Airplane Designs

[roadman65]

I was wondering what the new thing is with some commercial jets now having a bent wing tip?  Instead of the traditional ones many commercial jets use these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DeRTr08WMU what you see in the video.

[Brandon]

Oh, winglets?  They improve the fuel economy of an airplane.

[SteveG1988]

Winglets are hard to retrofit to older aircraft, it can be done but an airline needs a Supplamental Type Certificate, (STC) to operate it, since they have to be tested and certified by the FAA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device

Many planes have later derivitives that have a wingtip device, the DC-10 has the MD-11 variant that has a winglet, the 737 has versions with both, but you're not going to see a 737-100/200 (with the small engines) with winglets.

And some jets don't have them since now we can get the same effect by having the end of the wing be raked.

[roadman65]

Interesting as I think all 757s have them.  You mention newer planes, and that would make sense because the Boeing 757 came out in the early 80's.  Some models were still made in the 90's which is the one's I think have those winglets as they call em.

[SteveG1988]

Interesting as I think all 757s have them.  You mention newer planes, and that would make sense because the Boeing 757 came out in the early 80's.  Some models were still made in the 90's which is the one's I think have those winglets as they call em.

The 737 has been around since 1968. you can re-engineer the jet to have them as an STC or you could order them new with it.

757 was first flown in 1983, along with the 767 a few years prior, the two were later offered with winglets, along with the 747-400 coming standard with them in 1989.

Southwest is retrofitting their early 80s era 737s with the modern glass cockpit (737-300) that the 1990s models came standard with as well as installing winglets. They have 125 737-300s left, 78 are being retired, the newest are being upgraded to be comparable to the 737NG

[SteveG1988]

Same aircraft

[Sanctimoniously]

The 747-400 has them, too.



But the 747-8 doesn't, instead going with a larger wing with raked tips.

[roadman]

I believe all of American's 737s now have winglets.

[formulanone]

Airbus A320s and A321s have them, although it looks more like an arrow-shaped "endplate". Bombardier CRJ 700/900s use one that looks more like the 737-inspired design.

Oddly, for all the 757 flights I've taken, I don't think I've seen any with winglets.

[realjd]

Interesting as I think all 757s have them.  You mention newer planes, and that would make sense because the Boeing 757 came out in the early 80's.  Some models were still made in the 90's which is the one's I think have those winglets as they call em.

Some 757's don't.



Some new planes have them and some don't. The A380 usually has a small vertical plate on the end of the wing like is usual for Airbus. The 787 and the A350 have swept wing designs that remove the need for a separate winglet. The new 747-8 doesn't have them. The new 737-900 does.

[SteveG1988]

Interesting as I think all 757s have them.  You mention newer planes, and that would make sense because the Boeing 757 came out in the early 80's.  Some models were still made in the 90's which is the one's I think have those winglets as they call em.

Some 757's don't.



Some new planes have them and some don't. The A380 usually has a small vertical plate on the end of the wing like is usual for Airbus. The 787 and the A350 have swept wing designs that remove the need for a separate winglet. The new 747-8 doesn't have them. The new 737-900 does.

737-900 has been around since 1997, and actually isn't a popular model. On the 737MAX (future generation) they're still going with a wingtip device, "A new type of wingtip device is to be introduced on the new 737 versions. Resembling a three-way hybrid between a blended winglet, wingtip fence, and raked wingtip, Boeing states that this new design should deliver an additional 1.5% improvement in fuel economy over the 10—12% improvement already expected for the 737 MAX."

[realjd]

737-900 has been around since 1997, and actually isn't a popular model. On the 737MAX (future generation) they're still going with a wingtip device, "A new type of wingtip device is to be introduced on the new 737 versions. Resembling a three-way hybrid between a blended winglet, wingtip fence, and raked wingtip, Boeing states that this new design should deliver an additional 1.5% improvement in fuel economy over the 10—12% improvement already expected for the 737 MAX."

The 737 MAX is the one I was thinking of. I got the terminology confused with the 737NG of which the -900 is a variant.

[SteveG1988]

737-900 has been around since 1997, and actually isn't a popular model. On the 737MAX (future generation) they're still going with a wingtip device, "A new type of wingtip device is to be introduced on the new 737 versions. Resembling a three-way hybrid between a blended winglet, wingtip fence, and raked wingtip, Boeing states that this new design should deliver an additional 1.5% improvement in fuel economy over the 10—12% improvement already expected for the 737 MAX."

The 737 MAX is the one I was thinking of. I got the terminology confused with the 737NG of which the -900 is a variant.

The 737 is the timelord of airliners, every few decades it gets reborn as a new model, 1968-1983 it was a JT8D powered airliner, 1983 it was given CFM56 engines that are more powerful and efficent than the 1963 vintage JT8D (727,DC-9/md80 used those as well). 1993 it was turned into more or less what it is today, the 737 NG with a glass cockpit and winglets,



1970s cockpit



2000s cockpit

[realjd]

I really had no clue that the 737 was that old! I always assumed the DC9/MD80/717 aircraft was the longest lived. That may be because Delta still has a few DC9s left in their fleet, at least for another week or two. They're replacing them mostly with the 717s they bought from AirTran/SWA.

Speaking of old planes, I always like seeing the FedEx 727s. Not too many trijets around anymore!

[SteveG1988]

I really had no clue that the 737 was that old! I always assumed the DC9/MD80/717 aircraft was the longest lived. That may be because Delta still has a few DC9s left in thine fleet, at least for another week or two. They're replacing them mostly with the 717s they bought from AirTran/SWA.

Speaking of old planes, I always like seeing the FedEx 727s. Not too many trijets around anymore!

Oh...the DC-9 is still around with us, China has the ARJ21, which they claim is indigineous...it's based on tooling for the MD-90 that was built in china in the 1990s, as well as long beach CA (no us used one was made there)

New wing and engines, but still has the DC-9 nose profile and tail

[formulanone]

That may be because Delta still has a few DC9s left in their fleet, at least for another week or two. They're replacing them mostly with the 717s...

Rode on one last week, which I assume was the final time for me, at least. They have one which dates back to 1975, first registered with Eastern Airlines!

Speaking of old planes, I always like seeing the FedEx 727s. Not too many trijets around anymore!

I thought FedEx/UPS tri-jets are all currently MD-11s? Maybe not?

[realjd]

That may be because Delta still has a few DC9s left in their fleet, at least for another week or two. They're replacing them mostly with the 717s...

Rode on one last week, which I assume was the final time for me, at least. They have one which dates back to 1975, first registered with Eastern Airlines!

Speaking of old planes, I always like seeing the FedEx 727s. Not too many trijets around anymore!

I thought FedEx/UPS tri-jets are all currently MD-11s? Maybe not?

Looks like FedEx retired their last 727 six months ago:
http://news.van.fedex.com/end-era-fedex-express-retires-last-b727

So I was right until recently

[formulanone]

Looks like FedEx retired their last 727 six months ago:
http://news.van.fedex.com/end-era-fedex-express-retires-last-b727

So I was right until recently

I figured they'd been retired well before that! Shows what I know.

[PHLBOS]

you're not going to see a 737-100/200 (with the small engines) with winglets.

Outside of Bahamas Air (are they still around?) and maybe some isolated private/charter planes; no major carrier in the US has flown the original 737-100/200 for quite a few years.

The blended winglets that one sees on many Boeing 737s (-300 and higher), the 757s and even some 767s are designed, installed/retrofitted by Aviation Partners, Inc.

Aviation Partners, Inc.

Excerpt:

In the late-90s, The Boeing Company adopted Blended Winglet™ Technology for the Boeing Business Jet, followed in 2001 by certification for the Boeing 737-700 and 737-800. Today, Aviation Partners Boeing (APB) has supplied Blended Winglet systems for almost 4,000 Boeing aircraft worldwide. In addition, APB has certified Blended Winglets for the 737-300, 737-500, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, 757-200, 757-300 and 767-300ER.

I really had no clue that the 737 was that old! I always assumed the DC9/MD80/717 aircraft was the longest lived. That may be because Delta still has a few DC9s left in their fleet, at least for another week or two. They're replacing them mostly with the 717s they bought from AirTran/SWA.

The oldest 737 model still flown by US carriers today is the 737-300/400/500 by Alaska (-400), Southwest (-300 & -500) & US Airways (-400).  The 2nd generation 737s (-300/400/500) first debuted in the early 1980s.  The 3rd generation 737s (-600/700/800/900 aka the 737-Next Generation) first rolled out in the late 1980s.

The MD-80 (aka the DC-9-80) first rolled out in 1979-1980.  American still flies the earlier MD-80 variants.  Those will certainly be retired within the next few years (merger w/US Airways or no merger).

At present, Delta's oldest DC-9 (the DC-9-50) does indeed date back to 1975.  A few years back, they had a few shorter DC-9 variants (the DC-9-30 & DC-9-40) that dated back to 1968.

It's worth noting that all the fore-mentioned DC-9s, Delta inherited from its merger w/Northwest a few years back.  The last DC-9 that Delta flew pre-Northwest merger was back in 1992.

The oldest of the 717s are from 2000.  717 production stopped after 2006 due to low demand and Boeing closed the Long Beach (originally a McDonnell-Douglas plant) facility.  Only 156 frames were made; most of which (87) are flown by AirTran.  Hawaiian Airlines also flies 13 of them for their inter-island hopper routes.

[formulanone]

Bahamas Air is still around; I've seen their planes out of FLL several times. But none of their 737s have winglets, according to Google Images.

[PHLBOS]

Bahamas Air is still around; I've seen their planes out of FLL several times. But none of their 737s have winglets, according to Google Images.

That's because Boeing & Aviation Partners, Inc. never certified the retro-fitting of blended winglets for the original 737-100/200.  The reason being that the type was already being phased out by many major US airlines at the time and doing such would've been pointless.