NYC Roads

[roadman65]

See now in addition to federal law mandating the reinstatement of EB Verrazzano Bridge tolling the News has it now we have misspelled Giovanni de Verrazzano's name for decades and tax dollars are now being put into correcting the mistake.

[vdeane]

Does it mandate bi-directional tolling, or does it simply repeal the law mandating WB-only tolling?  The article I read suggests the latter.

[storm2k]

Looks like eastbound coming off the old Goethal's Bridge on Staten Island.

That was my first thought, but I couldn't see the railroad overpass that precedes the toll plaza in the shot. I don't know of any PA toll plazas that looked like that, tho.

[TheGrassGuy]

Question about I-278 exit numbers: How come the numbering skips from 35 to 39 after the interchange with I-495? If you check the exits table on Wikipedia, it shows that the exits had been normal, but they just got changed somewhere along the line. WHY?!?!?!

[vdeane]

Question about I-278 exit numbers: How come the numbering skips from 35 to 39 after the interchange with I-495? If you check the exits table on Wikipedia, it shows that the exits had been normal, but they just got changed somewhere along the line. WHY?!?!?!

The plan was to eliminate a lot of the A/B suffixed exits, but at some point the renumbering plan was aborted and I-278 was left only half changed.

[SignBridge]

Sometimes I think California had it right all those years that they did not number exits on their Freeways.

From reading all the posts on these boards about exit numbering controversies, you could get the idea that numbering causes as many or more problems than it solves. And one could argue that it adds to the information overload that a driver must quickly process at highway speeds.

I often ignore exit numbers myself as I'm more interested in the other more meaningful legend on the signs. And in some cases exit numbers are almost useless as in the dividing point of two major highways, where the route number, direction and destination are the important info that I'm looking for.

[Alps]

Sometimes I think California had it right all those years that they did not number exits on their Freeways.

From reading all the posts on these boards about exit numbering controversies, you could get the idea that numbering causes as many or more problems than it solves. And one could argue that it adds to the information overload that a driver must quickly process at highway speeds.

I often ignore exit numbers myself as I'm more interested in the other more meaningful legend on the signs. And in some cases exit numbers are almost useless as in the dividing point of two major highways, where the route number, direction and destination are the important info that I'm looking for.

Dude, California has a boatload of exits. The numbers make it so incredibly much easier to figure out where I need to go and when I need to get over.

[thenetwork]

Sometimes I think California had it right all those years that they did not number exits on their Freeways.

From reading all the posts on these boards about exit numbering controversies, you could get the idea that numbering causes as many or more problems than it solves. And one could argue that it adds to the information overload that a driver must quickly process at highway speeds.

I often ignore exit numbers myself as I'm more interested in the other more meaningful legend on the signs. And in some cases exit numbers are almost useless as in the dividing point of two major highways, where the route number, direction and destination are the important info that I'm looking for.

Dude, California has a boatload of exits. The numbers make it so incredibly much easier to figure out where I need to go and when I need to get over.

Exit Numbers are extremely helpful -- especially when mileage based.  And especially in states where mileage signs are rare or non-existant. 

[SignBridge]

Mileage based exits are a two-sided issue. For those of us who understand the concept, they are useful as mileposts. But for the average idiot driver who doesn't know the theory, he passes exit 25 and then the next exit is say 28, and he's shakin' his head wondering what just happened. LOL Plus I personally find it illogical for anything numbered in a series not to be sequential which is more intuitive. And sign systems being intuitive leads to better safety.

[vdeane]

Think of them less as a numbered series and more as an expression of geographic coordinates.

[Alps]

Mileage based exits are a two-sided issue. For those of us who understand the concept, they are useful as mileposts. But for the average idiot driver who doesn't know the theory, he passes exit 25 and then the next exit is say 28, and he's shakin' his head wondering what just happened. LOL Plus I personally find it illogical for anything numbered in a series not to be sequential which is more intuitive. And sign systems being intuitive leads to better safety.

Unless you were looking for exit 26 or 27, you're ok.

[TheGrassGuy]

So I read in the news that the GW bridge has transitioned to cashless tolling, similar to the Massachusetts Turnpike, starting from 3 am today. Is this true?

[74/171FAN]

So I read in the news that the GW bridge has transitioned to cashless tolling, similar to the Massachusetts Turnpike, starting from 3 am today. Is this true?

This article shows it as only for the Palisades Pkwy access to the GW Bridge at the moment.

[bluecountry]

Any reason why they never built until now a direct connection between the RFK bridge and the HDR NB?

[SignBridge]

That's a very common problem in the NYC area with all the public works built by "Robert Moses and Co." There are many such locations where direct connections don't exist but should. And you have to exit one highway, do a little street running, then enter the other highway.

A good example is I-678 (Van Wyck Expwy) and I-495 (L.I. Expwy). No direct ramps for northbound to eastbound or westbound to either north or southbound.

[Hwy 61 Revisited]

That's a very common problem in the NYC area with all the public works built by "Robert Moses and Co." There are many such locations where such direct connections don't exist but should. And you have to exit one highway, do a little street running, then enter the other highway.

A good example is I-678 (Van Wyck Expwy) and I-495 (L.I. Expwy). No direct ramps for northbound to eastbound or westbound to either north or southbound.

Was that due to NIMBYism?

[vdeane]

It was because those movements were supposed to be handled by I-295, but I-295 was never completed.

[Alps]

Any reason why they never built until now a direct connection between the Triboro bridge and the HDR NB?

When the Triboro opened in 1936, Harlem River Drive was still just the Driveway and ended not too far to the north. Therefore any traffic heading north would just enter the street grid. When they completed HRD, I guess they didn't look at this interchange and just extended north.

[Duke87]

It was because those movements were supposed to be handled by I-295, but I-295 was never completed.

*I-78, but yes once that was cancelled it was renumbered 295.

That said, this explains the lack of NB-EB and WB-SB ramps, but it doesn't explain the lack of SB-EB and WB-NB ramps.

[bluecountry]

It was because those movements were supposed to be handled by I-295, but I-295 was never completed.

*I-78, but yes once that was cancelled it was renumbered 295.

That said, this explains the lack of NB-EB and WB-SB ramps, but it doesn't explain the lack of SB-EB and WB-NB ramps.

So I-78 was supposed to handle connections between I-678 and I-495?

[vdeane]

It was because those movements were supposed to be handled by I-295, but I-295 was never completed.

*I-78, but yes once that was cancelled it was renumbered 295.

That said, this explains the lack of NB-EB and WB-SB ramps, but it doesn't explain the lack of SB-EB and WB-NB ramps.

So I-78 was supposed to handle connections between I-678 and I-495?

Had everything been fully built, people wouldn't have been taking I-678 for movements to Eastern Long Island - they'd be taking a never-built extension of the Clearview instead.  Robert Moses designed the system in such a way that it doesn't work as well as it should with some parts having never been completed.  This is basically why FHWA frowns on partial interchanges today.

[Hwy 61 Revisited]

It was because those movements were supposed to be handled by I-295, but I-295 was never completed.

*I-78, but yes once that was cancelled it was renumbered 295.

That said, this explains the lack of NB-EB and WB-SB ramps, but it doesn't explain the lack of SB-EB and WB-NB ramps.

So I-78 was supposed to handle connections between I-678 and I-495?

Had everything been fully built, people wouldn't have been taking I-678 for movements to Eastern Long Island - they'd be taking a never-built extension of the Clearview instead.  Robert Moses designed the system in such a way that it doesn't work as well as it should with some parts having never been completed.  This is basically why FHWA frowns on partial interchanges today.

This can be useful in some situations, such as with US 209 and PA 33 along I-80 near Stroudsburg, but US 209 is still due to get a full interchange upgrade at the end of the Stroudsburg reconstruction.

[bluecountry]

It was because those movements were supposed to be handled by I-295, but I-295 was never completed.

*I-78, but yes once that was cancelled it was renumbered 295.

That said, this explains the lack of NB-EB and WB-SB ramps, but it doesn't explain the lack of SB-EB and WB-NB ramps.

So I-78 was supposed to handle connections between I-678 and I-495?

Had everything been fully built, people wouldn't have been taking I-678 for movements to Eastern Long Island - they'd be taking a never-built extension of the Clearview instead.  Robert Moses designed the system in such a way that it doesn't work as well as it should with some parts having never been completed.  This is basically why FHWA frowns on partial interchanges today.

Oh, I hate partial interchanges.

[SignBridge]

Vdeane, if your theory is correct how do you account for the full interchange having been built at the Clearview Expwy. (I-78/295) and the LIE (I-495) during that same construction era?  (Early 1960's) If your theory is right, that should also have been only a partial interchange.

[vdeane]

Vdeane, if your theory is correct how do you account for the full interchange having been built at the Clearview Expwy. (I-78/295) and the LIE (I-495) during that same construction era?  (Early 1960's) If your theory is right, that should also have been only a partial interchange.

I didn't come up with the idea - it's just something I remember reading elsewhere (where, alas, I don't remember).  Could be that building a full interchange was easier there for whatever reason.