Phoenix Area Highways

[Roadwarriors79]

Recent drone footage of the Pecos section of future Loop 202:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqe7D02XgYA

[404inthe404]

Flying in the front of a Delta A321 on a ATL-PHX leg, we went right over the 202/I-10 construction and I managed to get a pretty good shot of the progress.

[SSR_317]

Flying in the front of a Delta A321 on a ATL-PHX leg, we went right over the 202/I-10 construction and I managed to get a pretty good shot of the progress.

Great pic...thanks!

[jakeroot]

It's like LA in the 60s and 70s.

"This looks like a good alignment...excuse me...pardon me...coming through...whoops, sorry   ...   perfect!"

[AsphaltPlanet]

^ That is a great pic!

I'm looking forward to seeing the completion of the South Mountain Freeway.  Arizona does such a good job with it's freeways.

[Sonic99]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

[Max Rockatansky]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I'm sure the eminent domain price wasn't awful for a share of the property. 

[howlincoyote2k1]

^ That is a great pic!

I'm looking forward to seeing the completion of the South Mountain Freeway.  Arizona does such a good job with it's freeways.

While the actual construction quality is good - this road will not completely unclog I-10 W of downtown Phoenix.  The 10 connection is simply too far east.  The 59th Ave corridor, which the western leg of this 202 route hugs, was/is primarily an industrial corridor.  With a considerable amount of underutilized and or vacant properties.   While this route took an easier routing, it really should have been placed further west.

While true--I would have preferred this to directly connect to L101--we should be getting started with SR 30 pretty soon which will hopefully help accomplish that goal. Plus, I can kind of understand Tolleson being pretty upset about potentially losing ~10% percent of its land area to a freeway.

At this point, I'm just glad the thing is being built.

[jakeroot]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I'm sure the eminent domain price wasn't awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

[Max Rockatansky]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I'm sure the eminent domain price wasn't awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5'minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps. 

[jakeroot]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I'm sure the eminent domain price wasn't awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5'minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps.

I'm thinking it was apartments as well. But since apartments usually require extended leases, ADOT would have had to contend with people who were under some legal right of residence. Cutting leases short is not impossible, but there's generally a fine. I hope ADOT let residents live out their leases. Obviously its different than buying single-family property, since the state is purchasing out the infrastructure from beneath you that you don't own.

I don't doubt that it will be nice having the 202 and 10 right outside your door, but if they keep building houses way out in what was once the "boondocks", it's going to be quite a busy area twenty years from now. I'd be looking to buy downtown, myself!

[Max Rockatansky]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I'm sure the eminent domain price wasn't awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5'minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps.

I'm thinking it was apartments as well. But since apartments usually require extended leases, ADOT would have had to contend with people who were under some legal right of residence. Cutting leases short is not impossible, but there's generally a fine. I hope ADOT let residents live out their leases. Obviously its different than buying single-family property, since the state is purchasing out the infrastructure from beneath you that you don't own.

I don't doubt that it will be nice having the 202 and 10 right outside your door, but if they keep building houses way out in what was once the "boondocks", it's going to be quite a busy area twenty years from now. I'd be looking to buy downtown, myself!

I used to rent when I owned a home and I want to say that you can write in some sort of clause regarding giving a certain number of days notice for eminent domain...(granted I haven't looked at housing laws in years)  The West Valley is hardly a boon dock anymore, it used to be desert as far as the eye could see but the sprawl is pretty much all the way west to AZ 85 at this point.  I was the same distance from AZ 51 as those units are from I-10/AZ 202, with the right sound barriers the noise is almost non-existent. 

Regarding downtown, it's never been the greatest place.  Most of the residential structures were pretty run down and walkability sucked even when the light rail  came in.  There was some new growth around Central when I left back in 2013, maybe things have improved since?

[jakeroot]

I used to rent when I owned a home and I want to say that you can write in some sort of clause regarding giving a certain number of days notice for eminent domain...(granted I haven't looked at housing laws in years)  The West Valley is hardly a boon dock anymore, it used to be desert as far as the eye could see but the sprawl is pretty much all the way west to AZ 85 at this point.  I was the same distance from AZ 51 as those units are from I-10/AZ 202, with the right sound barriers the noise is almost non-existent. 

Regarding downtown, it's never been the greatest place.  Most of the residential structures were pretty run down and walkability sucked even when the light rail  came in.  There was some new growth around Central when I left back in 2013, maybe things have improved since?

I'm sure the negotiation process between the state and the apartment complex took several months or longer, and even longer between there and final eviction. They wouldn't just show up and ask everyone to leave within two weeks. Or at least, I wouldn't think. That's really brutal!

I'm not suggesting that the West Valley is boondocks now, but rather that the boondocks have moved further west as a result of the 101 and 303. The 202 is probably going to spur additional southern growth, and nothing's stopping more homes from being built near the 10/303 interchange and beyond, never mind the blank space in between.

When I was in Downtown Phoenix last December, it was actually pretty nice. Lots of new development and certainly plenty of places to eat, drink, etc. Is it an embarrassing downtown for as large of a city as it is? I'd say so, though it's still second to LA in most out-of-proportion downtown size relative to the metro area. Regardless, it's probably the most walkable area of the Phoenix metro, and I'm not really into car-dependency (as much as I like driving mine), so it'd be where I'd prefer to locate. Even if I worked outside downtown, nothing beats a reverse commute.

[Max Rockatansky]

I used to rent when I owned a home and I want to say that you can write in some sort of clause regarding giving a certain number of days notice for eminent domain...(granted I haven't looked at housing laws in years)  The West Valley is hardly a boon dock anymore, it used to be desert as far as the eye could see but the sprawl is pretty much all the way west to AZ 85 at this point.  I was the same distance from AZ 51 as those units are from I-10/AZ 202, with the right sound barriers the noise is almost non-existent. 

Regarding downtown, it's never been the greatest place.  Most of the residential structures were pretty run down and walkability sucked even when the light rail  came in.  There was some new growth around Central when I left back in 2013, maybe things have improved since?

I'm sure the negotiation process between the state and the apartment complex took several months or longer, and even longer between there and final eviction. They wouldn't just show up and ask everyone to leave within two weeks. Or at least, I wouldn't think. That's really brutal!

I'm not suggesting that the West Valley is boondocks now, but rather that the boondocks have moved further west as a result of the 101 and 303. The 202 is probably going to spur additional southern growth, and nothing's stopping more homes from being built near the 10/303 interchange and beyond, never mind the blank space in between.

When I was in Downtown Phoenix last December, it was actually pretty nice. Lots of new development and certainly plenty of places to eat, drink, etc. Is it an embarrassing downtown for as large of a city as it is? I'd say so, though it's still second to LA in most out-of-proportion downtown size relative to the metro area. Regardless, it's probably the most walkable area of the Phoenix metro, and I'm not really into car-dependency (as much as I like driving mine), so it'd be where I'd prefer to locate. Even if I worked outside downtown, nothing beats a reverse commute.

Given we're talking Arizona it would surprise me if the notice was short as possible.  Usually most laws are pretty aggressive in favor of business and government.

There is a ton of room for growth near the Gila River.  Right as I was leaving there was a ton of new developments popping up around Baseline Road.  It wouldn't surprise me if there is eventual infill all the way to the Gila Reservation much like the Salt River Reservation.

Phoenix is an interesting case study of how modern cities tended to develop in the heyday of freeways.  The sprawl in Phoenix is absolutely massive and if memory serves correctly the City is approaching 600 square miles.  The central core of Phoenix really got left in the dust by urban sprawl and really never caught up.  I actually used to enjoy running down there from Sunny Slope given the light traffic on the surface streets in the morning. 

[jakeroot]

There is a ton of room for growth near the Gila River.  Right as I was leaving there was a ton of new developments popping up around Baseline Road.  It wouldn't surprise me if there is eventual infill all the way to the Gila Reservation much like the Salt River Reservation.

Phoenix is an interesting case study of how modern cities tended to develop in the heyday of freeways.  The sprawl in Phoenix is absolutely massive and if memory serves correctly the City is approaching 600 square miles.  The central core of Phoenix really got left in the dust by urban sprawl and really never caught up.  I actually used to enjoy running down there from Sunny Slope given the light traffic on the surface streets in the morning.

There's definitely room to grow, but is there going to be room on the freeway? I'm worried that all these new freeways adding into the 10 is going to make it even busier than it already is. Growth is inevitable, but I don't feel like filling in the rural farm properties is neither the best nor only option.

Totally agree on your second point. Phoenix was one of only a few US cities that grew almost entirely after freeways became a thing, so naturally, its development style became conducive to freeway use. Which I totally understand, but I worry a little bit about long-term sustainability. Realistically, there's no reason Phoenix couldn't be a city 500 years from now (many European and Asian cities are much older), but by then, it's borders will have expanded to Los Angeles at this rate!

[kdk]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I'm sure the eminent domain price wasn't awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5'minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps.

I'm thinking it was apartments as well. But since apartments usually require extended leases, ADOT would have had to contend with people who were under some legal right of residence. Cutting leases short is not impossible, but there's generally a fine. I hope ADOT let residents live out their leases. Obviously its different than buying single-family property, since the state is purchasing out the infrastructure from beneath you that you don't own.

I don't doubt that it will be nice having the 202 and 10 right outside your door, but if they keep building houses way out in what was once the "boondocks", it's going to be quite a busy area twenty years from now. I'd be looking to buy downtown, myself!

This freeway alignment was set for the past decade so it was no surprise they would have eventually been taking those units out.  Usually apartment leases are no longer than a year anyway so this was all planned for well in advance so it's not like someone's lease had to be ended early, worst thing is someone may have been renewing every year and was finally told that "after 2018 you can't renew this unit".

Regarding I-10 becoming a mess with all these freeway interchanges in a short span, I agree.  I think it's become the most dangerous and congested road in the state now.  I avoid it at all times on weekdays if possible, being that the backups that used to start at 3pm a few years ago are now almost an all-day thing.  Weekends aren't as bad but are starting to become problematic as well.  I suspect the next push will be for the reliever freeway that will parallel I-10 south of there will move up in priority.

[Roadwarriors79]

I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Those remaining apartments are currently empty. I found info regarding the properties at this link:

https://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/right-of-way-properties/l-c-018b_w1q.pdf?sfvrsn=2

As far as properties that were demolished to build the new freeway, it seems that most of the public's attention was on what was torn down along the Pecos Rd corridor in Ahwatukee. In comparison, I didn't hear too much about properties along 59th Ave, or along I-10 between 67th Ave and 51st Ave.

As far as the Loop 202 construction, ADOT says they are 2/3 of the way through with the entire project. From various pics/videos I've seen, it looks like some of the Pecos segment and some of the Salt River segment are the closest to completion.

[Roadwarriors79]

Some recent drone footage of the Loop 202 construction, from Broadway Rd to I-10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU5MSOd5Z6I

[rte66man]

I found it unusual that one of the shots showed a completed sign gantry even though no pavement had been put down yet.  Here in OK that is usually one of the last items to be completed.

[Sonic99]

I found it unusual that one of the shots showed a completed sign gantry even though no pavement had been put down yet.  Here in OK that is usually one of the last items to be completed.

I believe that's one of the VMS signs. I've also been a little curious as to why they've installed and seemingly turned on the VMS signs before the pavement underneath has been laid (seems like the chances of being damaged by construction equipment would be higher considering they will be paving, striping, etc. underneath the signs).

[Roadwarriors79]

By this time next week, traffic will be able to use a small stretch of the future South Mountain Freeway:

https://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2019/02/04/first-pecos-road-traffic-moving-onto-south-mountain-freeway-lanes

[Sonic99]

I was in Phoenix for the day yesterday and got to finally see the 202/10 interchange myself for the first time. My first impression is "holy crap, that thing is HUGE!!" when seeing those ramps from the bottom. It's changed a ton since the last time i passed through there which may have been about 2 years ago.

[Pink Jazz]

The City of Glendale is renaming its section of Bethany Home Road near State Farm Stadium to Cardinals Way.  There is a photo of the new sign posted, and it is not in Clearview.  Glendale's use of Clearview was apparently short-lived, possibly even experimental.

[Roadwarriors79]

So here is video of the first section of "freeway" open to the public. (Pecos Segment)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bKgo1pAa8A

[Roadwarriors79]

Most recent video footage of the South Mountain Freeway below (thanks to First Take Aerial).

I-10 Papago Segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0wp4BDSt1E


Salt River Segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXUB4btif_8


Center Segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOLnSPdgZeQ


Pecos Segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPTXzA-Zz5M