Ohio

[Buck87]

We already have an I-73 thread guys:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4507.400

[TempoNick]

The King Coal and Tolsia Highways in West Virginia are being designed and built as mostly two-lane corridor routes, with provisions for four lanes throughout. There are no provisions for a complete freeway, with the highway incorporating a mixture of interchanges at major junctions and intersections elsewhere. There are no driveways.

The "I-73/74 High Priority Corridor" signs are decades old at this point and some have been knocked down and not replaced. They hold no official designation or bearing. All funding and proposal plans have been to build the highway as a replacement for US 52 and nothing more.

The Ohio folly died when the funding package tied to the Turnpike was nixed. Michigan isn't interested, either. At best, you'd have some isolated stretches of freeway being built where needed - north and south of Columbus. And with the OH 823 bypass around Portsmouth featuring one-lane terminus ramps with absolutely no provisions for extensions or modifications to incorporate an interstate, I would consider it dead.

That's because of money isn't there. We spend it on stupid things like ukraine, but that's about to end. Once there is money again, we'll start building infrastructure again.

WVDOH isn't interested in building a full freeway. If they were, they would be building that. They want to open land for development, and allowing at-grade intersections does a much better job of that than a full freeway would.

ODOT doesn't see the point of an Interstate for this corridor. For most of its length, US 23/SR 15 are adequate. Building a brand new alignment south of Columbus to support a freeway would be duplicative, eat up lots of farmland, and not significantly improve mobility over what's there. Upgrading the existing US 23/SR 15 to a corridor to a freeway north of Waldo would be feasible but there isn't sufficient traffic to require it at this time.

Nobody is talking about a parallel route. We're talking about most of the existing route being upgraded and resigned. It will happen. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will happen.

[GCrites]

The King Coal and Tolsia Highways in West Virginia are being designed and built as mostly two-lane corridor routes, with provisions for four lanes throughout. There are no provisions for a complete freeway, with the highway incorporating a mixture of interchanges at major junctions and intersections elsewhere. There are no driveways.

The "I-73/74 High Priority Corridor" signs are decades old at this point and some have been knocked down and not replaced. They hold no official designation or bearing. All funding and proposal plans have been to build the highway as a replacement for US 52 and nothing more.

The Ohio folly died when the funding package tied to the Turnpike was nixed. Michigan isn't interested, either. At best, you'd have some isolated stretches of freeway being built where needed - north and south of Columbus. And with the OH 823 bypass around Portsmouth featuring one-lane terminus ramps with absolutely no provisions for extensions or modifications to incorporate an interstate, I would consider it dead.

That's because of money isn't there. We spend it on stupid things like ukraine, but that's about to end. Once there is money again, we'll start building infrastructure again.

WVDOH isn't interested in building a full freeway. If they were, they would be building that. They want to open land for development, and allowing at-grade intersections does a much better job of that than a full freeway would.

Years ago there was talk on here about the need for the blue signs that indicate which businesses are available withing a few miles of the freeway before interchanges since a lot of times you can see the fast food, gas stations and hotels from the freeway. I was thinking, yes... but not in Appalachia. There are way too many instances where the terrain prevents anything being seen from the freeway plus in Appalachia it's much more common for that stuff to be right downtown rather than bunched up next to the freeway. At-grades might actually be a little better for economic development in this case since there often isn't enough interest for all of those things right next to the freeway while non-interstates are less likely to get the blue signs. With at-grades they can be closer to town and less of an annoyance to just turn off for a second to see what's there or slow down to look.

[Rothman]

The King Coal and Tolsia Highways in West Virginia are being designed and built as mostly two-lane corridor routes, with provisions for four lanes throughout. There are no provisions for a complete freeway, with the highway incorporating a mixture of interchanges at major junctions and intersections elsewhere. There are no driveways.

The "I-73/74 High Priority Corridor" signs are decades old at this point and some have been knocked down and not replaced. They hold no official designation or bearing. All funding and proposal plans have been to build the highway as a replacement for US 52 and nothing more.

The Ohio folly died when the funding package tied to the Turnpike was nixed. Michigan isn't interested, either. At best, you'd have some isolated stretches of freeway being built where needed - north and south of Columbus. And with the OH 823 bypass around Portsmouth featuring one-lane terminus ramps with absolutely no provisions for extensions or modifications to incorporate an interstate, I would consider it dead.

That's because of money isn't there. We spend it on stupid things like ukraine, but that's about to end. Once there is money again, we'll start building infrastructure again.

Federal transportation funding is not being pilfered to pay for aid to Ukraine...

[TempoNick]

Federal transportation funding is not being pilfered to pay for aid to Ukraine...

You say tomato, I say tomahto. $223 million a day blown up and burned up that's either taxpayer money or running the printing presses on overdrive (debt) and further debauching the dollar is pilfering. Just think how many bridges you could build with $223 million dollars, let alone spending that very same amount each and every day on stupidities.

[The Ghostbuster]

Ohio is nowhere near Ukraine, so let's stick to issues pertaining within the state of Ohio.

[TempoNick]

Ohio is nowhere near Ukraine, so let's stick to issues pertaining within the state of Ohio.

Well, Ukraine is just a current example. Just one of many. Why can't we have nice things like I-73? That's why or at least one of the reasons why.

[Rothman]

Federal transportation funding is not being pilfered to pay for aid to Ukraine...

You say tomato, I say tomahto. $223 million a day blown up and burned up that's either taxpayer money or running the printing presses on overdrive (debt) and further debauching the dollar is pilfering. Just think how many bridges you could build with $223 million dollars, let alone spending that very same amount each and every day on stupidities.

Given the way federal funding actually works, your exclusive choice simply isn't reality.

[Plutonic Panda]

The King Coal and Tolsia Highways in West Virginia are being designed and built as mostly two-lane corridor routes, with provisions for four lanes throughout. There are no provisions for a complete freeway, with the highway incorporating a mixture of interchanges at major junctions and intersections elsewhere. There are no driveways.

The "I-73/74 High Priority Corridor" signs are decades old at this point and some have been knocked down and not replaced. They hold no official designation or bearing. All funding and proposal plans have been to build the highway as a replacement for US 52 and nothing more.

The Ohio folly died when the funding package tied to the Turnpike was nixed. Michigan isn't interested, either. At best, you'd have some isolated stretches of freeway being built where needed - north and south of Columbus. And with the OH 823 bypass around Portsmouth featuring one-lane terminus ramps with absolutely no provisions for extensions or modifications to incorporate an interstate, I would consider it dead.

That's because of money isn't there. We spend it on stupid things like ukraine, but that's about to end. Once there is money again, we'll start building infrastructure again.

Federal transportation funding is not being pilfered to pay for aid to Ukraine...

I understand the need to provide foreign aide to countries around the world and have an influence but it's frustrating to see tens of billions approved on a moments notice but it took decades just to get our most recent major infrastructure investment passed. So it's understandable why people make these connections. It's frustrating to see this whole our infrastructure rots. The Portland-Vancouver bridge or the Hudson River tunnels are a prime example.

[seicer]

The King Coal and Tolsia Highways in West Virginia are being designed and built as mostly two-lane corridor routes, with provisions for four lanes throughout. There are no provisions for a complete freeway, with the highway incorporating a mixture of interchanges at major junctions and intersections elsewhere. There are no driveways.

The "I-73/74 High Priority Corridor" signs are decades old at this point and some have been knocked down and not replaced. They hold no official designation or bearing. All funding and proposal plans have been to build the highway as a replacement for US 52 and nothing more.

The Ohio folly died when the funding package tied to the Turnpike was nixed. Michigan isn't interested, either. At best, you'd have some isolated stretches of freeway being built where needed - north and south of Columbus. And with the OH 823 bypass around Portsmouth featuring one-lane terminus ramps with absolutely no provisions for extensions or modifications to incorporate an interstate, I would consider it dead.

That's because of money isn't there. We spend it on stupid things like ukraine, but that's about to end. Once there is money again, we'll start building infrastructure again.

WVDOH isn't interested in building a full freeway. If they were, they would be building that. They want to open land for development, and allowing at-grade intersections does a much better job of that than a full freeway would.

ODOT doesn't see the point of an Interstate for this corridor. For most of its length, US 23/SR 15 are adequate. Building a brand new alignment south of Columbus to support a freeway would be duplicative, eat up lots of farmland, and not significantly improve mobility over what's there. Upgrading the existing US 23/SR 15 to a corridor to a freeway north of Waldo would be feasible but there isn't sufficient traffic to require it at this time.

Somebody is talking about a parallel route. We're talking about most of the existing route being upgraded and resigned. It will happen. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will happen.

Nobody is talking about a parallel route. Half of this thread needs to be shoved into the fictional forum.

[TempoNick]

Nobody is talking about a parallel route. Half of this thread needs to be shoved into the fictional forum.

See comment previous to mine. Yes, Google got me on that one, it is supposed to say "nobody."

"Building a brand new alignment south of Columbus to support a freeway would be duplicative, eat up lots of farmland, and not significantly improve mobility over what's there."

[TempoNick]

I understand the need to provide foreign aide to countries around the world and have an influence but it's frustrating to see tens of billions approved on a moments notice but it took decades just to get our most recent major infrastructure investment passed. So it's understandable why people make these connections. It's frustrating to see this whole our infrastructure rots. The Portland-Vancouver bridge or the Hudson River tunnels are a prime example.

Bingo. $200 billion for Ukraine? That's enough to complete 10 - I-73s, at least according to the $10 billion to complete estimate I saw, which is probably $20 billion by now. Or, if you prefer, the Brent Spence Bridge. They've been talking about that stupid thing for 30 years.

[seicer]

The Brent Spence Bridge Corridor Project, a significant infrastructure initiative, received $1.6 billion in federal funding in December 2022. This project is a collaborative effort between Kentucky and Ohio, with each state also contributing their own funds. The process of property acquisition is ongoing, as demonstrated by the Ohio Department of Transportation's recent acquisition of Longworth Hall in Cincinnati. Kentucky has revealed plans to construct transparent sound barriers as part of the development of the approach roads for the new bridge.

For further details on funding, visit the project's website https://brentspencebridgecorridor.com/funding/

Despite the high costs and complexity typically associated with projects of this scale, the funding and progress of the Brent Spence Bridge Project have not been adversely affected by international conflicts or wars. Such large-scale infrastructure projects often take many years, if not decades, to be fully realized.

[The Ghostbuster]

The bridge will still be double-decked. I guess the right-of-way impacts would be too great to make it single-decked.

[TempoNick]

The Brent Spence Bridge Corridor Project, a significant infrastructure initiative, received $1.6 billion in federal funding in December 2022. This project is a collaborative effort between Kentucky and Ohio, with each state also contributing their own funds. The process of property acquisition is ongoing, as demonstrated by the Ohio Department of Transportation's recent acquisition of Longworth Hall in Cincinnati. Kentucky has revealed plans to construct transparent sound barriers as part of the development of the approach roads for the new bridge.

For further details on funding, visit the project's website https://brentspencebridgecorridor.com/funding/

Despite the high costs and complexity typically associated with projects of this scale, the funding and progress of the Brent Spence Bridge Project have not been adversely affected by international conflicts or wars. Such large-scale infrastructure projects often take many years, if not decades, to be fully realized.

Yes, yes, yes ... I know all that. I also know how long it took to get that done, especially considering one of the Senate bigwigs comes from that state. Robert Byrd sure knew how to get projects done. But then again, we weren't effectively insolvent back in those days. That's your answer as to why I-73 isn't getting done. But right now we are at the stage the British Empire found itself about 70 years ago. The rest of the world doesn't really like us that much and we can't afford an Empire anymore. These two subjects are related.

[GCrites]

It's a lot harder for Sherrod Brown, J.D. Vance and Joe Manchin to bring home the bacon for Appalachian highway expansion since the public is no longer sold on it as the kind of surefire winner it was considered in the '60s '70s and '80s since the results aren't there. They can't stick their neck out for it even with how powerful Manchin seemed only a year or two ago.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

It's a lot harder for Sherrod Brown, J.D. Vance and Joe Manchin to bring home the bacon for Appalachian highway expansion since the public is no longer sold on it as the kind of surefire winner it was considered in the '60s '70s and '80s since the results aren't there. They can't stick their neck out for it even with how powerful Manchin seemed only a year or two ago.

All those highways have done is make it easier to leave Kentucky, West Virginia, and SE Ohio for more metropolitan locations (D.C., Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh for example)

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

The Brent Spence Bridge Corridor Project, a significant infrastructure initiative, received $1.6 billion in federal funding in December 2022. This project is a collaborative effort between Kentucky and Ohio, with each state also contributing their own funds. The process of property acquisition is ongoing, as demonstrated by the Ohio Department of Transportation's recent acquisition of Longworth Hall in Cincinnati. Kentucky has revealed plans to construct transparent sound barriers as part of the development of the approach roads for the new bridge.

For further details on funding, visit the project's website https://brentspencebridgecorridor.com/funding/

Despite the high costs and complexity typically associated with projects of this scale, the funding and progress of the Brent Spence Bridge Project have not been adversely affected by international conflicts or wars. Such large-scale infrastructure projects often take many years, if not decades, to be fully realized.

We have a thread for this...
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8155.0

[Bitmapped]

Nobody is talking about a parallel route. Half of this thread needs to be shoved into the fictional forum.

See comment previous to mine. Yes, Google got me on that one, it is supposed to say "nobody."

"Building a brand new alignment south of Columbus to support a freeway would be duplicative, eat up lots of farmland, and not significantly improve mobility over what's there."

You can't just upgrade in-place and resign the existing US 23 south of Columbus as an Interstate. ODOT doesn't have full control of right-of-way access for most of the length other than the Chillicothe bypass. There are hundreds of places where adjacent property owners have direct access to US 23. You have to deal with them somehow. Frontage roads would be expensive due to the takings that would be required and a likely need for frequent interchanges to provide local access.

Building a new freeway alignment is how you resolve these sorts of problems. You leave the existing road in place, even if it's a 4-lane divided highway, to serve local traffic and provide access to adjacent properties. A new freeway with full access control is built with larger interchange spacing for through traffic. See the parallel I-70/US 40 alignments and what ODOT did east of Wooster on US 30 about 15 years ago for examples of this dynamic.

[Dirt Roads]

It's a lot harder for Sherrod Brown, J.D. Vance and Joe Manchin to bring home the bacon for Appalachian highway expansion since the public is no longer sold on it as the kind of surefire winner it was considered in the '60s '70s and '80s since the results aren't there. They can't stick their neck out for it even with how powerful Manchin seemed only a year or two ago.

All those highways have done is make it easier to leave Kentucky, West Virginia, and SE Ohio for more metropolitan locations (D.C., Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh for example)

Yup.  When I was growing up, the "Three Rs" in West Virginia were readin', ritin' and "road to Columbus".  Nowadays they say "road to Carolina".

[TempoNick]

Yup.  When I was growing up, the "Three Rs" in West Virginia were readin', ritin' and "road to Columbus".  Nowadays they say "road to Carolina".

Fine by me. As the 7th most populous state, I think we have enough people.

[Buck87]

Here is the plan for a roundabout at the intersection of OH 18 and OH 601, set to begin construction in late 2024:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/files/2023-1-17%20Plan%20Geometrics%20(2).pdf

This is located right next to Summit Motorsports Park and also an R+L Carriers distribution facility.

The reason for the middle circle having a piece cut out of it on the east side is to allow any future NASA test article movements between Mansfield Lahm Airport and Neil Armstrong Test Facility (Plum Brook) in Sandusky to more easily traverse the roundabout. The one at US 20 and OH 601 one mile to the north has the same feature.

For example, this is the type of vehicle that needs to get through there (seen taking the Orion Spacecraft to Sandusky for testing in 2019, this capsule later orbited the moon on Artemis 1 in 2022.)

[seicer]

While it wasn't a notch, the new roundabout at the South Point interchange along US 52 needed revising right after it was completed as oversized trucks could not navigate it. I think they just lowered the profile of the center so trucks could more easily mount it.

[zzcarp]

Here is the plan for a roundabout at the intersection of OH 18 and OH 601, set to begin construction in late 2024:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/files/2023-1-17%20Plan%20Geometrics%20(2).pdf

This is located right next to Summit Motorsports Park and also an R+L Carriers distribution facility.

The reason for the middle circle having a piece cut out of it on the east side is to allow any future NASA test article movements between Mansfield Lahm Airport and Neil Armstrong Test Facility (Plum Brook) in Sandusky to more easily traverse the roundabout. The one at US 20 and OH 601 one mile to the north has the same feature.

For example, this is the type of vehicle that needs to get through there (seen taking the Orion Spacecraft to Sandusky for testing in 2019, this capsule later orbited the moon on Artemis 1 in 2022.)

That intersection has been dangerous for years, so it's good to see the improvements being made. OH 601/Greenwich Milan Townline Road has always had a large traffic volume as a quasi-bypass of Norwalk for US 250 WB/OH 13 NB traffic.

My question is if they're running those oversized loads like that truck above, and they are big enough that they need to take a "notch" out of these roundabouts, how do they make the corner in Milan at OH 113? It seems like a truck that long would have quite a few difficulties maneuvering there.

[Black-Man]

It's a lot harder for Sherrod Brown, J.D. Vance and Joe Manchin to bring home the bacon for Appalachian highway expansion since the public is no longer sold on it as the kind of surefire winner it was considered in the '60s '70s and '80s since the results aren't there. They can't stick their neck out for it even with how powerful Manchin seemed only a year or two ago.

All those highways have done is make it easier to leave Kentucky, West Virginia, and SE Ohio for more metropolitan locations (D.C., Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh for example)

OK... this is nonsense on another scale of absurdity. Drive down the US19 corridor and tell me with a straight face it had no impact Fayette and Raleigh counties in WV.