DFW Projects Thread

[Stephane Dumas]

TxDOT is hosting an open house next Tuesday for a project to widen US 75 in Sherman from FM 1417 on the south side to where the current 6 lane section ends near Texoma Parkway/SH 91 south of the US 82 interchange, as well as reconfiguring the US 75/US 82 interchange, which presumably means fixing some of the obsolete ramp designs on US 82 and adding U turns for US 82 in both directions. This should fix one of the most poorly designed sections of freeway left in North Texas, with a dozen structurally obsolete bridges and an exit/entrance pair that has serious problems with backed up exiting traffic and slow merging traffic on the main lanes and a horrible weaving problem on the frontage road.

I wonder if they'll keep some ROW in the future at the junction of US-75/US-82 to put a future stack interchange when traffic level will warrant it?

Btw, there's some schematics of the freeway upgrade of US-81/287 and they show some alternatives studied with Harmon Road and N. Tarrant Parkway. http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/get-involved/ftw/us81-us287/111419-schematic.pdf

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/paris/011420.html

[In_Correct]

What exactly is the point of quoting some body and typing NOTHING after it?

[Stephane Dumas]

What exactly is the point of quoting some body and typing NOTHING after it?

I messed with the quote tags. It's fixed now.    -_-;

[Bobby5280]

Btw, there's some schematics of the freeway upgrade of US-81/287 and they show some alternatives studied with Harmon Road and N. Tarrant Parkway. http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/get-involved/ftw/us81-us287/111419-schematic.pdf

That will go a really good way toward completing a US-287 freeway upgrade from I-35W up to the TX-114 turn-off in Rhome. The upper half from Bus US-287/N Saginaw Blvd up to TX-114 should be a considerably easier process. The Northbound frontage road just needs to be extended a couple new exits built and it would be all done. TX DOT just needs to make sure no idiot developers are allowed to plop down a bunch of new stuff and driveways right up on the highway.

I like some of their plans to improve the connection between US-287 and North Tarrant Parkway. The current exit configuration SUCKS! My girlfriend and I went through that spot on the way to In-N-Out Burger. SB US-287 exiting to NB Harmon Road is very tricky, especially in the evening. You have to do a 270 degree turn through one tiny roundabout then cross the highway to another tiny roundabout. Then you have to use a back entrance through the shopping center since N Tarrant Pkwy doesn't currently connect direct with US-287.

I'm hoping they'll go with the Diamond Alternative design. The DDI alternative won't provide any access for SB US-287 traffic to N Tarrant Pkwy. It'll be the same going thru the back of the parking lot crap. The Box Alternative is okay, but it adds more traffic lights. The roundabout alternative does away with the stop lights.

[In_Correct]

What exactly is the point of quoting some body and typing NOTHING after it?

I messed with the quote tags. It's fixed now.    -_-;

Thanks. I have been seeing blank posts all the time every where. Never knew why it happened.

[rte66man]

Btw, there's some schematics of the freeway upgrade of US-81/287 and they show some alternatives studied with Harmon Road and N. Tarrant Parkway. http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/get-involved/ftw/us81-us287/111419-schematic.pdf

That will go a really good way toward completing a US-287 freeway upgrade from I-35W up to the TX-114 turn-off in Rhome. The upper half from Bus US-287/N Saginaw Blvd up to TX-114 should be a considerably easier process. The Northbound frontage road just needs to be extended a couple new exits built and it would be all done. TX DOT just needs to make sure no idiot developers are allowed to plop down a bunch of new stuff and driveways right up on the highway.

I like some of their plans to improve the connection between US-287 and North Tarrant Parkway. The current exit configuration SUCKS! My girlfriend and I went through that spot on the way to In-N-Out Burger. SB US-287 exiting to NB Harmon Road is very tricky, especially in the evening. You have to do a 270 degree turn through one tiny roundabout then cross the highway to another tiny roundabout. Then you have to use a back entrance through the shopping center since N Tarrant Pkwy doesn't currently connect direct with US-287.

I'm hoping they'll go with the Diamond Alternative design. The DDI alternative won't provide any access for SB US-287 traffic to N Tarrant Pkwy. It'll be the same going thru the back of the parking lot crap. The Box Alternative is okay, but it adds more traffic lights. The roundabout alternative does away with the stop lights.

Yet the plans appear to show the elimination of the brand new roundabouts at Bonds Ranch Road. WTF??

[Road Hog]

TxDOT is hosting an open house next Tuesday for a project to widen US 75 in Sherman from FM 1417 on the south side to where the current 6 lane section ends near Texoma Parkway/SH 91 south of the US 82 interchange, as well as reconfiguring the US 75/US 82 interchange, which presumably means fixing some of the obsolete ramp designs on US 82 and adding U turns for US 82 in both directions. This should fix one of the most poorly designed sections of freeway left in North Texas, with a dozen structurally obsolete bridges and an exit/entrance pair that has serious problems with backed up exiting traffic and slow merging traffic on the main lanes and a horrible weaving problem on the frontage road.

I wonder if they'll keep some ROW in the future at the junction of US-75/US-82 to put a future stack interchange when traffic level will warrant it?

To put in a stack at 75-82 would require some fancy engineering. There are shopping centers, a Wal-Mart and several gas stations at that location that encroach on the access roads. One way or the other, it'll be extremely expensive.

[Bobby5280]

Yet the plans appear to show the elimination of the brand new roundabouts at Bonds Ranch Road. WTF??

My guess is the roundabouts are probably being removed there because the entire exit with Bonds Ranch Road is being re-configured. The existing slip ramps will be removed. There won't be any ramps on the North side of Bonds Ranch Road. And the on/off ramp types South of Bonds Ranch Road will be switched. That will dramatically change the behavior of traffic on the frontage roads at the Bonds Ranch Road intersection, making it mostly thru traffic or traffic driving significant distances on the frontage roads.

For instance the new exit to leave SB US-287 for Bonds Ranch Road will be just past Wagley Robertson Road. That's quite a way from the current exit ramp for Bonds Ranch Road, which is just before that intersection. With the new exit ramp the motorist will have to take the SB frontage road a good distance (and over new frontage road bridges over the railroad) before finally reaching the Bonds Ranch Road intersection. Motorists are going to be driving longer distances along the frontage roads to get on and off US-287. So it might not be a good idea to have a roundabout suddenly appear in the path of that. Roundabouts are better in slower speed environments.

[-- US 175 --]

They really could stand an over- or underpass at the RR crossing west of US 287 on Bonds Ranch Rd.  The wait for the long trains backs up to 287 fairly readily.

[Bobby5280]

The home owners in the Dorado Ranch neighborhood next to that RR crossing on Bonds Ranch Road might cry foul over a tall bridge getting built over a busy double-track RR crossing. But then again I don't know how they can put up with the frequent noise of train horns blaring. Someone must have rocks in their head to be willing to buy a home where the back yard fence is right next to a very busy rail line! A bridge over that RR crossing would eliminate the train horns. The rumble from those locomotives passing nearby would still wake me in the middle of the night though.

[armadillo speedbump]

Yet the plans appear to show the elimination of the brand new roundabouts at Bonds Ranch Road. WTF??

Thank god, those traffic circles were more of Fort Worth's ridiculous one size fits all cheapout strategy.  That location was terribly designed, it is overwhelmed much of the day and was the wrong solution with a RR crossing so close.  They've already had to modify it and it is still a cluster. 

The city of Fort Worth should be ashamed of how bad they've thoroughly botched the whole far north side of the city and ETJ.  They've got such a Napoleon Complex driving them to catch Dallas in population that they're letting every lousy development get plopped down without requiring adequate funding for sufficient basic infrastructure.  So many overwhelmed roads with the most minimal designs.  Even something as simple as adding a turn lane on Blue Mound at Harmon would have made a big difference.  Years of project backlogs despite high tax rates.  So much disconnection in the grid.  I'm sure their ideological foofoo planners will try hard to keep the Tarrant/Harmon abomination screwed up.  That last option with a bunch of roundabouts smells like their insistence.

Traffic circles have their place, but FW usually implements them primarily out of cost savings and political ideology, not appropriateness.

[BrandonC_TX]

I commute the portion of US-81/US-287 that is due for reconstruction pretty much every weekday, and I have definitely noticed the amount of traffic on that corridor seems to be heavy at times.  However, I am worried about the creation of a severe bottleneck where southbound US-287 traffic merges into southbound I-35W.  Excluding the express lanes, you will have 2 SB general-purpose lanes from 35W north of 81/287 plus 3 SB lanes from 81/287 (well, technically only 2 since one of them enters the express facility) having to merge down into just 2 lanes within the course of about a mile (at Western Center).

I would highly suggest that TxDOT add an additional general-purpose lane on I-35W in each direction between I-820 and the US-81/US-287 split, in order to have a 3-2-2-3 configuration on I-35W, concurrent with this project on US-81/US-287.  All of the bridges from north of I-820 to the US-81/US-287 split can already handle a 3-2-2-3 configuration without widening, so this would be essentially a job of simply adding pavement and restriping I-35W.  I would also suggest widening the southbound offramp from I-35W to I-820 to be dual-lane, up to the point traffic heading to WB/EB I-820 splits (which would be a job of widening the embankment and adding pavement since the bridge structure just before the split is already wide enough for 2 lanes).  Problem is that the temporary express lane exit for SB traffic south of Western Center would need to be eliminated for such a project to work, though I guess you could make a permanent express exit there by getting rid of the existing on-ramp from Western Center, move that ramp further south (there is reserved space for an interwoven ramp under the SB exit to I-820), and extending the frontage road to Mark IV Parkway (to provide access to both directions of I-820 for traffic from Western Center).

I've illustrated this idea here.

[In_Correct]

TxDOT is hosting an open house next Tuesday for a project to widen US 75 in Sherman from FM 1417 on the south side to where the current 6 lane section ends near Texoma Parkway/SH 91 south of the US 82 interchange, as well as reconfiguring the US 75/US 82 interchange, which presumably means fixing some of the obsolete ramp designs on US 82 and adding U turns for US 82 in both directions. This should fix one of the most poorly designed sections of freeway left in North Texas, with a dozen structurally obsolete bridges and an exit/entrance pair that has serious problems with backed up exiting traffic and slow merging traffic on the main lanes and a horrible weaving problem on the frontage road.

I wonder if they'll keep some ROW in the future at the junction of US-75/US-82 to put a future stack interchange when traffic level will warrant it?

To put in a stack at 75-82 would require some fancy engineering. There are shopping centers, a Wal-Mart and several gas stations at that location that encroach on the access roads. One way or the other, it'll be extremely expensive.

It is Sherman. Sherman has been bypassed and migrated numerous times over the decades. All of those Eisenhower Parkways, Texoma Parkways, Spur 503s, Highway 91s, and Denison Dams are different versions of The Unfinished Corridor before it got realigned.

They used to have Sher-Den Mall but migrated to Midway Mall. They migrated to Sheman Town Center. If they need to migrate one more time they would be willing to migrate again eventually. I doubt they will be against reconfiguring parking lots.

In 20 or 30 years they are going to outgrow their existing shops and will require larger buildings. They would build them farther away from U.S. 82 and The Unfinished Corridor to make room for more customers and traffic.

As For Walmart: That Walmart is too tiny (with the parking lot too tiny also) and they need to build a larger one some place else anyways.

[Brian556]

TxDOT is hosting an open house next Tuesday for a project to widen US 75 in Sherman from FM 1417 on the south side to where the current 6 lane section ends near Texoma Parkway/SH 91 south of the US 82 interchange, as well as reconfiguring the US 75/US 82 interchange, which presumably means fixing some of the obsolete ramp designs on US 82 and adding U turns for US 82 in both directions. This should fix one of the most poorly designed sections of freeway left in North Texas, with a dozen structurally obsolete bridges and an exit/entrance pair that has serious problems with backed up exiting traffic and slow merging traffic on the main lanes and a horrible weaving problem on the frontage road.

I wonder if they'll keep some ROW in the future at the junction of US-75/US-82 to put a future stack interchange when traffic level will warrant it?

To put in a stack at 75-82 would require some fancy engineering. There are shopping centers, a Wal-Mart and several gas stations at that location that encroach on the access roads. One way or the other, it'll be extremely expensive.

It is Sherman. Sherman has been bypassed and migrated numerous times over the decades. All of those Eisenhower Parkways, Texoma Parkways, Spur 503s, Highway 91s, and Denison Dams are different versions of The Unfinished Corridor before it got realigned.

They used to have Sher-Den Mall but migrated to Midway Mall. They migrated to Sheman Town Center. If they need to migrate one more time they would be willing to migrate again eventually. I doubt they will be against reconfiguring parking lots.

In 20 or 30 years they are going to outgrow their existing shops and will require larger buildings. They would build them farther away from U.S. 82 and The Unfinished Corridor to make room for more customers and traffic.

As For Walmart: That Walmart is too tiny (with the parking lot too tiny also) and they need to build a larger one some place else anyways.

SH 91 (Formerly SH 75-A) over Denison Dam was never US 69/75. The sections of SH 91 that are Texoma Pkwy and Armstrong Av were US 75. Map that shows this: https://tslarc.tsl.texas.gov/maps/map04873.jpg

Before the bridge at the current location, it used a toll bridge located to  the east of the RR bridge. A pier from that bridge still exists. Here's a map that shows it: https://tslarc.tsl.texas.gov/maps/map06156.jpg

[dfwmapper]

Btw, there's some schematics of the freeway upgrade of US-81/287 and they show some alternatives studied with Harmon Road and N. Tarrant Parkway. http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/get-involved/ftw/us81-us287/111419-schematic.pdf

That DDI is wild. Who looks at a DDI and says, "This isn't complicated enough, let's add a flyover and a loop ramp."?

[Chris]

Yes it looks wild!

[rte66man]

The home owners in the Dorado Ranch neighborhood next to that RR crossing on Bonds Ranch Road might cry foul over a tall bridge getting built over a busy double-track RR crossing. But then again I don't know how they can put up with the frequent noise of train horns blaring. Someone must have rocks in their head to be willing to buy a home where the back yard fence is right next to a very busy rail line! A bridge over that RR crossing would eliminate the train horns. The rumble from those locomotives passing nearby would still wake me in the middle of the night though.

I was stuck there for about 20 minutes the other day.  I believe that is a quiet zone as I don't recall hearing any train horns while in the area. IMO an over/underpass is desperately needed along with a widening to a minimum of 5 lanes from 35W west to Bus81/287. Most of the ROW is already there.

[In_Correct]

The home owners in the Dorado Ranch neighborhood next to that RR crossing on Bonds Ranch Road might cry foul over a tall bridge getting built over a busy double-track RR crossing. But then again I don't know how they can put up with the frequent noise of train horns blaring. Someone must have rocks in their head to be willing to buy a home where the back yard fence is right next to a very busy rail line! A bridge over that RR crossing would eliminate the train horns. The rumble from those locomotives passing nearby would still wake me in the middle of the night though.

I was stuck there for about 20 minutes the other day.  I believe that is a quiet zone as I don't recall hearing any train horns while in the area. IMO an over/underpass is desperately needed along with a widening to a minimum of 5 lanes from 35W west to Bus81/287. Most of the ROW is already there.

That neighbourhood is located near the rail lines, the U.S. 287, a bridge over the rail lines, and a bridge over Bonds Ranch Road. The houses have fences to separate themselves from the infrastructure. It will not hurt any thing to add a third bridge so Bonds Ranch Road can be grade separated from the rail lines. Bonds Ranch Road has three other rail road crossings that could easily have bridges over them. I never like when I exit a grade separated highway only to find rail road crossings. The parallel rail lines near a grade separated highway should be grade separated also.

[BrandonC_TX]

I am surprised at the lack of long-range planning for the SH 114 corridor between FM 156 near Justin and US 287 in Rhome.  TxDOT should be making every effort to make this a freeway corridor in the future.  Ending a freeway at a school zone is not a smart idea.  It looks like there is some construction (or was) on the north side of 114 at Harriet Creek Parkway just north of the Northwest ISD complex that would now interfere with a future freeway.  It may come down to taking land from NISD (as well as any buildings added on the north side of 114) to make room for a freeway at this location; the special programs center would be less of a loss than the stadium.  If development adjacent to 114 continues, SH 114 will wind up in a situation just like US 380 between Denton and McKinney, needing a freeway upgrade but unable to get one.

It is also unfortunate that TxDOT, the City of Fort Worth, and the City of Northlake allowed development so close to the I-35W and SH 114 intersection, making the future construction of a stack interchange there much more of a challenge.  This is not a location that should be stuck with a volleyball interchange.

Ending the SH 114 freeway at FM 156 would have been a bit more tolerable when SH 170 was planned to continue west of I-35W (to at least US 287), but as SH 170 is now planned to end at 35W, 114 will eventually need to be a freeway all the way to Rhome (or the SH 170 freeway revived).  I believe local opposition in the Haslet area (including by the City of Haslet) killed the SH 170 freeway west of I-35W.  Housing demand is high in this area and development is going to happen, regardless of whether SH 114 becomes a freeway or not.

[armadillo speedbump]

Looks like the 3rd free lane each way will finally be added to I-820 between I-35W and 121, to be opened by June 2024.  Traffic hit the trigger threshold that requires the North Tarrant Express to build those.  Also adding a toll lane each way on 183/121 between I-820 and where 121 splits off in Bedford in that time frame. 

NTE requesting to add more toll lanes on 183 between the 121 split and east of 161.

In the early part of Segment 6 of this presentation: 

https://nctcog.swagit.com/play/02272020-674

[BrandonC_TX]

Looks like the 3rd free lane each way will finally be added to I-820 between I-35W and 121, to be opened by June 2024.  Traffic hit the trigger threshold that requires the North Tarrant Express to build those.  Also adding a toll lane each way on 183/121 between I-820 and where 121 splits off in Bedford in that time frame. 

NTE requesting to add more toll lanes on 183 between the 121 split and east of 161.

In the early part of Segment 6 of this presentation: 

https://nctcog.swagit.com/play/02272020-674

That third lane on 820 is needed badly.  I also hope something is done about that horrible bottleneck going westbound at Holiday Lane.  Question is how long those traffic improvements will last (due to induced demand).  Eventually I would also like to see a fourth free lane on 183/121 from 820 to the 121 split (though that road was not built with free lane additions in mind, so "skinny lanes" would be an unfortunate necessity there).

Now if only there could be a third lane added on 35W from 820 north to the 287 split.

[In_Correct]

Refuse the Skinny Lanes before they narrow to 6 feet.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is pretty much fictional at this point so I don't intend to start too much discussion on it but does anyone every think a Grand Toll Road like the Houston outer loop will be proposed in DFW? It really needs it and would be utilized in both directions. They need a entire new loop that wraps around the entire metro and connects each end of all the freeways the seemingly degrade into a surface street.

I'm not really even worried about signing as it would make more sense to have one end signed as X35 and the other X45(given an I-45 extension) just a simple DFW Bypass to Houston or Austin would suffice for the time being.

Such a road should be completed no later than a decade from now as it was needed in the 90s. I would be more than happy with this being a toll road which I usually oppose. Why isn't this even being merely considered and studied? I can't think of too many cities in need of a bypass worse than Dallas.

[Stephane Dumas]

This is pretty much fictional at this point so I don't intend to start too much discussion on it but does anyone every think a Grand Toll Road like the Houston outer loop will be proposed in DFW?

There might be Loop 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Highway_Loop_9  But it's doubful it all of Loop 9 will be a tollway.

[Plutonic Panda]

Even better if it isn't tolled but I highly doubt with all of the pressing needs in Texas a project of this magnitude could be feasible without tolls if they want to have it done by 2050 let alone this decade.