I miss MTR :(

[Brandon]

I don't want the current MTR.  I want the old MTR. 

Dude, let it go, the old mtr is not coming back.  Ever.  Usenet is as dead as MySpace.  It's so dead you can stick a fork in it and have the fork get rejected as the fork has more life.  This is the next best thing to the old mtr without the spam or the Calrog, or even any viatology shittola.  I've made my voice heard on excessive post merges, but this is far better than the old mtr in certain respects.  I'm glad most of the political garbage gets shit-canned before it has a chance to stink up the rest of the forum like a week-old can of tuna sitting forgotten under the couch next to several old, dirty socks.

The mods here have been more than fair, in my ever-so-humble opinion, to everyone here, even that blawp "stoppit, you're insulting the wonderful world of California" fellow.  Wait a tick, he got hit with the ban stick for being an asshole.  Even then, they were more than fair with him, even when he posted photographs that might have belonged in Maxim.  Hell, if they were truly sadistic and believed themselves to be the second incarnation of Mount Olympus, they've have banned several of us quite some time ago, even you, bugo.  The simple fact that they tolerate you, me, etc, while having a slew of threads pertaining to roads, even with off-topic discussion and and off-topic arena, is evidence enough that this is closer to the old mtr than mtr is currently.

Most the folks from the so-called old mtr are here, not at mtr.  That, and we have fresh meat..er..newer folks who have joined us who otherwise would never have gotten usenet, nor have touched its stinking carcass with a ten-foot pole.  It's just not "in", you know.  I'm quite happy with AARoads as it is, and it is, IMHO, the real successor to the old mtr.  At least without the "Make Money Fast", "Use This To Increase Your Size", and "Hot Russian Girls" spam threads.

[ctsignguy]

I don't want the current MTR.  I want the old MTR. 

Dude, let it go, the old mtr is not coming back.  Ever.  Usenet is as dead as MySpace.  It's so dead you can stick a fork in it and have the fork get rejected as the fork has more life.  This is the next best thing to the old mtr without the spam or the Calrog, or even any viatology shittola.  I've made my voice heard on excessive post merges, but this is far better than the old mtr in certain respects.  I'm glad most of the political garbage gets shit-canned before it has a chance to stink up the rest of the forum like a week-old can of tuna sitting forgotten under the couch next to several old, dirty socks.

The mods here have been more than fair, in my ever-so-humble opinion, to everyone here, even that blawp "stoppit, you're insulting the wonderful world of California" fellow.  Wait a tick, he got hit with the ban stick for being an asshole.  Even then, they were more than fair with him, even when he posted photographs that might have belonged in Maxim.  Hell, if they were truly sadistic and believed themselves to be the second incarnation of Mount Olympus, they've have banned several of us quite some time ago, even you, bugo.  The simple fact that they tolerate you, me, etc, while having a slew of threads pertaining to roads, even with off-topic discussion and and off-topic arena, is evidence enough that this is closer to the old mtr than mtr is currently.

Most the folks from the so-called old mtr are here, not at mtr.  That, and we have fresh meat..er..newer folks who have joined us who otherwise would never have gotten usenet, nor have touched its stinking carcass with a ten-foot pole.  It's just not "in", you know.  I'm quite happy with AARoads as it is, and it is, IMHO, the real successor to the old mtr.  At least without the "Make Money Fast", "Use This To Increase Your Size", and "Hot Russian Girls" spam threads.

You can find hot Russian girls here?  O_o!!

Actually, all kidding aside, i have seen the MTR as it was degenerating into an abuse-fest....and i like it here much better.  (and as has been noted, no viatology spam, nor Calrog to bug us.....

[J N Winkler]

Indeed. I had no access to a Usenet feed (my ISP didn't offer one, to my knowledge).

I never looked to an ISP to supply a feed when I read MTR through an NNTP server, as I did for about a year before I finally gave up on the newsgroup because that was the only way to block Carl Rogers.  People used to speak about pay news providers but the one I used (based in Ukraine) was free.

In the end I gave up on MTR because I felt I had reached a choice between quitting the newsgroup altogether or adding more names to the killfile, starting with Larry Sheldon.

I have always felt that lack of ISP news access was just an alibi people cited to explain MTR's decline in order to avoid confronting the real reason, which was that no matter how high the proportion of regulars who killfiled the known bad actors and refrained from responding to flamebait, the trolls still shaped the discussion by defining the environment in which it occurred (classic application of the broken-window theory).

[hbelkins]

Actually, Larry Sheldon is one of the few on-topic posters left on m.t.r.

I still read m.t.r and post there occasionally, and I have noticed a distinct lack of traffic, but I don't know how much of that is because of the decline of m.t.r specifically and Usenet in general, and how much of it is because I have a whole bunch of people killfiled. I dumped John Lansford a long time ago because despite his credentials and his participation in the design of I-26 in North Carolina, I couldn't take his attitude (or his politics, but that's another story). I have a bunch of other people there plonked because of their various attitudes and some of their opinions. And of course I had every iteration of Randy Hersh killfiled (to me, he, not Carl Rogers, epitomized the worst of m.t.r; Calrog's just a harmless tool but Randy was a raving lunatic and I say that despite knowing Mr. Winkler had a good relationship with him; I think Jonathan was about the only one who did). Sometimes I think about going in and opening up the filters and see what pours out, but if GPSMan is still spewing his nonsense, I might have to dam the creek up once again.

Indeed. I had no access to a Usenet feed (my ISP didn't offer one, to my knowledge).

I never looked to an ISP to supply a feed when I read MTR through an NNTP server, as I did for about a year before I finally gave up on the newsgroup because that was the only way to block Carl Rogers.  People used to speak about pay news providers but the one I used (based in Ukraine) was free.

Is Eternal September, or whatever it was called or it became, still active? I know that service had another name but can't remember if it was Eternal September beforehand or if that's what it changed its name to. Motzarella, I think.

I still use a paid news server (newsguy) because I download files from Usenet (mostly MP3s but occasionally software).

Usenet activity as a whole has really diminished. I haven't looked at rec.autos.sport.nascar, my other favorite newsgroup besides m.t.r, in a long time, but I have a feeling that it's nowhere near as active as it used to be either. I blame the crackdown on pornography for ISPs abandoning Usenet entirely instead of filtering out just the offending groups. I know AT&T dropped Usenet access a few years ago, not long before I moved and had to give up my DSL service.

[dlainhart]

I leapt out the flaming building years before the study of viatology was founded. I hated the mailing-list format even more than I do the webforum, so my contact and discussion was limited to Facebook for years. I'm not sure how I even remained connected.

Even now I still stick to Facebook, as this site is all-but-unusable on Android. Pounding out this message I'd driving me mad. (If there's a mobile version, PLEASE point me to it.) Eternal September began twenty years ago now, and to be fair, that's how I discovered I wasn't the only one with this peculiar interest...

MTR always was the best format for discussion, and frankly, if a Facebook group newsgroup fusion format came up, that would be fantastic. For now, though, I'll remain primarily active on Facebook.

[NE2]

Even now I still stick to Facebook, as this site is all-but-unusable on Android. Pounding out this message I'd driving me mad. (If there's a mobile version, PLEASE point me to it.)

News: Mobile users, the Forum is now available on Tapatalk.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10609

[hbelkins]

I took a look at my killfile. I don't recognize a lot of the names or email addresses in it, but here are a few that may ring a few bells:

George Conklin
"jgar the jorrible <joel-garry@home.com>"
""Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers" <threeburd@yahoo.com>"
John Lansford
William Colin Smith
""Bob C," <bobc867@hotmail.com>"
John A. Weeks III
"hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com"
Garrett Wollman
gpsman
Kurt M. Weber
"Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>"
Kenny McCormack
xeton2001@yahoo.com (a/k/a SADDAM or Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend)

I think most of them ended up in my killfile because of their opinions about cell phone usage while driving (they want to ban it entirely, not just limit it to handsfree devices).

If anyone reads m.t.r anymore, are any of these people still active?

I also have a bunch of subjects killfiled, such as "Bushamerica," "C'mon America, ticket left lane hogs", "Why do people object to highway cameras?" and several others because I remember them getting waaaay out of hand.

I un-plonked all of Randy's aliases so they can go join him wherever he is spending eternity.

[dlainhart]

News: Mobile users, the Forum is now available on Tapatalk.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10609

I JUST got the box popup telling me. Finally.

SCH-I535

[NE2]

I think most of them ended up in my killfile because of their opinions about cell phone usage while driving (they want to ban it entirely, not just limit it to handsfree devices).

You'd best plonk me too.

[bugo]

I think most of them ended up in my killfile because of their opinions about cell phone usage while driving (they want to ban it entirely, not just limit it to handsfree devices).

You'd best plonk me too.

Me too.

[dlainhart]

You'd best plonk me too.

Me too.

I use my cellphone hands-free occasionally when I'm coordinating meeting up with someone, like air traffic control, and if it needs to eat brain cycles I pull over. The kind of conversation I can have (and have had) in my sleep (several times, actually). I don't have too much of a problem with pizza delivery boys doing such a thing, as long as they're not simultaneously smoking blunts.
People who call me, knowing that I am on the road, make me mad.
I pull over to text, period.
I also think people who hold conversations longer than five minutes on a cell phone while driving, like they're talking to old friends, should be lined up against a brick wall and mowed down with a Browning M2. There should be a warning sentence first, which would be forcible attendance of one of these events.

Ah, feels like the old mtr already...:-)

Dylan T. Lainhart / Binghamton, N.Y.

[kkt]

I think most of them ended up in my killfile because of their opinions about cell phone usage while driving (they want to ban it entirely, not just limit it to handsfree devices).

You'd best plonk me too.

Me too.

Me too.

[bandit957]

Usenet in general is pretty much dead. And it's all because of the Usenet Cabal: the raving lunatics and control freaks who cluttered it with spam and personal attacks in the late '90s.

There is absolutely no excuse for what happened. None. What they did was criminal.

[dlainhart]

And it's all because of the Usenet Cabal: the raving lunatics and control freaks who cluttered it with spam and personal attacks in the late '90s.

Fortunately, those Comic-Book-Guys have been de-admin'd pretty much everywhere by normal human beings.

Dylan T. Lainhart / Binghamton, N.Y.

[hbelkins]

Me too.

I actually had some of your old aliases plonked, but since I promised not to out you, I didn't list them.

Usenet in general is pretty much dead. And it's all because of the Usenet Cabal: the raving lunatics and control freaks who cluttered it with spam and personal attacks in the late '90s.

There is absolutely no excuse for what happened. None. What they did was criminal.

Aaah, the imaginary "Cabal" again.

What really killed Usenet was the "baby with the bathwater" approach that a lot of ISPs took to the anti-child porn efforts by a former New York attorney general (I always thought it was Eliot Spitzer, but others have said it was Mario Cuomo). Instead of just blocking the child porn binary groups, ISPs just did away with their Usenet feeds entirely.

[dlainhart]

What really killed Usenet was the "baby with the bathwater" approach that a lot of ISPs took to the anti-child porn efforts by a former New York attorney general (I always thought it was Eliot Spitzer, but others have said it was Mario Cuomo). Instead of just blocking the child porn binary groups, ISPs just did away with their Usenet feeds entirely.

Strictly speaking, yes, that was the final nail in the coffin. It was an easy way for ISPs to shut down NNTP servers they didn't want to maintain while looking like heroes. Pure politics.

Dylan T. Lainhart / Binghamton, N.Y.

[PHLBOS]

What really killed Usenet was the "baby with the bathwater" approach that a lot of ISPs took to the anti-child porn efforts by a former New York attorney general (I always thought it was Eliot Spitzer, but others have said it was Mario Cuomo).

Only Spitzer was attorney general then later governor; the elder Cuomo was never attorney general (but was governor).

[dlainhart]

Only Spitzer was attorney general then later governor; the elder Cuomo was never attorney general (but was governor).

It was Andrew Cuomo, during what would have been Spitzer's term.

Dylan T. Lainhart / Binghamton, N.Y.

[mgk920]

I remember Conklin, he singlehandedly destroyed the urban planning related USENET newsgroups.  The best that I could tell, he is/was a prof at a local junior college and was all in a continual snot snit because the City of Durhan, NC had the audacity to annex his house.

Mike

[J N Winkler]

I remember Conklin, he singlehandedly destroyed the urban planning related USENET newsgroups.  The best that I could tell, he is/was a prof at a local junior college and was all in a continual snot snit because the City of Durham, NC had the audacity to annex his house.

Dr. Conklin is an academic, but not with a junior college--he is a (full) professor emeritus of sociology at North Carolina Central University (AB from Colgate University, 1963; PhD from University of Pennsylvania, 1971).  Links:  Profile page, Curriculum vitae.

NCCU is a HBCU, so it was widely suspected both in MTR and the main urban planning newsgroup (alt.planning.urban) that Dr. Conklin is black.  Personally, I doubted it, and I don't know that he ever indicated whether he was.

Dr. Conklin had many axes to grind ("stop sprawling farmers!" was his take on geographical land-use management, for which Robert Cote--another high-volume APU poster--devised the cute acronym GLUM; Conklin also disliked car-derived SUVs), but in this respect he was far from alone.  There was a sizable faction in APU that was engaged in jihad against Portland and MAX, New York and NYC Transit, Washington and the Metro, etc. and the back-and-forth swiftly descended into duels of out-of-context statistics cherry-picked from the relevant transit authorities' published reports.  (Farebox recovery in particular was treated as a huge totem because it was regarded as proof that transit systems could be self-supporting.  I was never quite sure whether the transit advocates were naive enough to believe sincerely that if they produced this evidence, the other side would accept defeat instead of trying to reframe the debate on terms more favorable to them.)  It was waged at a much higher level of intellectual sophistication than in MTR, but it was still trench warfare.

Anthony Downs and his articles on location theory in Housing Policy Debate also sparked intense discussion.

My clearest memory of APU is actually the episode where someone, in an attempt to refute the alleged fuel efficiency of bicycles compared to powered motor vehicles, calculated the indirect usage of fuel by bicyclists (including, e.g., fuel required to distribute food to the supermarkets where bicyclists buy it) and estimated that bicycles had an "effective" fuel economy of 50 MPG.  It was a classic and not at all tongue-in-cheek example of how APU participants on both sides routinely treated joint costs in a slipshod if not actively deceptive way in order to build their arguments.

[formulanone]

Is anybody else going to mention that actually reading Usenet gives one a visually-induced headache compared to thread-based forum discussion, or am I on this plank alone? Hell, I first got on the web in 1995, and didn't enjoy reading Usenet or newsreaders at all. Too difficult for my eyes to read, cumbersome to wade though, and repetitious due to copious over-quoting. Slow as could be, limited search ability...it lost me very quickly.

Never mind the bitching about minor crap by some tripe-spouting keyboard warrior who demanded respect before giving an ounce of it back, and with no mechanism to deal with them. Give nobody at all some bit of controlling power, and the lowest common denominator takes over. Moderated forums work so much better...not that there aren't forums that rot apart or wilt without any management, but this isn't a problem here.

I think some of you just have to realize what's done is done...

[dlainhart]

Is anybody else going to mention that actually reading Usenet gives one a visually-induced headache compared to thread-based forum discussion, or am I on this plank alone?

Usenet was more threaded

Hell, I first got on the web in 1995, and didn't enjoy reading Usenet or newsreaders at all.

Internet =/= web. Usenet was not at all web-based. If it was, I'm sorry you were stuck with DejaNews.

Too difficult for my eyes to read, cumbersome to wade though, and repetitious due to copious over-quoting. Slow as could be, limited search ability...it lost me very quickly.

Yep, you never had a proper newsreader or NNTP server. Must've used a web interface. A pre-Gmail web interface. Bummer, man.

Our point is that what's done was already done better.

Dylan T. Lainhart / Binghamton, N.Y.


[Modified to include one line that was present in a duplicate copy of this message, and the duplicate deleted. -S.]

[kkt]

I used and still use Usenet.  There are two active groups that I still read.  In some ways, I like the Usenet interface better, doubtless partly because I can choose it.  However, I did read m.t.r briefly a couple of times and there was just too much volume.  And there were a lot of off-topic posts and religious wars that never ended.  The Usenet groups I still read have pretty much agreed to stop arguing politics, and now that there aren't a hoard of new readers every September that pretty much works out.

The ability to post pictures on the forum is very nice, though, especially for a forum like this one.

[bugo]

Do us all a favor and FUCK OFF!

Also: O-Creek Turnpike: I-144?

[formulanone]

Yep, you never had a proper newsreader or NNTP server. Must've used a web interface. A pre-Gmail web interface. Bummer, man.

Oh well. Never really knew any of that.

Found the FAQ (which was copied onto a web page) immensely helpful and interesting, though.