I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[roadman65]

Bottom line is you cannot have every road running perfect N-S-E-W.  Some will be very imperfect, especially in the mountains.

In this case with I-95 it does create and awkward scenario.  Maybe they should just do like VDOT did with I-64, and leave it without direction?  Use the control points as direction finder as for New Jersey its not new there, as the ACE is signed like that.

[rickmastfan67]

Pull off a QEW.  Boom, solved.

[bzakharin]

Bottom line is you cannot have every road running perfect N-S-E-W.  Some will be very imperfect, especially in the mountains.

In this case with I-95 it does create and awkward scenario.  Maybe they should just do like VDOT did with I-64, and leave it without direction?  Use the control points as direction finder as for New Jersey its not new there, as the ACE is signed like that.

And it took me a long time to get used to ACE signage. Even now, the only reason I don't get lost is that I know the route well enough. I might still get lost if I find myself using an entrance I've never used before. My mind is just trained to look for cardinal directions and not control cities.

[roadman65]

How about PennDOT with US 62?  Talk about awkward.  It is signed N-S to be consistent with NY, but it really does not run N-S in most of its alignment.  Yes in NY it does and actually the last few miles of US 62 has NB running WB which is opposite of its E Bound nature as NB is a continuation of that.

It should be changed midway through the state, but is not!

US 101 to me would confuse the hell out of me where NB becomes EB, and then becomes SB at an unsigned point.  It should have really terminated at Port Angeles as their is a ferry there to Victoria, BS. The rest of the road to Olympia should have been a Washington State Route. 

Do most people traveling to Olympia actually stay on US 101 all the way or do they leave the route and cut across the peninsula on other WA designations? 

[NJRoadfan]

The ACE is now signed east-west on newer sign installations. I wouldn't be surprised if it appears on new GSP exit signs.

[SignBridge]

Way back in the 1950's and even into the 1960's, most highways in the NYC area did not have cardinal directions. It wasn't as big a problem as you might think. For instance the Long Island Expwy. was signed to "New York" or "Midtown Tun" and to "Eastern Long Island" or "Riverhead". The New England Thruway (I-95) in Westchester was signed to "New York City" and "Connecticut" as was the parallel Hutchinson River Pkwy.

[PHLBOS]

Way back in the 1950's and even into the 1960's, most highways in the NYC area did not have cardinal directions.

Similar, for the most part, was true in Massachusetts.

[Henry]

The ACE is now signed east-west on newer sign installations. I wouldn't be surprised if it appears on new GSP exit signs.

As it should be. Now it should open the door for an extension of I-76 from Philly!

[ekt8750]

The ACE is now signed east-west on newer sign installations. I wouldn't be surprised if it appears on new GSP exit signs.

As it should be. Now it should open the door for an extension of I-76 from Philly!

And that sound you hear are groans from our friends from Jersey on this forum lol

[roadman65]

Way back in the 1950's and even into the 1960's, most highways in the NYC area did not have cardinal directions. It wasn't as big a problem as you might think. For instance the Long Island Expwy. was signed to "New York" or "Midtown Tun" and to "Eastern Long Island" or "Riverhead". The New England Thruway (I-95) in Westchester was signed to "New York City" and "Connecticut" as was the parallel Hutchinson River Pkwy.

Yes I remember in Rockland County too where most reassurence signs did not have cardinal directions and some other area signs did not have them for shields.  Junctions always used the single shield with the arrow of transit I remember seeing as well. 

However, some states still use single shields with arrows showing its routing, but still do use cardinal directions on reassurence though.

[jeffandnicole]

The ACE is now signed east-west on newer sign installations. I wouldn't be surprised if it appears on new GSP exit signs.

As it should be. Now it should open the door for an extension of I-76 from Philly!

And that sound you hear are groans from our friends from Jersey on this forum lol

And the sound of eyes rolling.  LOL

[noelbotevera]

On topic, why can't work crews doing the 295/76/42 interchange help out with this interchange when work is done with that interchange? IMO, it'd probably be done in a shorter amount of time if the two work crews and contractors and everything work together here.

[bzakharin]

On topic, why can't work crews doing the 295/76/42 interchange help out with this interchange when work is done with that interchange? IMO, it'd probably be done in a shorter amount of time if the two work crews and contractors and everything work together here.

How are the two even remotely related? They're far apart, in different states, don't involve any of the same highways, overseen by different agencies, etc

[spooky]

On topic, why can't work crews doing the 295/76/42 interchange help out with this interchange when work is done with that interchange? IMO, it'd probably be done in a shorter amount of time if the two work crews and contractors and everything work together here.

How are the two even remotely related? They're far apart, in different states, don't involve any of the same highways, overseen by different agencies, etc

Age: 11

[jeffandnicole]

On topic, why can't work crews doing the 295/76/42 interchange help out with this interchange when work is done with that interchange? IMO, it'd probably be done in a shorter amount of time if the two work crews and contractors and everything work together here.

They are 2 separate, independent projects that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.  Each state (or authority, in regards to the PA Turnpike) bids out the work and accepts the lowest bid, or lowest bid that meets all the specifications of the contract terms (it's amazing how many bidders try to change bid terms for various items).

Generally it's hard enough at one construction site to make sure the timing goes well, much less two construction sites.

In reality, the 95/PA Turnpike project was supposed to be done in conjunction with the NJ Turnpike widening project, which would make your question more sensible...as those two projects go hand-in-hand. And as we all saw, the NJ Turnpike widening project was nearly completed before the PA Turnpike ever put a shovel in the ground.

[Alps]

Helpful.

Unhelpful.

[SignBridge]

We also need to remind ourselves that the PTC is not eager to see this interchange built, because they fear it will eventually cost them toll revenue in some way. That's why they've been dragging their feet all these years. That's also why no interchange was built when I-95 was originally constructed.

Contrast this with the New Jersey Turnpike which built interchanges with I believe every Interstate that it intersects. And does all of their construction projects with an almost military style speed and efficiency.

[cl94]

We also need to remind ourselves that the PTC is not eager to see this interchange built, because they fear it will eventually cost them toll revenue in some way. That's why they've been dragging their feet all these years. That's also why no interchange was built when I-95 was originally constructed.

Actually, direct Interstate connections were not constructed because federal money wouldn't pay for interchanges with toll roads, so PTC would have had to pay for it.

[SignBridge]

Cl94, those same rules must have applied to the New York Thruway Authority and the New Jersey Turnpike Authority but they built the interchanges anyway, and apparently at their expense, so what is the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's excuse? Besides that they might fear loss of toll revenue as drivers migrate to the free Interstates.

[jwolfer]

Way back in the 1950's and even into the 1960's, most highways in the NYC area did not have cardinal directions.

Similar, for the most part, was true in Massachusetts.

Like Europe.

[jwolfer]

I am still amazed that the entire New Jersey TP and PA Turnpike were built within a couple years. Granted less environmental regs, post WW2  enthusiasm etc

[cl94]

Cl94, those same rules must have applied to the New York Thruway Authority and the New Jersey Turnpike Authority but they built the interchanges anyway, and apparently at their expense, so what is the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's problem? Besides that they might fear loss of toll revenue as drivers migrate to the free Interstates.

NYSTA often took quite a while at locations that weren't a terminus. A direct connection to I-84 is about 10 years old. That was a Breezewood and it could be a mess.

Here's a list of the connections to Interstates on the ticket (or former ticket) system:

Exit 15 (I-287): Rebuilt during construction of I-287. Was trumpet interchange to NY/NJ 17 that immediately became a Jersey freeway.
Exit 16 (Future I-86): No changes other than rebuild of toll plaza in center of interchange and realignment of EB-SB ramp that was completed pretty early on
Exit 17 (I-84): Stated above. Was a Breezewood.
Exit 19 (I-587): Never had a direct connection other than the traffic circle/roundabout
Exit 23 (I-787): Tied into existing US 9W interchange, constructed with freeway connection in mind
Exit 24 (I-87/I-90): Tied into existing Washington Avenue interchange, constructed with freeway connection planned
Exit 25 (I-890): Tied into existing NY 146 interchange (which was a later addition) with freeway in mind
Exit 25A (I-88): Built for I-88 in 1980s
Exit 26 (I-890): Built for NY 5S
Exit 34A (I-481): Built for I-481, one-time northern terminus
Exit 36 (I-81): Original interchange in same location built for US 11, replaced with mirrored interchange for I-81 when I-81 Exit 25 was built in location of original interchange
Exit 39 (I-690): Original interchange was 3/4 mile east of current location for State Fair Blvd. Signalized intersection at ramp terminus. Replaced in 1987 with current interchange.
Exit 45 (I-490): Purpose-built. Original interchange was a 3/4 cloverleaf at NY 96. If anyone has any history behind this interchange or how/if they collected tolls, please post it somewhere.
Exit 46 (I-390): Built for US 15
Exit 47 (I-490): Built for NY 19
Exit 50 (I-290): Original construction, led to NY 5
Exit 53 (I-190): Original construction, part of Thruway system

As you can see, most were tied into existing interchanges or built quite a bit later. In a couple cases, toll booths had to be moved, but that's minor compared to constructing a new interchange. It's not like NYSTA had to build everything. It's also worth noting that the I-287 and I-195 interchanges along the Turnpike weren't particularly close to any interchange per Historic Aerials. Granted, you could say the same about I-95, but it's a 10 minute drive along surface streets over 4 miles. You have a similar off-Interstate excursion getting between I-475 and the Ohio Turnpike.

[bzakharin]

We also need to remind ourselves that the PTC is not eager to see this interchange built, because they fear it will eventually cost them toll revenue in some way. That's why they've been dragging their feet all these years. That's also why no interchange was built when I-95 was originally constructed.

Contrast this with the New Jersey Turnpike which built interchanges with I believe every Interstate that it intersects. And does all of their construction projects with an almost military style speed and efficiency.

How would they lose toll revenue on the I-95 interchange? It's not like it opens up a route parallel to the Turnpike. Might even gain a little money on their part of the Turnpike bridge revenue.

As for the NJ Turnpike, again, none of the interstates take money away from it in any way except 295, with which, incidentally, there are no direct interchanges anywhere other than at the southern terminus (where 295 isn't even signed), even from the PA Extension where it crosses 295 (although I was told that the lack of interchange there is due to other interchanges in very close proximity)

[jeffandnicole]

We also need to remind ourselves that the PTC is not eager to see this interchange built, because they fear it will eventually cost them toll revenue in some way. That's why they've been dragging their feet all these years. That's also why no interchange was built when I-95 was originally constructed.

Contrast this with the New Jersey Turnpike which built interchanges with I believe every Interstate that it intersects. And does all of their construction projects with an almost military style speed and efficiency.

How would they lose toll revenue on the I-95 interchange? It's not like it opens up a route parallel to the Turnpike. Might even gain a little money on their part of the Turnpike bridge revenue.

Thank you!

I often wondered "How?" when people said this interchange would take money away from the PA Turnpike if it was built. 

If people are on 95 North wanting to continue to North Jersey/New York, etc, yes, they won't have to pay a toll, but it's all but guaranteed people on 95 North looking for the NJ Turnpike North aren't jumping on the PA Turnpike now anyway.  For those on 95 South coming from NYC, they will be crossing the bridge, paying the $5 ORT fare, and then taking the 95 South Interchange.  For the most part now, people using 95 South are just continuing on the NJ Turnpike into Delaware. 

If anything, it's the NJ Turnpike that'll lose money, although the NJ/PA Turnpike bridge surcharge covers a good portion of the money that would've been paid by continuing south on the NJ Turnpike anyway.

And finally, as for those that state the PA Turnpike would have to pay for this interchange:  They are spending hundreds of millions a year on other construction projects already.  What's the big deal about spending money for this project as well?

[vdeane]

Exit 45 (I-490): Purpose-built. Original interchange was a 3/4 cloverleaf at NY 96. If anyone has any history behind this interchange or how/if they collected tolls, please post it somewhere.

Pretty sure that cloverleaf predates the decision to toll the Thruway.