjoyable. I don't really care for many of the million-user social media platforms. The only way to manage such a thing is by bringing in automated rule enforcement. I'm aware some people think I totally suck as an admin, but at least you can yell at me when I fuck something up, and sometimes I'll change my mind about stuff as a result. It's a lot harder to hold corporate social media accountable when a great deal of the moderation is done by computer programs.

What would probably be the most sustainable for the communities and users of Reddit would be if they broke off onto independently run and hosted forums like this one. The problem is that it's very hard to get a userbase to go from a big brand name site to an independent site. I don't know if it's inertia or marketing spend or what but people get too attached to the huge brand names and it's hard to get them to quit the habit. Hell, AARoads Wiki has been around for upwards of a year and we still haven't got people on this site to quit linking to Wikipedia despite the fact that the road articles there are no longer maintained.

[SEWIGuy]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

It amazes me that you think this is a "relatively recent phenomenon."

I'm sure Steve Huffman is grateful for your support.

I have no idea who that is.

[SEWIGuy]

Reddit is practically an institution at this point.  It going behind a paywall would be a fundamental change in the way people use the internet.  Well, it certainly would be for me, anyways.  I'd have to get an account (which would increase my time commitment, since then I'd feel more obligated to keep up with things), and browsing without an account would be a thing of the past.  The tendency of Reddit mods to ban people at the drop of a hat would also be a bigger deal, since being able to browse without an account would be no more.  Where would I go?  Internet forums are practically dead outside of this one, and I don't know enough people who share my interests and tendency for deep discussion to keep me happy.  And I'd have to find something else to do with my time.

The world has built itself around a free Reddit.  Heck, just look at the number of people who end up appending "site:reddit.com" to the end of their searches to get more useful results.  I do it all the time.  It's pretty much required if you want advise or thoughts from regular people and not some watered-down corporate article that might not even be on what you really want.

Like it or not, people have built up an expectation of Reddit being free from more than a decade of history of it being so, with no indication that it would ever be otherwise.

Yes. It would be annoying and inconvenient if Reddit would be put behind a paywall.

But nothing you are describing above comes close to "morally repugnant" or "should be illegal." Perspective would be nice.

[GaryV]

I'm sure Steve Huffman is grateful for your support.

I have no idea who that is.

See the first post in this thread

[hotdogPi]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet:

The quote in the OP says a "new type of subreddit" would be paywalled. This means that existing subreddits, if they could at all, would consciously have to want to switch to paywalled to do so, and I would imagine the vast majority would choose not to.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

Fair enough, everything does not have to be a business, but if AARoads acquired a million users, it would need to defray those server costs somehow. We're probably at 1% of that, with a mere 300-400 regularly-contributing visitors.

Naturally, I can't quite imagine that many users joining, unless every mapping program also went to a paid model, forcing many to ask us for directions...

I feel as though Reddit is one of these things I'm told is important only on this forum.  I don't believe that I've encountered anyone in my regular life who has claimed to be a site user.  If they are users, it doesn't come up in conversation.  I guess that I don't really get who the platform is for?

I was surprised to see Reddit had $1.30 billion in revenue last year.  A $484 million net loss doesn't seem to be an indicator of a healthy business model.  I suspect this subscription idea is a move made out of desperation.

People who want to discuss things with other internet users who don't want to use Discord and don't have access to forums like this one.  It's the best place to go if you want to discuss certain fandoms, for instance.  I also regularly check the local subs for Albany and Rochester (in fact, I'm finding that Reddit is a better source of local news than the local TV stations these days, which is scary).  I've even found that r/Politics is taking an increasing percentage of my time given recent chaos.

Bad time to point out that I don't use Discord either?  I missed out on that whole scene when the forum and RoadwayWiz chats moved to there. 

There was a chat started by RoadwayWiz during the early COVID times that morphed into a general road group chat.  There was something about chats being logged that people didn't like on Facebook and Discord did it different?

[kalvado]

Fair enough, everything does not have to be a business, but if AARoads acquired a million users, it would need to defray those server costs somehow. We're probably at 1% of that, with a mere 300-400 regularly-contributing visitors.

Naturally, I can't quite imagine that many users joining, unless every mapping program also went to a paid model, forcing many to ask us for directions...

Of course, part of what makes AARoads what it is, is that it doesn't have a million users. If it did, I probably wouldn't find it very enjoyable. I don't really care for many of the million-user social media platforms. The only way to manage such a thing is by bringing in automated rule enforcement. I'm aware some people think I totally suck as an admin, but at least you can yell at me when I fuck something up, and sometimes I'll change my mind about stuff as a result. It's a lot harder to hold corporate social media accountable when a great deal of the moderation is done by computer programs.

What would probably be the most sustainable for the communities and users of Reddit would be if they broke off onto independently run and hosted forums like this one. The problem is that it's very hard to get a userbase to go from a big brand name site to an independent site. I don't know if it's inertia or marketing spend or what but people get too attached to the huge brand names and it's hard to get them to quit the habit. Hell, AARoads Wiki has been around for upwards of a year and we still haven't got people on this site to quit linking to Wikipedia despite the fact that the road articles there are no longer maintained.

The other thing is the scale and reliability of a big data center. This forum was down for a few days, and it was - oh, ok, shit happens. A day of reddit offline would make it to CNN headlines.
Cost is another thing. As far as I understand, cost of running this one is absorbed by someone - hard to do that with a big data center

[jeffandnicole]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

Never said it had to be operated as a business. But it can also be operated closer to a non-profit, or just a way to defeat costs.

[Rothman]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

Fair enough, everything does not have to be a business, but if AARoads acquired a million users, it would need to defray those server costs somehow. We're probably at 1% of that, with a mere 300-400 regularly-contributing visitors.

Naturally, I can't quite imagine that many users joining, unless every mapping program also went to a paid model, forcing many to ask us for directions...

I feel as though Reddit is one of these things I'm told is important only on this forum.  I don't believe that I've encountered anyone in my regular life who has claimed to be a site user.  If they are users, it doesn't come up in conversation.  I guess that I don't really get who the platform is for?

I was surprised to see Reddit had $1.30 billion in revenue last year.  A $484 million net loss doesn't seem to be an indicator of a healthy business model.  I suspect this subscription idea is a move made out of desperation.

People who want to discuss things with other internet users who don't want to use Discord and don't have access to forums like this one.  It's the best place to go if you want to discuss certain fandoms, for instance.  I also regularly check the local subs for Albany and Rochester (in fact, I'm finding that Reddit is a better source of local news than the local TV stations these days, which is scary).  I've even found that r/Politics is taking an increasing percentage of my time given recent chaos.

Bad time to point out that I don't use Discord either?  I missed out on that whole scene when the forum and RoadwayWiz chats moved to there. 

You haven't missed anything.

[thspfc]

Should this logic extend to landlords? If an area becomes more desirable or the landlord does thorough renovations, should they not be able to raise rent for subsequent signings? How does this cooperate with inflation in general?

Ever hear of the movement for Good Cause Eviction laws?  There are people who make those demands.  I don't 100% agree with them, but my disagreement is more concern that making it difficult to evict people might cause apartments to all become glorified slums, not because of any fundamental disagreement with their intended goals.

That doesn't answer the question.

Saying that profit - specifically, the potential to make more of it - will never improve the quality of a product (if that is indeed what you mean by "why doesn't it then?") is fucking NUTS. Like one of the worst, most blatantly incorrect opinions I have heard in my life.

And yet it's been borne out by experience in my personal life. I don't buy software. Ever.

Saying that merely introducing a profit motive will improves the quality of a product is one of the most blatantly incorrect, brainwashed-American opinions I have ever heard in my life.

That's not what I said. I don't know how to be any clearer than I was. I really don't.

I was responding to your claim that profit incentives never lead to improvement of the quality of a product.

You have 3 options: 1) agree that's a ridiculous statement, 2) deny you ever said that and explain what you actually did say, or 3) explain to me why profit makes up ZERO of the motivation for a corporation to improve its product. Any response that is not one of those three options is a waste of time.

Saying that profit - specifically, the potential to make more of it - will never improve the quality of a product (if that is indeed what you mean by "why doesn't it then?") is fucking NUTS. Like one of the worst, most blatantly incorrect opinions I have heard in my life.

And for Reddit the cat has been long out of the bag.  They are and have been a for profit company.

Adding to the absurdity, the user who holds that opinion is one who from his posts is clearly super into tech. Maybe he would learn something from one of these alternate ideal worlds people love to create. In a world where tech companies weren't allowed to make profit, he wouldn't even have an online platform like this to word vomit computer acronyms.

Open source software doesn't exist now?

I never said that. I don't know how my statement could have possibly implied that I am disregarding the existence of open source software. I don't know how you can reason that such open source software would exist in the first place in the absence of profit incentives. Please do explain how that would be the case.

I think the bolded text speaks for itself here.

Do you think computers would have ever reached a level of complexity and efficiency even close to where they are now if the companies developing them couldn't make profit?

[hotdogPi]

Do you think computers would have ever reached a level of complexity and efficiency even close to where they are now if the companies developing them couldn't make profit?

Scott5114 mentioned 2010 as a turning point. I agree with this. There were significant technological advances up to 2010. After that, not so much. The only differences I see between my first computer, a 2010 MacBook Pro, and my current one (2023) are that my current one has 500 GB of memory instead of 128 GB, and Python runs twice as fast likely due to the switch from Intel to Apple silicon. That's it.

My 2016 phone (original SE) and current phone (iPhone 13, bought in 2023) differ only in that my current phone has 4× more memory and zooming in the camera truly zooms in rather than decreasing the number of pixels while keeping it at the same resolution as my old phone did.

(I can't compare lifespan; I only have one data point.  For my computers, 2010-2016 died naturally, and 2016-2019 and 2019-2023 were water damaged so it wasn't a "natural" lifespan. My first phone never died but was using half of its 16 GB memory for the system itself plus battery health was low, which is why I replaced it.)

[kphoger]

I used to participate in a different online forum, which was operated by a hobbyist in his spare time for free. Eventually, they needed to offset the costs of running the forum.  Pretty much none of the users wanted to pay for it.  Around the same time, the webmaster died.  The site closed down, never to be replaced with anything like it.  It had around 20,000 users by the end of its life, and nothing remains.

If this site needed to institute a paid subscription, then I'd understand.  That doesn't necessarily mean I'd find its value to be worth the price demanded, but I certainly shouldn't think it unethical.  I understand that things have a non-zero cost, and I don't expect hobbyists to maintain everything I use in perpetuity out of their own pocket.

Paywalling is ridiculous enough as it is. The other day, the Los Angeles Times wanted me to subscribe to access an article written in 1992.

Honestly, that makes more sense to me than charging for current news.  That article, which is no longer news, is taking up space on their server.

[kphoger]

Isn't it more a case that Reddit is one of the last major forum-like websites left?  My thought is that the format isn't  mlong for this world anyways and won't need much of a push to completely tank.

This.

I don't believe that I've encountered anyone in my regular life who has claimed to be a site user.  If they are users, it doesn't come up in conversation.  I guess that I don't really get who the platform is for?

In my opinion, Reddit's best use is to answer questions like "Recommendations for an inexpensive vacuum cleaner?" or "Where to find a cute plus-size swimsuit for large breasted woman?".  It's where to find the opinions of real life normal people.

[Max Rockatansky]

Isn't it more a case that Reddit is one of the last major forum-like websites left?  My thought is that the format isn't  mlong for this world anyways and won't need much of a push to completely tank.

This.

I don't believe that I've encountered anyone in my regular life who has claimed to be a site user.  If they are users, it doesn't come up in conversation.  I guess that I don't really get who the platform is for?

In my opinion, Reddit's best use is to answer questions like "Recommendations for an inexpensive vacuum cleaner?" or "Where to find a cute plus-size swimsuit for large breasted woman?".  It's where to find the opinions of real life normal people.

Heh, I'll have to keep that mind when we get back state side.  I have a couple dying appliances that are going to need to be two replaced soon.

[kphoger]

Heh, I'll have to keep that mind when we get back state side.  I have a couple dying appliances that are going to need to be two replaced soon.

My general approach is to read all the comments on several threads, then see which product names pop up the most frequently.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm going to guess that most people that want something to remain free forever has never operated a business.

It can also be that people don't want some things operated as a business to begin with.

Nobody is clamoring for AARoads Inc. to make an IPO.

The apparent belief that absolutely everything must be a profit-oriented business, and the apparent tunnel vision some people have that precludes seeing possibilities outside of that, is a relatively recent phenomenon, and it's not a good one.

But it can also be operated closer to a non-profit, or just a way to recoup costs. No need to becomes millionaires (although it'll be nice).

[kphoger]

But it can also be operated closer to a non-profit, or just a way to recoup costs. No need to becomes millionaires (although it'll be nice).

My city has both for-profit and non-profit hospitals, but that doesn't make one of them free to use.

[jeffandnicole]

But it can also be operated closer to a non-profit, or just a way to recoup costs. No need to becomes millionaires (although it'll be nice).

My city has both for-profit and non-profit hospitals, but that doesn't make one of them free to use.

I think you missed my point going back to my original post.

[thspfc]

Do you think computers would have ever reached a level of complexity and efficiency even close to where they are now if the companies developing them couldn't make profit?

Scott5114 mentioned 2010 as a turning point. I agree with this. There were significant technological advances up to 2010. After that, not so much. The only differences I see between my first computer, a 2010 MacBook Pro, and my current one (2023) are that my current one has 500 GB of memory instead of 128 GB, and Python runs twice as fast likely due to the switch from Intel to Apple silicon. That's it.

Even if we accept it as the truth that no significant technological advances have been made since 2010 (absurd), that still doesn't disprove my point.

[kphoger]

I think you missed my point going back to my original post.

I wasn't disagreeing with you.  I meant that as an obvious example of how non-profit does not equal free for the user/customer.

[Scott5114]

Do you think computers would have ever reached a level of complexity and efficiency even close to where they are now if the companies developing them couldn't make profit?

Yes?

Most of the research that led to modern computing was done at universities (MIT, Berkeley, and Stanford primarily) funded by government grants, or by government agencies such as DARPA. Most of the software that undergirds modern computing (Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, Python) is open source and was developed by volunteers. (Yes, even the AI stuff that has the industry's attention—that all runs on Python.) The companies just come in after the hard work is done and package it for sale.

To fluff the capitalists up on this just reveals an ignorance of history.

[Scott5114]

But it can also be operated closer to a non-profit, or just a way to recoup costs. No need to becomes millionaires (although it'll be nice).

Yes, that's true. One way we were considering funding the AARoads Wiki when we first stood it up was to have all of the admins chip in a few bucks a month. In the end, Alex was generous enough to pick up the tab.

That kind of funding model is much better for the userbase than a subscription model. Wikipedia's banner ads are annoying but they are able to successfully fund the hosting of English Wikipedia and thousands of lesser-known sister sites (and even the image hosting for the AARoads Wiki).

"Where to find a cute plus-size swimsuit for large breasted woman?".  It's where to find the opinions of real life normal people.

Normal people get called on to help large-breasted women pick out cute swimsuits often enough to have opinions on the best places to find them? Huh, I guess there are some perks to being normal, then...