https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nbas-ultimate-christmas-wish-someday-surpassing-the-nfl/2017/12/24/0315cc12-e65c-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html?utm_term=.8189928e6401
Its an interesting read though.
Quote from: bing101 on December 25, 2017, 09:13:19 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nbas-ultimate-christmas-wish-someday-surpassing-the-nfl/2017/12/24/0315cc12-e65c-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html?utm_term=.8189928e6401
Its an interesting read though.
Would be nice to read if it wasn't behind a paywall.
I had no problem viewing it. It's The Post, so you get so many free articles in a month. Even then, if you go incognito, no problem with that limit, either.
I don't know...The NBA is a predominantly urban sport, while the NFL has always been geared towards just about all demographics across the country (both rural and urban), so I don't see how one holiday could boost one sport's threat to another. Then again, with all the recent NFL boycotts, there may be a valid point on this.
NFL could lose 4/5ths of its fans and still be light years ahead of the NBA. The NBA is an urban sport and a show for children. It is a substitute for cartoons.
Predictions of the bright NBA future ignore its fundamental niche status. It has never been able to break out of its twin niches of children and urban dwellers. The adult middle class just does not care.
The fundamental problem with the NBA, and more generally, basketball as a whole, is that the games really don't matter until the last ~five minutes of play. That, combined with the fact that there's like 100 games a season in the NBA, is a recipe for no one giving a flying hoot. It's just not interesting, at least IMO.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 26, 2017, 10:13:30 AM
NFL could lose 4/5ths of its fans and still be light years ahead of the NBA. The NBA is an urban sport and a show for children. It is a substitute for cartoons.
Predictions of the bright NBA future ignore its fundamental niche status. It has never been able to break out of its twin niches of children and urban dwellers. The adult middle class just does not care.
?
I agree that there is really no near-term threat to the NFL posed by the NBA, I would offer two long-term developments: International appeal of NBA basketball, particularly in Asia (granted, the original article mentions the American landscape) and the increased awareness of major head trauma associated with football collisions.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 26, 2017, 10:34:06 AM
The fundamental problem with the NBA, and more generally, basketball as a whole, is that the games really don't matter until the last ~five minutes of play. That, combined with the fact that there's like 100 games a season in the NBA, is a recipe for no one giving a flying hoot. It's just not interesting, at least IMO.
Concur, the regular season is quite weak. I'm a pretty big basketball fan at the college and pro levels, and I hardly follow the NBA regular season since there's not much drama within it - you pretty much know the best teams at the beginning of the season.
The playoffs are exciting though, and some of the major regular season matchups (i.e. the Christmas games).
Quote from: SP Cook on December 26, 2017, 10:13:30 AM
NFL could lose 4/5ths of its fans and still be light years ahead of the NBA. The NBA is an urban sport and a show for children. It is a substitute for cartoons.
Predictions of the bright NBA future ignore its fundamental niche status. It has never been able to break out of its twin niches of children and urban dwellers. The adult middle class just does not care.
Urban dwellers aren't middle class? Or are you using your alt-right buzzwords for "black" and "white"? And now you'll deny it. Sad, pathetic man.
"Urban" fans have the money and key youth demographic that makes media executives salivate. And, as the country continues to become more and more urban, those "urban" teams will have larger and larger followings. Hence why modern stadiums are being built closer to downtowns rather than in far-flung suburbs.
Honestly I want the NFL to fail after what they've done promotinv to protest our flag. I understand thia is a free country but no one should disrespect our anthem and flag. You can still be respectful and look for change.
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 28, 2017, 05:27:53 AM
Honestly I want the NFL to fail after what they've done promotinv to protest our flag.
That was on the players, not the league itself.
QuoteI understand thia is a free country...
Good...
Quote...but no one should disrespect our anthem and flag.
...and there's the hypocrisy. "It's only free if it doesn't insult me or my country."
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 26, 2017, 10:44:39 AM
show for children.
?
I agree that there is really no near-term threat to the NFL posed by the NBA, I would offer two long-term developments: International appeal of NBA basketball, particularly in Asia (granted, the original article mentions the American landscape) and the increased awareness of major head trauma associated with football collisions.
- Children. Yes. The ESPN/NBA playbook for promoting the sport is, more or less, the WWF's playbook from its heydays, Simplistic personality based morality plays. Get the kids and mom and/or dad have to bring them. After its urban core audience, the other niche of this niche sport is children.
- Asia. Not to be a Debby Downer, but you know what half the world will do today? The same thing they did yesterday and will do tomorrow. Engage in a desperate struggle to find enough to eat. The average URBAN Chinese makes $4.5K/year. Country folks really have no measurable income in a Western sense. To borrow from the uneducated protesters of a few years ago, China really is a 1%/99% society. And 1% of a couple billion is a still a lot, but spectator sports, like any diversion, is a product of prosperty and free time. And the 99% ain't got none.
- Head trauma. The only mistake the NFL can make is the one NASCAR made, which is listening to the "someone might get hurt" idiots. You can get hurt, and fantastically rich and famous, playing football. Same with any blue collar job, except for the fantastically rich and famous part. There will always be people willing to play football, just like there will always be Marines, oil well workers, firemen, deep sea fishermen, coal miners, and so on.
I think you're projecting some political views onto your overall take on the NBA, but this is an internet forum so that's what you'll get.
I still don't get your point about "children" and "urban" viewers, so I'd appreciate some more clarification on that.
I think your views on Chinese hunger are about 50 years out of date. Despite whatever you may read, the days of starvation in the Chinese countryside are long gone. More to the point, the influence of the Chinese market is already fully appreciated in the film industry, so I don't see why NBA and professional sports should be any different. The NFL seeks foreign markets as well (e.g. Mexico, UK) but I don't see it getting off the ground nearly as much due to the popularity of soccer in most countries.
I don't get your point about the injuries either. Are you saying that people won't watch the NFL if the league tries to limit brain trauma? My point was that football is being less popular at lower levels (i.e. high school, peewee) due to parents not wanting their kids to get brain damage at young age, which will limit the popularity of the sports.
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2017, 08:05:23 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 26, 2017, 10:13:30 AM
NFL could lose 4/5ths of its fans and still be light years ahead of the NBA. The NBA is an urban sport and a show for children. It is a substitute for cartoons.
Predictions of the bright NBA future ignore its fundamental niche status. It has never been able to break out of its twin niches of children and urban dwellers. The adult middle class just does not care.
Urban dwellers aren't middle class? Or are you using your alt-right buzzwords for "black" and "white"? And now you'll deny it. Sad, pathetic man.
Pretty sure he's including Jews with the urban dwellers, too. That one goes way back with the NBA.
Woody Allen is (was?) a pretty well-known knicks fan
It's not the Chinese fans that are the target, it's the money that comes from Chinese firms and billionaires. They've had a tremendous impact on European soccer over the last decade (note the amount of Chinese shirt sponsors and Chinese ownership of clubs like Inter Milan, Aston Villa, and Atletico Madrid) their own league boasts a lot of star players lured away with massive contracts. The Chinese wealthy want ways to show off their wealth, and sports is a great way for them to flaunt it.
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 28, 2017, 05:27:53 AM
Honestly I want the NFL to fail after what they've done promotinv to protest our flag. I understand thia is a free country but no one should disrespect our anthem and flag. You can still be respectful and look for change.
Not you too. They completely mishandled that. Look at other sports - players may kneel, or hold hands, or other silent forms of protest, and the league upholds their freedom of speech. It was entirely on the NFL to do the same, and they chose not to because their main audience is white and conservative. There, I said it. The whole thing is a rigged farce anyway - you think the Steelers would willingly let a player go straight to the Patriots when they have a playoff matchup looming? - but this is the last straw. I seriously hope the NFL is gone by 2022. I'll watch NCAA and CFL for now.
P.S. I will kneel for the anthem. I will walk on the flag if I choose. It is my way of expressing discontent with the state of the country. If you have a problem with that, get out of the country, because A#1 over here is "freedom of expression."
Quote from: Alps on December 29, 2017, 12:39:39 AM
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 28, 2017, 05:27:53 AM
Honestly I want the NFL to fail after what they've done promotinv to protest our flag. I understand thia is a free country but no one should disrespect our anthem and flag. You can still be respectful and look for change.
Not you too. They completely mishandled that. Look at other sports - players may kneel, or hold hands, or other silent forms of protest, and the league upholds their freedom of speech. It was entirely on the NFL to do the same, and they chose not to because their main audience is white and conservative. There, I said it. The whole thing is a rigged farce anyway - you think the Steelers would willingly let a player go straight to the Patriots when they have a playoff matchup looming? - but this is the last straw. I seriously hope the NFL is gone by 2022. I'll watch NCAA and CFL for now.
P.S. I will kneel for the anthem. I will walk on the flag if I choose. It is my way of expressing discontent with the state of the country. If you have a problem with that, get out of the country, because A#1 over here is "freedom of expression."
Never mind burning the flag...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
...but that's a discussion for a different forum.
Quote from: Alps on December 29, 2017, 12:39:39 AM
The whole thing is a rigged farce anyway - you think the Steelers would willingly let a player go straight to the Patriots when they have a playoff matchup looming? - but this is the last straw. I seriously hope the NFL is gone by 2022. I'll watch NCAA and CFL for now.
LOL, you can't be serious. Harrison has barely had any play time this year, and apparently there's been disagreement between him and the Steelers' coaching staff all season. Furthermore, the Patriots needed linebacker help–so why wouldn't they take a veteran on for the last game of the season + playoffs?
But nope, definitely rigged instead, because you know, 1000s of people can definitely keep a conspiracy quiet...
Harrison is 39 years old. Pats just want the Steelers' playbook from him. :D
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
Harrison is 39 years old. Pats just want the Steelers' playbook from him. :D
Exactly. And anyone with half a brain would know that and not let him walk in the last week.
Walmart will go bankrupt before the NFL does.
Quote from: Alps on December 29, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
Harrison is 39 years old. Pats just want the Steelers' playbook from him. :D
Exactly. And anyone with half a brain would know that and not let him walk in the last week.
LOL, it's not even guaranteed that the Patriots will face the Steelers in the playoffs. But sure, just keep believing that's why it happened the way it did–totally not because the Patriots have no depth at linebacker, or because Harrison wanted play time but wasn't getting any from the Steelers' coaching staff.
Quote from: Rothman on December 26, 2017, 07:52:49 AM
I had no problem viewing it. It's The Post, so you get so many free articles in a month. Even then, if you go incognito, no problem with that limit, either.
I noticed at least one paper (the Minneapolis Star-Tribune) changed their 10 free articles from starting arbitrarily on the 1st of the month to beginning the 30 days from the date you viewed your first article on their site along with no longer telling you how many articles you have left. Not sure what this was supposed to accomplish, make it trickier for freeloaders to track and entice more of them to subscribe just so they don't burn out on an article they're particularly excited about?
Quote from: SP Cook on December 28, 2017, 09:37:24 AM
- Head trauma. The only mistake the NFL can make is the one NASCAR made, which is listening to the "someone might get hurt" idiots. You can get hurt, and fantastically rich and famous, playing football. Same with any blue collar job, except for the fantastically rich and famous part. There will always be people willing to play football, just like there will always be Marines, oil well workers, firemen, deep sea fishermen, coal miners, and so on.
Not "might get hurt," but "most likely will sustain long-term brain injury that carries a real risk of shortened life and/or lifelong repercussions." But they're paid, so it's ok.
I work in a hazardous profession with daily risk of debilitating physical injury. There is no "but this project is worth a lot and we'll pay you more and not take the available precautions." I am legally required to stop myself and others from working when available precautions are not used. NFL players are not gladiators, they are employees, and are entitled to the same.
It doesn't matter what I think anyway. The NFL knows that if it loses the support of mothers that allow their kids to play football, it will destroy its future. As soon as the head injury denial began, it began marketing directly to those mothers. It is losing their support anyway.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 29, 2017, 09:18:22 PM
Walmart will go bankrupt before the NFL does.
Morally, that's been true.
In short, I don't think the NBA is going to topple NFL any time soon. The sport is just as injury-prone, and like major league baseball, still just of local interest within the same 20-25 core markets. Football is still king everywhere else and most urban markets, as well.
Most folks that swear they're not watching the NFL because of that
pesky right to free speech are usually the same ones that only watch their NCAA teams, their high school stuff, and little else involving a brown oblong ball.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 28, 2017, 09:37:24 AM
- Head trauma. The only mistake the NFL can make is the one NASCAR made, which is listening to the "someone might get hurt" idiots.
After Dale Earnhardt died in 2001, I'd guess roughly 10% of NASCAR's fan base gradually stopped tuning in within a year or so. Death has this "bad for marketing/revenue" specter that's extremely hard to shake.
We get it, you live in a very white area of the country that has no professional sports and no collegiate success in basketball. Quit moaning about it every month, nobody's forcing you to watch it anymore than a dog show or snooker.
Quote from: formulanone on December 31, 2017, 06:58:01 PM
Quit moaning about it every month, nobody's forcing you to watch it anymore than a dog show or snooker.
I'd be really, truly surprised if anything more than a dozen Americans actually watch snooker.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 01, 2018, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: formulanone on December 31, 2017, 06:58:01 PM
Quit moaning about it every month, nobody's forcing you to watch it anymore than a dog show or snooker.
I'd be really, truly surprised if anything more than a dozen Americans actually watch snooker.
The blossoming of the Internet has taught me not to underestimate how many Americans are extremely interested in anything. If there is a whole community of people that write fan fiction about the animatronic band in the defunct Showbiz Pizza Place (there is), then there is probably a bigger community of people that watch snooker.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 01, 2018, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 01, 2018, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: formulanone on December 31, 2017, 06:58:01 PM
Quit moaning about it every month, nobody's forcing you to watch it anymore than a dog show or snooker.
I'd be really, truly surprised if anything more than a dozen Americans actually watch snooker.
The blossoming of the Internet has taught me not to underestimate how many Americans are extremely interested in anything. If there is a whole community of people that write fan fiction about the animatronic band in the defunct Showbiz Pizza Place (there is), then there is probably a bigger community of people that watch snooker.
Or Snooki ? ;)