Speed limits (was NJ Turnpike)

[Brandon]

Oh come on, you've traveled thru all those cities around the country in the first place, and then remembered the exact speeds in each?   

BTW, in my last posts I did specify within city limits, and something that passes just outside of a small city (Macon, etc.) isn't really what I was referring to.  Major metros.

Another BTW, Richmond has 65 starting just outside of the city, and 65 and 70 on the outer loop, but Richmond and Petersburg themselves are effectively no more than 60.

Examples:
I-75, south of 8 Mile in Detroit
I-96, near Grand Blvd in Detroit
I-496, at Cedar in Lansing
I-475, near I-69 in Flint

[Beltway]

Of course.  But even though retired I wouldn't "travel" to all those places just to look at enough speed limit signs and get some idea of prevailing section speeds.  That would take a lot of time.

Only took about 20-30 minutes, and having been to a majority of the cities before, it made it quicker since knowing what stretches are faster, etc.

30 cities in that timespan?  I know what would be involved in accurately verifying just one city, and I don't believe that for a second.

Besides, you said that you "do vividly remember the speed limits in at least 12 of those cities," and yet you got it wrong for I-95 thru Colonial Heights and Petersburg, and that is close to where you live, well, it is about 100 miles and on the southern main route between Virginia Beach and Richmond.

Like has been said, the Northeast corridor states and NYC-Chicago states don't have those kinds of speeds.

Which is 17 states and what, over 40% of the population of the country?

Except Michigan. But outside the Northeast, they are quite common and appropriate.

Michigan is not on the NYC-Chicago corridor.

[sprjus4]

Besides, you said that you "do vividly remember the speed limits in at least 12 of those cities," and yet you got it wrong for I-95 thru Colonial Heights and Petersburg, and that is close to where you live, well, it is about 100 miles and on the southern main route between Virginia Beach and Richmond.

I've only driven I-95 through Petersburg a few different times, for the most part when I've taken US-460 north, I take I-295 north, not I-95, and vice versa.

Some limits stuck, some didn't. Like I said, I did verify in the cities I mentioned (my Petersburg comment that I missed the small 55 mph segment, I did not check), and if you still aren't convinced of the other cities, you can go look yourself.

[Beltway]

Besides, you said that you "do vividly remember the speed limits in at least 12 of those cities," and yet you got it wrong for I-95 thru Colonial Heights and Petersburg, and that is close to where you live, well, it is about 100 miles and on the southern main route between Virginia Beach and Richmond.

I've only driven I-95 through Petersburg a few different times, for the most part when I've taken US-460 north, I take I-295 north, not I-95, and vice versa.

For someone who is interested in highways, if you live about 100 miles away, that would mean seeing I-95 thru the Richmond-Petersburg area from time to time, and it is on a logical routing for other trips to D.C. and beyond.  Getting to highways like VA-288, VA-150, etc. to check them out.

Some limits stuck, some didn't.

I would very rarely declare that I "do vividly remember" things that are widely scattered around the country.  I remember lots of things, but misremembrance can happen.

Like I said, I did verify in the cities I mentioned (my Petersburg comment that I missed the small 55 mph segment, I did not check),

I wouldn't call it a "small segment," about 6 miles including an urban freeway section.  Petersburg I-95 is notable for having a lot of curvature in the downtown.

and if you still aren't convinced of the other cities, you can go look yourself.

I couldn't do it, look up the reference, write the detail line, verify it, and recheck the detail line, on an average of 1 minute per each of 30 occurrences,  Probably 5 minutes minimum, so that is 150 minutes or 2:30.  Plus not making any errors especially with something so close to where I live.  So just admit that you spent at least 3 hours doing it.

[odditude]

So just admit that you spent at least 3 hours doing it.

so first you say he's lying, then (after proof is provided) you change gears to make fun of him for providing the proof?

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

[Beltway]

So just admit that you spent at least 3 hours doing it.

so first you say he's lying, then (after proof is provided) you change gears to make fun of him for providing the proof?

What 'proof' was provided?

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

There is no legislative solution to this problem.

[sprjus4]

For someone who is interested in highways, if you live about 100 miles away, that would mean seeing I-95 thru the Richmond-Petersburg area from time to time, and it is on a logical routing for other trips to D.C. and beyond.  Getting to highways like VA-288, VA-150, etc. to check them out.

It has been a while since I've taken I-95 south of Richmond. When I frequented trips up to the DC area in 2019, I either would take I-64 and I-295, or US-460 and I-295. I believe a couple times I went on I-95, but that's it. Once I reach I-295 on US-460, I'm just ready to get on and go. Ever since, I've only been through there about a dozen times, and it's been I-64 and I-295 each time. I did do a trip to Richmond recently, and drove on I-95 north of the city, but not south.

I would very rarely declare that I "do vividly remember" things that are widely scattered around the country.  I remember lots of things, but misremembrance can happen.

Hence verifying it.

I wouldn't call it a "small segment," about 6 miles including an urban freeway section.  Petersburg I-95 is notable for having a lot of curvature in the downtown.

In the grand scheme of things, it really is a small segment. I'm not saying I neccasarily didn't know it was 55 mph through there, I just remember 60 mph for the vast majority of the segment south of Richmond and was just summarizing that in a quick comment.

I couldn't do it, look up the reference, write the detail line, verify it, and recheck the detail line, on an average of 1 minute per each of 30 occurrences,  Probably 5 minutes minimum, so that is 150 minutes or 2:30.  Plus not making any errors especially with something so close to where I live.  So just admit that you spent at least 3 hours doing it.

Not really, only took about a minute or two per each entry, and about 30 - 40 minutes total.

Spent the first 5 - 10 minutes jotting down cities that came to mind, also scrolling on the map across the country to jog the memory. Then went to each city by searching and displaying it's borders on Google Maps, dropped Street View along a freeway segment, verified the speed limit, and recorded it. About 1-2 minutes each.

If you don't believe it, go to each city yourself on Google Maps, drop, and check each one. If you cannot prove it otherwise, you can't call it "baloney". It's the fact.

What 'proof' was provided?

Google Maps and Street View. Do I need to link every city and speed limit signage?

[sprjus4]

Starting this post at 7:03 pm, going through each city once again and recording links.

Detroit ... 70 mph
Flint ... 70 mph
Lansing ... 70 mph
Grand Rapids ... 70 mph
Raleigh ... 70 mph
Charlotte ... 70 mph
Greensboro ... 65 mph
Orlando ... 70 mph
Jacksonville ... 70 mph
Houston ... 65 mph
Dallas ... 70 mph
Fort Worth ... 70 mph
San Antonio ... 70 mph
Salt Lake City ... 70 mph
Los Angeles ... 65 mph
San Diego ... 65 mph
San Francisco ... 65 mph
Las Vegas ... 65 mph
Phoenix ... 65 mph
Austin ... 75 mph
Augusta ... 65 mph
Savannah ... 70 mph
Pensacola ... 65 mph
Birmingham ... 70 mph
Mobile ... 65 mph
Huntsville ... 70 mph
Baton Rouge ... 65 70 mph
Denver ... 65 mph

Finished at 7:40 pm. Took approximately 37 minutes to go through each city, Street View on a highway segment in each, verify, and link speed limits for 28 cities, about 1.32 minutes each.

[ftballfan]

In Grand Rapids, US-131 is 70 the entire way through town. Even US-31 through Muskegon is 70 despite being a substandard freeway that dates back to the 1950s

[sprjus4]

In Grand Rapids, US-131 is 70 the entire way through town.

Interesting, even in Downtown. Just a simple 50 mph advisory speed around a couple sharp corners.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9685929,-85.6786611,3a,48.9y,179.09h,81.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1TdDDXZkKIeyiITKlPPkaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Even US-31 through Muskegon is 70 despite being a substandard freeway that dates back to the 1950s

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2137792,-86.2052564,3a,36.5y,182.38h,87.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2JLUnESaZcNjGF7UsBRFzw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

From looking at it, seems reasonable.

[vdeane]

So just admit that you spent at least 3 hours doing it.

so first you say he's lying, then (after proof is provided) you change gears to make fun of him for providing the proof?

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

He also moved the goalposts at some point.  First he was talking about metro areas, and then when that was debunked, decided the standard had to be in the cities themselves.

[Beltway]

He also moved the goalposts at some point.  First he was talking about metro areas, and then when that was debunked, decided the standard had to be in the cities themselves.

No, when some very large area cities were injected into the discussion, then I asked about them specifically.  Read for content.

[vdeane]

This was the original phrasing:

How do they define "urban?"  Does that include up to 30 or more miles from the city?

What about urban freeways in the United States posted at 65 - 75 mph?

Many are not and speed limits don't go up until well out of the city -- in any event, the subject was Europe -- how do they define it country by country?

Now, "well out of the city" implies to me something like I-90 around Erie - or, less radically, like how the Thruway remains 55 all the way to the Garden State Parkway.

I just realized that I was going to post a Euro example too, before the discussion ran away into another Beltway vs. sprjus4 debate.  Here's A15 heading out from the Paris metro area, speed limit 68.3508 (generally grouped with 70 on speed limit jurisdiction maps), faster than any point on the New Jersey Turnpike yet with land use as dense (and exits more frequent) as the 55 mph portion of Turnpike in Northern NJ.

[1995hoo]

Florida - Orlando 70 mph; Jacksonville 70 mph; Pensacola 65 mph;

Tampa is also 70 mph (for freeways, non-freeways are caped at 55 mph).

I-75 in Broward County is posted at 70 mph; it's a heavily suburban area comparable to Northern Virginia (and the road has as many lanes as the Beltway, though in a wider footprint). I think that road is a good example of differences between states because here in Virginia, VDOT would refuse to consider anything higher than 55 mph for that road (except for the new I-75 HO/T lanes, of course). As I recall, last time I was on that road (Christmas 2018) it was posted at 70 into Hialeah until Exit 2, where it makes a sharp curve to the east and then ends.

[StogieGuy7]

Regarding Michigan: the 70 mph speed limit is commonly kept on freeways through major cities - even Detroit itself. Where the freeway is fairly straight and wide, it's 70.

Also, the 75 mph speed limit isn't just in "northern Michigan", rural areas in central Michigan have it too.  Good example: I-69 east of Flint.  The subject of increasing the maximum speed limit from 70 to 75 has been raised in some other midwestern states but hasn't yet been successful.  Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin could safely raise their speed limits to such a speed. 

On a separate note, there's a piece of I-94 that runs through a slice of the city of Kenosha, WI (population 101,000) and speed limit is 70.  I'm sure that I could find numerous other such examples throughout the midwest; though Milwaukee and Chicago have limits set just as absurdly low as you'd find in nanny places like NY, NJ, CT or MA. 

[sprjus4]

Also, the 75 mph speed limit isn't just in "northern Michigan", rural areas in central Michigan have it too.  Good example: I-69 east of Flint.  The subject of increasing the maximum speed limit from 70 to 75 has been raised in some other midwestern states but hasn't yet been successful.  Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin could safely raise their speed limits to such a speed.

Going eastwards, West Virginia recently approved 75 mph speed limits. There's no highways it's currently posted on, though in the future may come about.

Florida and North Carolina both attempted to pass bills authorizing 75 mph speed limits, though it never came to fruition. It never passes the NC House, and Florida's governor vetoed it after passing both the House and Senate.

Regarding Indiana, I'd rather see them increase their speed limits on divided highways to 65 mph and non-interstate freeways to 70 mph before a 75 mph interstate speed limit. If anything, they could do something similar to what Florida attempted, a 75 mph interstate speed limit, a 70 mph (65 mph for Indiana's case) divided highway speed limit, and a 65 mph (maybe 60 mph for Indiana's case) two-lane road speed limit.

[StogieGuy7]

Also, the 75 mph speed limit isn't just in "northern Michigan", rural areas in central Michigan have it too.  Good example: I-69 east of Flint.  The subject of increasing the maximum speed limit from 70 to 75 has been raised in some other midwestern states but hasn't yet been successful.  Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin could safely raise their speed limits to such a speed.

Going eastwards, West Virginia recently approved 75 mph speed limits. There's no highways it's currently posted on, though in the future may come about.

Florida and North Carolina both attempted to pass bills authorizing 75 mph speed limits, though it never came to fruition. It never passes the NC House, and Florida's governor vetoed it after passing both the House and Senate.

Regarding Indiana, I'd rather see them increase their speed limits on divided highways to 65 mph and non-interstate freeways to 70 mph before a 75 mph interstate speed limit. If anything, they could do something similar to what Florida attempted, a 75 mph interstate speed limit, a 70 mph (65 mph for Indiana's case) divided highway speed limit, and a 65 mph (maybe 60 mph for Indiana's case) two-lane road speed limit.

Last things first: yes, Indiana could definitely afford to increase the speed limit on divided and two lane roads.  They're artificially low and lend themselves to local yokels setting up speed traps to snare unwary out of staters.  And 75 mph would be perfectly reasonable for many rural interstates in Indiana, the caveat being that they're permanently under construction for dozens of miles so it could be 2047 before there's a segment that qualifies.   

It's a shame that Florida didn't raise the limit to 75. Given the speed of traffic on many freeways there, it wouldn't make any difference anyway - aside from being a more realistic measure of relative speed.   

[sprjus4]

Last things first: yes, Indiana could definitely afford to increase the speed limit on divided and two lane roads.  They're artificially low and lend themselves to local yokels setting up speed traps to snare unwary out of staters.  And 75 mph would be perfectly reasonable for many rural interstates in Indiana, the caveat being that they're permanently under construction for dozens of miles so it could be 2047 before there's a segment that qualifies.   

The newer segment of I-69 between Evansville and Bloomington would be a good place for a "pilot"  program for 75 mph.

Virginia I-85 south of Petersburg was apart of a "pilot"  for 70 mph starting in 2006 before the statewide limit was raised in 2010.

Louisiana I-49 north of Opelousas was raised to 75 mph as well, though no other roads in the state have been since 2010-ish.

Florida and North Carolina could both handle 75 mph speeds, notably on highways like I-10 and I-40, and it's a shame neither passed. I also wouldn't mind 70 mph on divided highways and 65 mph on two-lane roads in Florida. North Carolina needs to at least raise the divided highway limit from 60 mph to 65 mph. As for two-lane roads, debatable given no other state around posts above 55 mph, but 60 mph could be reasonable on many. I'd rather see 65 mph on divided highways before 75 mph on interstates, preferably both.

[stevashe]

In Grand Rapids, US-131 is 70 the entire way through town.

Interesting, even in Downtown. Just a simple 50 mph advisory speed around a couple sharp corners.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9685929,-85.6786611,3a,48.9y,179.09h,81.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1TdDDXZkKIeyiITKlPPkaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Used to be 55 though, as this old streetview shows.
https://goo.gl/maps/uYSAeRWzK39AnkWe6

[sprjus4]

In Grand Rapids, US-131 is 70 the entire way through town.

Interesting, even in Downtown. Just a simple 50 mph advisory speed around a couple sharp corners.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9685929,-85.6786611,3a,48.9y,179.09h,81.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1TdDDXZkKIeyiITKlPPkaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Used to be 55 though, as this old streetview shows.
https://goo.gl/maps/uYSAeRWzK39AnkWe6

Seems like a strange increase, especially in this day and age.