Time zones

[webny99]

The end of DST can't come soon enough, these past few mornings have been brutal.

This sure sounds like someone is trying to turn this into a DST thread. 

Well, it kind of already was, just a slight variant!

The end of DST can't come soon enough, these past few mornings have been brutal.

Being dark before 5:00 next week will be even more brutal. 

The early sunsets are not nearly as brutal as the late sunrises IMO. The earlier sunrise means going from waking up in the dark to waking up while it's light. The earlier sunset means going from staying awake after it gets dark to... staying awake after it gets dark.

[kphoger]

The end of DST can't come soon enough, these past few mornings have been brutal.

Being dark before 5:00 next week will be even more brutal. 

When the weather is cold, I don't have much inclination to be out and about in the evening anyway, so it might as well be dark.  It's not like I'm about to go play Frisbee down at the park when it's 18°F and windy.  Getting up and going to work while it's still dark and at its coldest, on the other hand, is what I find the least pleasant about winter, the most depressing and difficult to bear–and DST just makes that happen for a lot longer than it otherwise would.  With a 6am wakeup time, I'd have to get up before dawn from October 4 through March 24 (172 days);  because of DST, however, that span is a full six weeks longer.

The earlier sunrise means going from waking up in the dark to waking up while it's light. The earlier sunset means going from staying awake after it gets dark to... staying awake after it gets dark.

Well put.

This sure sounds like someone is trying to turn this into a DST thread. 

It's like trying to stop a train.

[Scott5114]

This sure sounds like someone is trying to turn this into a DST thread. 

It's like trying to stop a train.

I swear, I go to Nevada for one week...

[kphoger]

I swear, I go to Nevada for one week...

I swear!  We just can't have nice forum threads!

[Scott5114]

get out your damn daubers I guess

[kphoger]

get out your damn daubers I guess

Where's the square for "Ben Franklin"?

[webny99]

The graphic is great, but "dauber" alone made it totally worth it 

[kphoger]

You also left out "color shaded maps".

[Scott5114]

The graphic is great, but "dauber" alone made it totally worth it 

Don't tell me you use a regular marker on your bingo paper like some sort of pleb.

Where's the square for "Ben Franklin"?

You also left out "color shaded maps".

This is my card, get your own

[kkt]

Yes, it's Australia. Not sure if this one is the same location, but I believe it is.

(edited to add this because I got interrupted:) The time zone is "unofficial" and is used for convenience because of the hour-and-a-half jump when you cross the state line between Western Australia and South Australia.

Then US should use interval half-hour time zones such as Central Eastern Time Zone.

Where in the US can you drive across a time zone line and have to change your clock more than one hour?

In theory, if it's frozen over, from Little Diomede Island to Big Diomede Island.

I am not sure the pack ice is ever solid enough to drive.  Sled, maybe.

[hbelkins]

Am I the only one here who doesn't have circadian rhythms? If I don't set an alarm, I won't get up in the mornings. Without an alarm, it's typical for me to sleep until 10 a.m. or later, and that's if I go to bed at 10 p.m.

My sleep patterns have been messed up since I was in college, and had to stay up pretty much all night once a week the spring semester of my sophomore year putting our college newspaper together.

That's been 40 years ago and I still haven't made up all the sleep I lost.

[Scott5114]

I suspect that my natural circadian rhythm is somewhat longer than 24 hours. If I don't specifically force myself to wake up at the same time every day, I'll go to sleep/wake up later and later each day.

[J N Winkler]

Am I the only one here who doesn't have circadian rhythms?

Some people have long-lasting disturbance of their sleep patterns as a result of disease.  I have a friend who had meningitis at age four, and that was one of the consequences; another was profound hearing loss.

I suspect that my natural circadian rhythm is somewhat longer than 24 hours. If I don't specifically force myself to wake up at the same time every day, I'll go to sleep/wake up later and later each day.

Most humans have a daily period of 25 hours, so retarding sleep/wake times one hour every day is what tends to happen in environments with absolutely no natural light.

[kphoger]

What did you just call Scott?

[Scott5114]

I suspect that my natural circadian rhythm is somewhat longer than 24 hours. If I don't specifically force myself to wake up at the same time every day, I'll go to sleep/wake up later and later each day.

Most humans have a daily period of 25 hours, so retarding sleep/wake times one hour every day is what tends to happen in environments with absolutely no natural light.

This makes sense. Because of my long period of time working swing and graveyard shifts, my body appears to be trained to no longer use natural light as a cue to trigger sleep/wake cycles. (And because of the necessity of sleeping while the sun was out while on 2nd/3rd shift, all of the sleeping areas of our house have as little natural light as is practical, thanks to the use of heavy blackout curtains. So even if it weren't, there wouldn't be much natural light for it to go on anyway.)

What did you just call Scott?

It's J.N. Winkler, so I am sure it is accurate and well-researched.

[J N Winkler]

What did you just call Scott?

It's J.N. Winkler, so I am sure it is accurate and well-researched.

Thanks for the kind words!  The bit about the 25-hour natural cycle is actually a staple of introductory psychology classes--I picked it up from a textbook I used to study for the AP Psychology exam.  It was found through experiments in which subjects were put in underground bunkers for several weeks and allowed to control their artificial lighting, though they were sheltered from natural light and timekeeping devices.  Wikipedia says more recent research, performed about 20 years ago with the aim of controlling for the phase-delaying effects of artificial light, has found a natural daily cycle closer to 24 hours (24.09 hours for women and 24.19 for men).

[kkt]

Yes, the natural cycle in the absence of natural light is longer than 24 hours.  But the natural cycle in most people resets with morning daylight, or an artificial substitute that's bright enough.

[NWI_Irish96]

Am I the only one here who doesn't have circadian rhythms? If I don't set an alarm, I won't get up in the mornings. Without an alarm, it's typical for me to sleep until 10 a.m. or later, and that's if I go to bed at 10 p.m.

My sleep patterns have been messed up since I was in college, and had to stay up pretty much all night once a week the spring semester of my sophomore year putting our college newspaper together.

That's been 40 years ago and I still haven't made up all the sleep I lost.

My wife is similar. If she doesn't set an alarm and a cat doesn't start licking her face, she'll sleep 10+ hours.

I can't sleep more than 8.5-9 hours unless I'm sick or have been really short on sleep the previous couple days. I wake up before my alarm goes off more days than not.

[kphoger]

My wife is similar. If she doesn't set an alarm and a cat doesn't start licking her face, she'll sleep 10+ hours.

And?!

[hotdogPi]

My wife is similar. If she doesn't set an alarm and a cat doesn't start licking her face, she'll sleep 10+ hours.

And?!

It's correct as is, due to both sides being negatives. If she sets an alarm, the first part won't be true, so it won't apply. If a cat starts licking her face, the second part won't be true, so it won't apply.

[webny99]

I think I get what you're saying, but it still seems to me like the bolded "and" should be "or".

[hotdogPi]

I think I get what you're saying, but it still seems to me like the bolded "and" should be "or".

No, if it was or, it would be this:

My wife is similar. If she doesn't set an alarm or a cat doesn't start licking her face, she'll sleep 10+ hours.

With this modification, only (at least) one of the halves would need to be true for her to sleep 10+ hours. If she sets an alarm but a cat doesn't start licking her face, the conditional will be true, and she will sleep 10+ hours despite setting an alarm.

[kphoger]

And that's exactly what I was surprised by.  I'm well aware of the difference between the words and and or.  It just surprised me that, if a cat started licking someone's face, she would continue sleeping until the alarm sounded.

[NWI_Irish96]

First of all, my wife would be horrified if I told her there's now a 7+ post strand about her sleep habits.

Secondly, "and" is appropriate because both conditions need to be met. She must not have an alarm set to sleep 10+ hours. A cat must not lick her face to sleep 10+ hours.

It would have been equally grammatically correct, but perhaps clearer, if I had said, "my wife can sleep 10+ hours unless she has an alarm set or a cat licks her face."

[kphoger]

Wow, I haven't done logic like this in a while...

Let A = She had set an alarm.
Let B = A cat starts licking her face.
Let C = She sleeps ten hours or more.

(¬A & ¬B) ⊃ C
¬C
∴ _________ ?

Technically, he didn't say "if and only if", so it might be that his wife sleeps at least ten hours even if she sets an alarm and a cat starts licking her face.  Who knows?