CA Questions from a NYC based road geek

[Mergingtraffic]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

When buttons were added to older signs in the 80s, were the original lettering not-reflective? I'm guessing they were added in the 80s.


Why the reluctance for external exit tabs?


when did CALTRANS adopt green backgrounds instead of black?


The font on the original black background freeway signs seems slightly different than today's highway gothic font. Is that true or just that old photos are harder to make out?

[Max Rockatansky]

Regular traffic is not prohibited from truck bypasses.  There are several use in urban areas I use to skip problematic interchanges that are prone to backups. 

The older big green signs have reflective paint, but it is nowhere nearly as reflective as modern vinyl.

Wind loading is often cited as a problem preventing external exit tabs on older gantries.  All the new gantries I've seen in the last couple years have external exit tabs. 

[Scott5114]

When buttons were added to older signs in the 80s, were the original lettering not-reflective? I'm guessing they were added in the 80s.

The older signs were originally indeed not reflective. This is because they used non-reflective porcelain enamel. This was not originally a problem because overhead signs were illuminated with lamps below the signs. During the 1970s energy crisis, the lights were shut off to save money on electricity so buttons were glued onto the non-reflective signs. You can usually tell which signs these were because the glue got nasty over the years.

Why the reluctance for external exit tabs?

California didn't even have exit numbers until 2003. When they started adding them, they indeed claim they were not added as external tabs because of wind loading reasons. I personally think it was just Caltrans being cheap.

when did CALTRANS adopt green backgrounds instead of black?

1959.

The font on the original black background freeway signs seems slightly different than today's highway gothic font. Is that true or just that old photos are harder to make out?

The very earliest black signs were weird custom fonts. By 1954, they had started using Highway Gothic, but were kind of squirrelly in its use (capital letters were often a different size and series from the lowercase). They also hadn't come up with the idea of the down arrow for lane assignment yet (there would just be a single up arrow on a "pull through"), those would show up in 1956.

What would be recognizable as modern freeway signs, in Highway Gothic, with both down and up arrows and modern shield outlines, didn't start to appear until 1958. (And of course this was one year before they adopted green, so there was an overlap where you had modern signage that was entirely modern other than being black.)

[Occidental Tourist]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

Trucks are limited to the right two lanes on freeways with three or more lanes in one direction.  The "trucks ok"  signs are to let them know of an exception where they can legally stray a little further left at a given interchange due to interchange design or traffic issues.  Where a trucks ok sign is posted over a lane arrow, a truck is allowed in that lane and every lane to its right.

[skluth]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

Trucks are limited to the right two lanes on freeways with three or more lanes in one direction.  The "trucks ok"  signs are to let them know of an exception where they can legally stray a little further left at a given interchange due to interchange design or traffic issues.  Where a trucks ok sign is posted over a lane arrow, a truck is allowed in that lane and every lane to its right.

I usually notice Trucks OK in any but the right two lanes when either there is an upcoming left exit or the freeway is losing the rightmost lane soon.

[interstatefan990]

Since I'm also an NY-based roadgeek: How strict is CHP with speed limits on urban freeways? What about Los Angeles?

[Max Rockatansky]

Since I'm also an NY-based roadgeek: How strict is CHP with speed limits on urban freeways? What about Los Angeles?

CHP isn't like to care about speed unless you are going 15-20 MPH over or you are doing something else on top of speeding to cause a hazard.

[skluth]

Where you're speeding makes a big difference, at least in So Cal. You're far more likely to be pulled over on I-40, I-15, or I-8 as most of their miles are outside the more heavily populated areas of So Cal. I see vehicles pulled over fairly frequently east of Cabazon (the east end of the I-10 mountain pass). I rarely see speeders pulled over in the Inland Empire or the LA/Orange Co area but a lot of that is just the sheer volume of traffic makes speeding difficult. Don't have any experience north of LA to judge as I'm a newer CA immigrant.

The 55 mph speed limit for trucks makes a big difference too. If you're only going 10 mph over the 70 mph limit on I-10 through the Coachella Valley (where I live), the CHP will let it slide because they know a truck will come along soon enough at the same speed to earn that 20+ mph over the limit big ticket. I see a fair number of speed traps along I-10 locally and at least half the vehicles I see pulled over are trucks.

[michravera]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

When buttons were added to older signs in the 80s, were the original lettering not-reflective? I'm guessing they were added in the 80s.


Why the reluctance for external exit tabs?


when did CALTRANS adopt green backgrounds instead of black?


The font on the original black background freeway signs seems slightly different than today's highway gothic font. Is that true or just that old photos are harder to make out?

The "TRUCKS OK" gives permission for trucks to travel in that lane (usually as well as lanes farther to the right). In California, trucks are generally restricted to the right lane except to pass in the second right lane or to the right two lanes when a freeway is 4 or more lanes in one direction. These "TRUCKS OK" signs give exceptional permission for trucks to drive in the third lane from the right. Truck bypasses are used in order to get trucks into the right two lanes when a large freeway merges with another and the merge would put them way too far to the left and they would have to mix it up with cars merging from the other direction.

[jdbx]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

When buttons were added to older signs in the 80s, were the original lettering not-reflective? I'm guessing they were added in the 80s.


Why the reluctance for external exit tabs?


when did CALTRANS adopt green backgrounds instead of black?


The font on the original black background freeway signs seems slightly different than today's highway gothic font. Is that true or just that old photos are harder to make out?

The "TRUCKS OK" gives permission for trucks to travel in that lane (usually as well as lanes farther to the right). In California, trucks are generally restricted to the right lane except to pass in the second right lane or to the right two lanes when a freeway is 4 or more lanes in one direction. These "TRUCKS OK" signs give exceptional permission for trucks to drive in the third lane from the right. Truck bypasses are used in order to get trucks into the right two lanes when a large freeway merges with another and the merge would put them way too far to the left and they would have to mix it up with cars merging from the other direction.

This question has me wondering if other states also use truck bypasses at major interchanges.  I am aware of several in Southern California along I-5, but the only one I am aware of in Northern California is where I-205 and I-580 west merge (the truck bypass being the former mainline I-580).  Are there others I am unaware of in California, or in other states?  I don't count local/express like the New Jersey Turnpike, I mean a specific signed truck bypass through interchanges.

[michravera]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

When buttons were added to older signs in the 80s, were the original lettering not-reflective? I'm guessing they were added in the 80s.


Why the reluctance for external exit tabs?


when did CALTRANS adopt green backgrounds instead of black?


The font on the original black background freeway signs seems slightly different than today's highway gothic font. Is that true or just that old photos are harder to make out?

The "TRUCKS OK" gives permission for trucks to travel in that lane (usually as well as lanes farther to the right). In California, trucks are generally restricted to the right lane except to pass in the second right lane or to the right two lanes when a freeway is 4 or more lanes in one direction. These "TRUCKS OK" signs give exceptional permission for trucks to drive in the third lane from the right. Truck bypasses are used in order to get trucks into the right two lanes when a large freeway merges with another and the merge would put them way too far to the left and they would have to mix it up with cars merging from the other direction.

This question has me wondering if other states also use truck bypasses at major interchanges.  I am aware of several in Southern California along I-5, but the only one I am aware of in Northern California is where I-205 and I-580 west merge (the truck bypass being the former mainline I-580).  Are there others I am unaware of in California, or in other states?  I don't count local/express like the New Jersey Turnpike, I mean a specific signed truck bypass through interchanges.

The one that you mention is structured this way for exactly the same reason as the CASR-99/CASR-14/I-5 bypass in Southern California. Trucks from Westbound I-580 would end up several lanes too far left, if they didn't have the bypass.

[jdbx]

OK, having never been to CA, some things I don't understand such as....

TRUCKS OK or ALT TR signing on multi lane pull through.

I see it on a few of your pics, usually over 1 down arrow. Does that mean trucks can only use that one lane?
For example:
         I-5   South
        Trucks ok
V.          V.           V

When buttons were added to older signs in the 80s, were the original lettering not-reflective? I'm guessing they were added in the 80s.


Why the reluctance for external exit tabs?


when did CALTRANS adopt green backgrounds instead of black?


The font on the original black background freeway signs seems slightly different than today's highway gothic font. Is that true or just that old photos are harder to make out?

The "TRUCKS OK" gives permission for trucks to travel in that lane (usually as well as lanes farther to the right). In California, trucks are generally restricted to the right lane except to pass in the second right lane or to the right two lanes when a freeway is 4 or more lanes in one direction. These "TRUCKS OK" signs give exceptional permission for trucks to drive in the third lane from the right. Truck bypasses are used in order to get trucks into the right two lanes when a large freeway merges with another and the merge would put them way too far to the left and they would have to mix it up with cars merging from the other direction.

This question has me wondering if other states also use truck bypasses at major interchanges.  I am aware of several in Southern California along I-5, but the only one I am aware of in Northern California is where I-205 and I-580 west merge (the truck bypass being the former mainline I-580).  Are there others I am unaware of in California, or in other states?  I don't count local/express like the New Jersey Turnpike, I mean a specific signed truck bypass through interchanges.

The one that you mention is structured this way for exactly the same reason as the CASR-99/CASR-14/I-5 bypass in Southern California. Trucks from Westbound I-580 would end up several lanes too far left, if they didn't have the bypass.

Yeah, the bulk of through traffic including trucks is actually along I-205, and I remember in the previous configuration, prior to them building the newer bridge for the I-580 mainline lanes, you were stuck having to merge between slow-moving trucks.  The transition is much smoother and safer now.

[Quillz]

Regular traffic is not prohibited from truck bypasses.  There are several use in urban areas I use to skip problematic interchanges that are prone to backups. 

And even if it was, good luck enforcing something like that. I frequently use the truck route on NB I-5 because the "standard" junction with it and CA-14 is usually slow and backed up. And on SB, I usually don't have time to move over and always end up in the truck route there.

[Quillz]

Since I'm also an NY-based roadgeek: How strict is CHP with speed limits on urban freeways? What about Los Angeles?

They really don't care unless it's clearly excessive and/or obviously dangerous. I'll admit to having gone 30 mph over the speed limit and times and nothing has happened. Frankly, the flow of traffic around here is perpetually a good 10-15 above what's posted. The 405 is officially 55, good luck keeping up with traffic if you're not doing 65-70 (realistically, you're doing 4 or 5 mph because of traffic).

[Quillz]

Where you're speeding makes a big difference, at least in So Cal. You're far more likely to be pulled over on I-40, I-15, or I-8 as most of their miles are outside the more heavily populated areas of So Cal. I see vehicles pulled over fairly frequently east of Cabazon (the east end of the I-10 mountain pass). I rarely see speeders pulled over in the Inland Empire or the LA/Orange Co area but a lot of that is just the sheer volume of traffic makes speeding difficult. Don't have any experience north of LA to judge as I'm a newer CA immigrant.

The 55 mph speed limit for trucks makes a big difference too. If you're only going 10 mph over the 70 mph limit on I-10 through the Coachella Valley (where I live), the CHP will let it slide because they know a truck will come along soon enough at the same speed to earn that 20+ mph over the limit big ticket. I see a fair number of speed traps along I-10 locally and at least half the vehicles I see pulled over are trucks.

The worst speed traps in the entire state, in my experience, are on 395. You hit Lone Pine, Independence, Big Pine, Bishop, the speed limits drop from 65 down to 25 in about a mile and they WILL pull you over if you're even 5 over. Perhaps it's because they get a lot of out-of-town motorists that aren't going to spend the time fighting the charges in court. I don't know. But my dad used to get pulled over all the time driving to Mammoth because of the damn speed traps. (Although admittedly the signs do drop gradually to make it clear of the speed reduction).

[Rothman]

When people get pulled over "all the time" along the same route, that tells me that they're slow learners.

[skluth]

Where you're speeding makes a big difference, at least in So Cal. You're far more likely to be pulled over on I-40, I-15, or I-8 as most of their miles are outside the more heavily populated areas of So Cal. I see vehicles pulled over fairly frequently east of Cabazon (the east end of the I-10 mountain pass). I rarely see speeders pulled over in the Inland Empire or the LA/Orange Co area but a lot of that is just the sheer volume of traffic makes speeding difficult. Don't have any experience north of LA to judge as I'm a newer CA immigrant.

The 55 mph speed limit for trucks makes a big difference too. If you're only going 10 mph over the 70 mph limit on I-10 through the Coachella Valley (where I live), the CHP will let it slide because they know a truck will come along soon enough at the same speed to earn that 20+ mph over the limit big ticket. I see a fair number of speed traps along I-10 locally and at least half the vehicles I see pulled over are trucks.

The worst speed traps in the entire state, in my experience, are on 395. You hit Lone Pine, Independence, Big Pine, Bishop, the speed limits drop from 65 down to 25 in about a mile and they WILL pull you over if you're even 5 over. Perhaps it's because they get a lot of out-of-town motorists that aren't going to spend the time fighting the charges in court. I don't know. But my dad used to get pulled over all the time driving to Mammoth because of the damn speed traps. (Although admittedly the signs do drop gradually to make it clear of the speed reduction).

Are those CHP or local yokels? I remember several towns when I lived in Missouri where some small towns set up speed traps so draconian that the state intervened, stating only a certain percentage of a community's income could be from traffic fines. It severely limited a few towns, bankrupted a couple, and a combination of that and a lawsuit actually led St George to disincorporate. I tend to strictly follow small town speed limits because you never know when some Barney Fife will get happy with their shiny new radar gun.