Why does I-76 end at I-295? why not extend it along NJ 42?

Started by Buummu, April 26, 2011, 08:16:18 PM

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Buummu

I think I-76 should be extended to Atlantic City, NJ... but nope it ends at I-295... I wonder why.....?

Post Merge: April 26, 2011, 10:26:35 PM

Even though NJ 42 is a toll road... I-76 in PA is even a toll road for much of its routing, so I do not see why not?


Duke87

Well, I do believe the Atlantic City Expressway isn't quite up to interstate standards.

But, really, it's simply that it wasn't put in place in the original interstate plan, and New Jersey has not seen fit to apply for the designation since. While it does seem like a logical extension, functionally speaking, what would the benefit really be? Something has to justify the cost of all the new signs.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

froggie

NJ 42 is not a toll road.  The NJ 42 segment is freeway, not tollway.

Roadgeek Adam

This is New Jersey. 42 will never be upgraded, nor will any of the ever proposed highways be built. I mean since the 1980s, only a small portion of 185 and the old NJ 92 segment of NJ 133 have been constructed (along with the missing interstate 287 parts). NIMBYs, Environmentalists, Greedy Politicians and Plain Idiots live in this state. It'll never happened. Hell I'm surprised the Hillsborough Bypass is this far in.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

Alps

I-76 ends at I-295 because it's an Interstate, which is why it doesn't even follow NJ 42 to the ACE junction. It could also end at the ocean, but the median parking lot was probably too much to overcome to get it designated, and the ACE is owned by the South Jersey Transportation Authority, more known for ferries and airports than their one toll road. There are a lot of idiosyncrasies. I just don't think it was on anyone's radar to get it extended, but even if it had been, probably was not going to happen.

Buummu

Yeah it does make sense if it's an Interstate... but like some states, their interstates end at the city, not at other interstates.. i.e. I-40 in Wilmington, NC, I-95 in Miami, FL, I-90 in Boston, the list goes on... but it is just unfortunate... I was just wondering because I drove on that road before.. I was surprised. Guess you're right, it's New Jersey.....

SteveG1988

you could have it become another interstate, and have it end at the garden state parkway just outside atlantic city? Or take it to the Plesantville Toll Plaza. Interstate 876 would work, or extend 676 along it. Interstate 195 ends at a non interstate as well (295 and NJ 29 on the western part and NJ 138 on the eastern)
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Alps

Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 30, 2011, 11:36:17 AM
you could have it become another interstate, and have it end at the garden state parkway just outside atlantic city? Or take it to the Plesantville Toll Plaza. Interstate 876 would work, or extend 676 along it. Interstate 195 ends at a non interstate as well (295 and NJ 29 on the western part and NJ 138 on the eastern)
Please try to keep this thread away from Fictional Highways, although you're doing your best. Three-digit Interstates can end anywhere, but two-digit Interstates are generally only approved to end at Interstates or US Highways, or else at the very edge of the country (which is how the I-90 extension in Boston was approved).

SteveG1988

Sorry about that, back to the matter at hand. To be honest leaving it as is does not harm anyone. it is not like it is confusing to get to the expressway from 76/42. It makes sense from a routing standpoint to extend a interstate desgination over the road, but is it really needed for the region? I would rather see the funds that could be used for a change like that go to something that really needs fixing, like the Scudder Falls Bridge replacement, along with the new approaches
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Buummu

yeah i see that.. but like i said.. it could have been extended along 42 to give the city a interstate....

SteveG1988

Thing is the ACE was built in 1964, the part of 76 that exists today i think was built in the late 50s as part of the bridge approach. (check out the historic aerials) they planned it like that in the first place. Looking at 1957 photos, the roadway that became 76 exists even then.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Henry

Quote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2011, 08:40:41 PM
Well, I do believe the Atlantic City Expressway isn't quite up to interstate standards.

But, really, it's simply that it wasn't put in place in the original interstate plan, and New Jersey has not seen fit to apply for the designation since. While it does seem like a logical extension, functionally speaking, what would the benefit really be? Something has to justify the cost of all the new signs.
Especially when you take into consideration the fact that the mileage and exit numbers go the wrong way (westbound instead of eastbound). While extensions of I-76 to Atlantic City and spurs into Vineland (along NJ 55) have been envisioned a lot in the fictional highways sites, past and present, it simply won't happen in the real world.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Brandon

Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2011, 08:40:41 PM
Well, I do believe the Atlantic City Expressway isn't quite up to interstate standards.

But, really, it's simply that it wasn't put in place in the original interstate plan, and New Jersey has not seen fit to apply for the designation since. While it does seem like a logical extension, functionally speaking, what would the benefit really be? Something has to justify the cost of all the new signs.
Especially when you take into consideration the fact that the mileage and exit numbers go the wrong way (westbound instead of eastbound). While extensions of I-76 to Atlantic City and spurs into Vineland (along NJ 55) have been envisioned a lot in the fictional highways sites, past and present, it simply won't happen in the real world.

Wrong way mileage markers never stopped I-90 from being posted along the NYS Thruway, the Northwest Tollway, or the Chicago Skyway.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Michael in Philly

Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2011, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 30, 2011, 11:36:17 AM
you could have it become another interstate, and have it end at the garden state parkway just outside atlantic city? Or take it to the Plesantville Toll Plaza. Interstate 876 would work, or extend 676 along it. Interstate 195 ends at a non interstate as well (295 and NJ 29 on the western part and NJ 138 on the eastern)
Please try to keep this thread away from Fictional Highways, although you're doing your best. Three-digit Interstates can end anywhere, but two-digit Interstates are generally only approved to end at Interstates or US Highways, or else at the very edge of the country (which is how the I-90 extension in Boston was approved).

Atlantic City wouldn't be the very edge of the country?
RIP Dad 1924-2012.

Brandon

Quote from: Michael in Philly on May 09, 2011, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2011, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 30, 2011, 11:36:17 AM
you could have it become another interstate, and have it end at the garden state parkway just outside atlantic city? Or take it to the Plesantville Toll Plaza. Interstate 876 would work, or extend 676 along it. Interstate 195 ends at a non interstate as well (295 and NJ 29 on the western part and NJ 138 on the eastern)
Please try to keep this thread away from Fictional Highways, although you're doing your best. Three-digit Interstates can end anywhere, but two-digit Interstates are generally only approved to end at Interstates or US Highways, or else at the very edge of the country (which is how the I-90 extension in Boston was approved).

Atlantic City wouldn't be the very edge of the country?

Of course not.  Didn't you know about East Atlantic City, NJ?  :pan:
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Henry

Quote from: Brandon on May 08, 2011, 07:50:36 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2011, 08:40:41 PM
Well, I do believe the Atlantic City Expressway isn't quite up to interstate standards.

But, really, it's simply that it wasn't put in place in the original interstate plan, and New Jersey has not seen fit to apply for the designation since. While it does seem like a logical extension, functionally speaking, what would the benefit really be? Something has to justify the cost of all the new signs.
Especially when you take into consideration the fact that the mileage and exit numbers go the wrong way (westbound instead of eastbound). While extensions of I-76 to Atlantic City and spurs into Vineland (along NJ 55) have been envisioned a lot in the fictional highways sites, past and present, it simply won't happen in the real world.

Wrong way mileage markers never stopped I-90 from being posted along the NYS Thruway, the Northwest Tollway, or the Chicago Skyway.
That is true.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Alps

Quote from: Michael in Philly on May 09, 2011, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2011, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 30, 2011, 11:36:17 AM
you could have it become another interstate, and have it end at the garden state parkway just outside atlantic city? Or take it to the Plesantville Toll Plaza. Interstate 876 would work, or extend 676 along it. Interstate 195 ends at a non interstate as well (295 and NJ 29 on the western part and NJ 138 on the eastern)
Please try to keep this thread away from Fictional Highways, although you're doing your best. Three-digit Interstates can end anywhere, but two-digit Interstates are generally only approved to end at Interstates or US Highways, or else at the very edge of the country (which is how the I-90 extension in Boston was approved).

Atlantic City wouldn't be the very edge of the country?

Yes, if I-76 could make it there. I'm not sure the Garden State Parkway is as neat a division for the FHWA. But first and foremost, I don't think the ACE was ever applied for Interstate status, which may in fact be the principal reason for exclusion.

Jerseyman4

Interstates designated on existing roads/newly built/etc nowadays are marketing tools to increase commerce and of course, allow clueless tourists to follow one number to a destination (and in other cases like Danville VA with I-785, put them on the map). I-76 being routed along the 42 Freeway and the A.C.E. could only help bring in more people to the southern New Jersey "shore points". Granted, the improvements to upgrade 42 and the ACE would not be cheap but it's worth the investment. Every summer, I have to hear these silly TV and Radio ad's about getting out of stater's to the New Jersey shore but you don't really hear that many any other marketing ideas. Instead, imposing or increasing the parking meters and upping the cost of beach badge passes are all they.....the state/municipal government knows.

hbelkins

Quote from: Steve on May 09, 2011, 06:57:19 PM
Yes, if I-76 could make it there. I'm not sure the Garden State Parkway is as neat a division for the FHWA. But first and foremost, I don't think the ACE was ever applied for Interstate status, which may in fact be the principal reason for exclusion.

Well, it was good enough for I-195...


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SteveG1988

I wonder how many people think its all the same road, 76/42/ACE. Its pretty seamless going from one to the other.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

mgk920

Quote from: Steve on April 30, 2011, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 30, 2011, 11:36:17 AM
you could have it become another interstate, and have it end at the garden state parkway just outside atlantic city? Or take it to the Plesantville Toll Plaza. Interstate 876 would work, or extend 676 along it. Interstate 195 ends at a non interstate as well (295 and NJ 29 on the western part and NJ 138 on the eastern)
Please try to keep this thread away from Fictional Highways, although you're doing your best. Three-digit Interstates can end anywhere, but two-digit Interstates are generally only approved to end at Interstates or US Highways, or else at the very edge of the country (which is how the I-90 extension in Boston was approved).

There are precedents.

- I-35 ends at a surface street intersection with a state highway in Duluth, MN.
- I-79 feeds into a city street parkway in Erie, PA ('edge of country'?).

Assuming that the road is up to standards and the State of New Jersey wants it, I have no problem with marking all of the ACE, right up to where it feeds into Atlantic City's streets, as 'I-76'.

:nod:

Mike

SteveG1988

I think signing it as 76 up to the start of the ACE would work, for guiding motorists. have 76 stop at the toll road instead of stoping at NJ route 42 and then the toll road starts.

Also last time i drove the road, it felt very interstate like in terms of lanes and exits, only issue i have is the signage, it would have to be torn down and replaced with actual standards compliant signs since it is all over the place in terms of quality.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

jeffandnicole

Living 3 miles away from where 295, 76 & 42 meet, I think the majority of the people that feel this is a major issue are those in the Roadgeek community.  There has certainly been no effort whatsoever in the state towards looking into renumbering 42 & the ACE as I-76; no more so than renumbering the NJ Turnpike from interchanges 1 - 6 to be 95 or x95. 

To clarify - Other than for about a 1 mile stretch near AC, the AC Expressway is fully up to interstate standards, and that's only due to the intercept parking lot in the median.  Route 42 is up to interstate standards.  The only minor issues would be longer accel/decel lanes and larger signage at a few of the exits. 

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 01, 2011, 02:11:47 PM
Living 3 miles away from where 295, 76 & 42 meet, I think the majority of the people that feel this is a major issue are those in the Roadgeek community. 

Welcome to roadgeekdom where 98.9% of the topics debated on here, the rest of the population could care less about.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

jeffandnicole

:-)  Yeah...I know!  Although in some areas of the country, an interstate vs. state or county route designation means a big thing!  It is really pushed for and desired by local businesses (and residents) to promote commerce and growth.

One instance in this general area was way back when the PA Turnpike NE Extension was PA Route 9, and they promoted one of the reasons to change it to I-476 was to encourage truck traffic to use the pike.



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