Bad GPS routings through D.C.

[cpzilliacus]

One GPS navigation company, TomTom, has changed their software to not route I-95 corridor traffic through the District of Columbia (by way of I-395, I-695, D.C. 295, Md. 201 and the B-W Parkway; or I-295, D.C. 295, Md. 201 and the B-W - or, even worse, I-395, U.S. 50 (New York Avenue), and the B-W Parkway).

I spoke to the driver of a pickup truck and camper trailer with North Carolina registration headed north yesterday. He was stuck in miserable afternoon congestion on U.S. 50 in D.C.

The better route, even though it is a few more miles, is usually to follow the I-95 shields all the way.

Going though D.C., even though it is now possible without traffic signals, means running into severe congestion on the four-lane section of D.C. 295, lack of motorist services and predatory automated speed limit enforcement.  Most of the B-W Parkway is only four lanes, and (mis)use of GPS units is why heavy commercial vehicles are frequently seen on the Parkway as well.

Should VDOT and Maryland SHA consider putting up signs saying "stay on I-95" and "GPS Routing Not Advised?"

Northbound they would have to be on I-95 approaching Springfield, Va.

Southbound they would have to be on I-895 in Anne Arundel County approaching Md. 295, as well as I-95 in Baltimore City approaching Md. 295, on the Inner Loop of the Capital Beltway approaching the B-W Parkway and probably southbound on the B-W approaching the Capital Beltway.

Thoughts?  Is this a waste of resources?

[texaskdog]

My wife's friend was laughing that I print out google maps.  Well if your GPS actually worked properly 100% of the time you could laugh.  And my google maps are always manipulated by me for the real best route before printing.  GPS can never beat one of us.

[oscar]

Should VDOT and Maryland SHA consider putting up signs saying "stay on I-95" and "GPS Routing Not Advised?"

The message would need to be more nuanced.  The advice to stay on I-95 for through traffic to destinations on the other side of the Beltway (Springfield VA or beyond for southbound traffic, Laurel MD and beyond for northbound traffic) is sound.  Not so much for destinations within the Beltway, including Arlington and parts of Alexandria.  (But definitely steer traffic away from New York Ave./US 50, except for destinations in D.C.'s northeast quadrant.)

I'm not sure how to phrase the signs at the locations cpzilliacus recommends.  But there probably should also be signs on I-395 west of the Third Street Tunnel, and the B.W. Parkway and US 50 before the New York Ave./DC 295 interchange, to discourage through traffic use of New York Ave.

The overhead signs on I-95/495 southbound, and I-95 northbound, already steer traffic heading toward Richmond southbound and Baltimore northbound to stay on the Beltway around D.C.

ISTM that "GPS Routing Not Advised", without a qualifier on which GPS routings are ill-advised, would confuse motorists whose GPS units are already correctly routing them around D.C.  Such signs are most appropriate directed at truckers, to avoid specific routes, in places where GPS units still steer them onto truck-inappropriate routes.

[1995hoo]

I've also seen portable VMS units advising people not to follow their sat-navs in situations where there's a new traffic pattern–for example, around Thanksgiving of last year VDOT had such notices posted on southbound Route 29 between Warrenton and Opal when they opened the new overpass and exit for traffic heading for Route 17 to Fredericksburg. The idea of avoiding DC doesn't really fit that scenario either.

Virginia already has some signs south of the Springfield Interchange advising long-distance traffic to follow I-95, although the current construction project means you never know exactly what you'll find from one week to the next. There was at least one sign referring to "NY–NJ" saying to follow I-95. It was ground-mounted off to the right. (I'm not sure whether it's still there. If I remember, I will look on Saturday when we play golf in Woodbridge.) I thought it would have been more effective as an overhead sign above the appropriate lanes, but on the other hand, the problem at the Springfield Interchange is simply the sheer number of signs in such a short amount of space. VDOT's posted some new APL signs on northbound I-95 approaching where its flyover splits off to the left, and while they are better than the old pull-through signs that sometimes assigned multiple arrows to the same lane, it's still a heck of a lot of information for the unfamiliar motorist to digest. That's always going to be an issue there, of course. I know this idea will be controversial with some people, but perhaps a sign or two with long-distance control cities (similar to the ones in Petersburg) might be useful there to emphasize the concept "Baltimore and New York traffic use these two lanes ONLY." If there's any interchange where getting in the correct lane matters, it's that one.

I've noticed that the signs on the Southwest—Southeast Freeway are still in serious need of upgrading even though they've made some progress. I assume part of that is due to the incomplete Southeast Boulevard project. But if you look at all the new signs, the BGSs for the new ramps from the 11th Street Bridge to 295 do not use any control cities in either direction. Northbound DC-295 is signed "TO US-50"; southbound I-295 is signed "TO I-95/I-495." It'd be helpful to add at least Annapolis onto the northbound sign (I'm unsure about Baltimore due to the truck restriction cpzilliacus noted), but I'm not sure what to post for southbound. Either way, there also ought to be a sign or two prior to the split where I-395 bears off into the tunnel. Even if the goal is to have thru traffic use the Beltway, why not recognize that (a) some people go the wrong way and (b) DC is such a major tourist destination that there will be people who visit the city and then want to leave via these routes? Having control cities on those signs just makes a lot of sense.


BTW, it's funny, I think back to the pre-GPS days in the 1990s after my grandfather* died and my two aunts would drive down from Brooklyn, with my grandmothers as passengers, to visit for Thanksgiving or whatever. The one place I had to be super-duper thorough in giving directions was where I-95 hits the Beltway near College Park. One year they missed that turn, went over the Wilson Bridge, and continued south down I-95 (we lived off Route 236 near Fairfax; they went the wrong way in Springfield because none of the signs matched my directions). They finally called from Dumfries and noted, "We think we went the wrong way because we didn't ever remember a drawbridge before."

*I only knew one of my grandfathers because my father's father died long before I was born, so I grew up with three grandparents.

[Mapmikey]

Virginia already has some signs south of the Springfield Interchange advising long-distance traffic to follow I-95, although the current construction project means you never know exactly what you'll find from one week to the next. There was at least one sign referring to "NY–NJ" saying to follow I-95. It was ground-mounted off to the right. (I'm not sure whether it's still there. If I remember, I will look on Saturday when we play golf in Woodbridge.)

This sign is standing as of this morning.

There is also the Baltimore/New York City on the I-95 BGS in Woodbridge coupled with a BGS that says Washington DC use I-395 8 miles.

Not sure why the BGS's closer to the beltway that have Baltimore don't continue to mention New York City as well...

Mapmikey

[cpzilliacus]

My wife's friend was laughing that I print out google maps.  Well if your GPS actually worked properly 100% of the time you could laugh.  And my google maps are always manipulated by me for the real best route before printing.  GPS can never beat one of us.

Google Maps also mishandles the trip, happily routing southbound trips via the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, Md. 201, D.C. 295, I-295 all the way to the Maryland side of the Wilson Bridge.

And it does the flipside headed north.

[cpzilliacus]

Should VDOT and Maryland SHA consider putting up signs saying "stay on I-95" and "GPS Routing Not Advised?"

The message would need to be more nuanced.  The advice to stay on I-95 for through traffic to destinations on the other side of the Beltway (Springfield VA or beyond for southbound traffic, Laurel MD and beyond for northbound traffic) is sound.  Not so much for destinations within the Beltway, including Arlington and parts of Alexandria.  (But definitely steer traffic away from New York Ave./US 50, except for destinations in D.C.'s northeast quadrant.)

That makes sense.

I'm not sure how to phrase the signs at the locations cpzilliacus recommends.  But there probably should also be signs on I-395 west of the Third Street Tunnel, and the B.W. Parkway and US 50 before the New York Ave./DC 295 interchange, to discourage through traffic use of New York Ave.

Though the National Park Service is notoriously reticent about putting up new signs on its parkways.

There should also be a sign on northbound D.C. 295 or Md. 201 before U.S. 50 reading TRUCK ROUTE to I-95 use U.S. 50 East.  That one should have a GPS Routing Not Advised, as I have seen trucks coming north out of D.C. taking the B-W Parkway (and sometimes getting stopped by the U.S. Park Police near the Pepsi plant).

The overhead signs on I-95/495 southbound, and I-95 northbound, already steer traffic heading toward Richmond southbound and Baltimore northbound to stay on the Beltway around D.C.

I also suspect that some people with GPS assume that the sat-nav instructions are infallibly correct, and do not look at any signs unless they absolutely have to.

ISTM that "GPS Routing Not Advised", without a qualifier on which GPS routings are ill-advised, would confuse motorists whose GPS units are already correctly routing them around D.C.  Such signs are most appropriate directed at truckers, to avoid specific routes, in places where GPS units still steer them onto truck-inappropriate routes.

Good point.  See above for an example where one might be useful.

[cpzilliacus]

I've also seen portable VMS units advising people not to follow their sat-navs in situations where there's a new traffic pattern–for example, around Thanksgiving of last year VDOT had such notices posted on southbound Route 29 between Warrenton and Opal when they opened the new overpass and exit for traffic heading for Route 17 to Fredericksburg. The idea of avoiding DC doesn't really fit that scenario either.

I agree. These changes are slowly coming, but are definitely permanent.

Virginia already has some signs south of the Springfield Interchange advising long-distance traffic to follow I-95, although the current construction project means you never know exactly what you'll find from one week to the next. There was at least one sign referring to "NY–NJ" saying to follow I-95. It was ground-mounted off to the right. (I'm not sure whether it's still there. If I remember, I will look on Saturday when we play golf in Woodbridge.) I thought it would have been more effective as an overhead sign above the appropriate lanes, but on the other hand, the problem at the Springfield Interchange is simply the sheer number of signs in such a short amount of space. VDOT's posted some new APL signs on northbound I-95 approaching where its flyover splits off to the left, and while they are better than the old pull-through signs that sometimes assigned multiple arrows to the same lane, it's still a heck of a lot of information for the unfamiliar motorist to digest. That's always going to be an issue there, of course. I know this idea will be controversial with some people, but perhaps a sign or two with long-distance control cities (similar to the ones in Petersburg) might be useful there to emphasize the concept "Baltimore and New York traffic use these two lanes ONLY." If there's any interchange where getting in the correct lane matters, it's that one.

SHA ought to have one sign panels on I-95 southbound in Beltsville reading something like:

Richmond Va
Rocky Mount N C
Durham N C
Follow 95 South

If nothing else, it would piss-off the Big Ten running dogs and lackeys in College Park. 

Maybe Chapel Hill N C ought to be there as well?

I've noticed that the signs on the Southwest—Southeast Freeway are still in serious need of upgrading even though they've made some progress. I assume part of that is due to the incomplete Southeast Boulevard project. But if you look at all the new signs, the BGSs for the new ramps from the 11th Street Bridge to 295 do not use any control cities in either direction. Northbound DC-295 is signed "TO US-50"; southbound I-295 is signed "TO I-95/I-495." It'd be helpful to add at least Annapolis onto the northbound sign (I'm unsure about Baltimore due to the truck restriction cpzilliacus noted), but I'm not sure what to post for southbound. Either way, there also ought to be a sign or two prior to the split where I-395 bears off into the tunnel. Even if the goal is to have thru traffic use the Beltway, why not recognize that (a) some people go the wrong way and (b) DC is such a major tourist destination that there will be people who visit the city and then want to leave via these routes? Having control cities on those signs just makes a lot of sense.

Even though both D.C. 295 and I-295 are frequently badly congested, I think control cities of Annapolis and Baltimore should be there (we deal with Baltimore and trucks with the sign I suggested to Oscar above). And they are better for out-of-town traffic than I-395 and U.S. 50 (New York Avenue).

BTW, it's funny, I think back to the pre-GPS days in the 1990s after my grandfather* died and my two aunts would drive down from Brooklyn, with my grandmothers as passengers, to visit for Thanksgiving or whatever. The one place I had to be super-duper thorough in giving directions was where I-95 hits the Beltway near College Park. One year they missed that turn, went over the Wilson Bridge, and continued south down I-95 (we lived off Route 236 near Fairfax; they went the wrong way in Springfield because none of the signs matched my directions). They finally called from Dumfries and noted, "We think we went the wrong way because we didn't ever remember a drawbridge before."

I once had some guys working for me that had to drive from Frederick, Md. to Remington, Va. by way of U.S. 15.

They got terribly lost because they missed the place on the Leesburg Bypass where U.S. 15 exits off of itself just south of town, and ended up in Round Hill before they called me.

*I only knew one of my grandfathers because my father's father died long before I was born, so I grew up with three grandparents.

I can relate.  I never knew my maternal grandmother.

[Alps]

Four signs total:

I-95 NB approaching Beltway, and again at the I-295 exit: "Best Route to North of DC - Follow I-95"
I-95 SB/I-495 at B-W Parkway, and B-W Parkway SB approaching Beltway: "Best Route to South of DC - Follow I-95"

[akotchi]

My wife's friend was laughing that I print out google maps.  Well if your GPS actually worked properly 100% of the time you could laugh.  And my google maps are always manipulated by me for the real best route before printing.  GPS can never beat one of us.

Google Maps also mishandles the trip, happily routing southbound trips via the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, Md. 201, D.C. 295, I-295 all the way to the Maryland side of the Wilson Bridge.

And it does the flipside headed north.

For my latest trip south (to Parris Island, SC), Google Maps, starting in Baltimore, sent me down I-895, Md. 295/BW Parkway, DC 295, then I-695 and I-395.  I ignored most of it, but detoured onto U.S. 50 and DC 295 to ride through the new portions of I-695, then I-395 back to I-95.

[froggie]

IMO, something that would be more appropriate would be along the lines of the travel time signs in the Hampton Roads area, that show the travel time to a destination for two different routes.  I.e. from I-64 near Fort Eustis to VA 168 South via I-64/HRBT or I-664/MMBT.  Something similar could be put up on I-95 on either side of the Beltway.

[jeffandnicole]

It's a tough situation because we seem to be referring to one GPS company.  It wouldn't be fair to use blanket statements regarding GPS just because one company is routing people a certain way.

If another company's GPS routes people to stay on I-95, and a sign says "Ignore GPS", they may wind up taking the congested I-395, I-695, D.C. 295, Md. 201 and the B-W Parkway routing!

As for signage...it would be a bit unfair to post any sort of static signage other than the pull-thru/destination signage already posted...because there's a long history of why that signage was posted in the first place...and one we talk about often and debate throughout these boards.

The only additional signage that I would suggest would be Time Travel signage.  Coming North, approaching the Capital Beltway, a sign could state the following:

Travel Times to Baltimore via:

I-95 North/I-495 East:          1 Hour 08 Minutes
I-495 North:                        1 Hour 19 Minutes
I-395 North to MD 295 North: 1 Hour 21 Minutes

With such a distance though, there are many variables that could pop up along the way.  In fact, when I was typing this post and researching the current travel times, one of the directions jumped about 10 minutes in time!

But, at least this will inform people that know they are continuing to Baltimore what best routes are currently, and won't dissuade motorists trying to reach closer destinations from ignoring their GPS!

[cpzilliacus]

`

Four signs total:

I-95 NB approaching Beltway, and again at the I-295 exit: "Best Route to North of DC - Follow I-95"
I-95 SB/I-495 at B-W Parkway, and B-W Parkway SB approaching Beltway: "Best Route to South of DC - Follow I-95"

I agree with those, but they are not enough, because GPS programs want to route I-95 trips from Baltimore onto Md. 295 (Baltimore-Washington Parkway) from both I-95 and I-895 southbound. 

Md. 295 is a wonderful road, but most of it is only four lanes (2 in each direction), and it is extremely prone to weekend and holiday congestion (perhaps in part because of GPS units and perhaps in part of the new and massive casino complex adjacent to Arundel Mills Mall near Md. 100). 

Staying on I-95 from Baltimore to the Capital Beltway (and then south on the east and south sides of the Beltway) is nearly always the better choice, but to a network assignment algorithm that wants to compute the shortest all-freeway path along I-95, Md. 295, Md. 201, D.C. 295, I-695 and I-395 back to I-95 at Springfield, Va. are less miles.

[Duke87]

If Google Maps gets better at recommending routes based on current traffic rather than theoretical speed, this may change on its own.


The problem, really, is that it is shorter by a full ten miles to take 395/695/295 between Springfield and Baltimore as opposed to staying on 95. Thus, even with the lower free flow speed of the former route, it is still, in theory, slightly faster. The reason this route is not recommended is because congestion makes it unlikely you will be able to travel the entirety of it at free flow speed most hours of the day. If it's 3 AM, and you know where the speed cameras are, by all means, drive through DC. Otherwise, bad idea unless you're in it for the sightseeing.

I will offer one counterpoint to "stay on 95", though: it is about three miles shorter (and thus, traffic being equal, about three minutes faster) to go around the western half of the beltway rather than the eastern half which is signed as 95. If I am just driving by DC without any other particular goal in mind, I will go that way.

[cpzilliacus]

If Google Maps gets better at recommending routes based on current traffic rather than theoretical speed, this may change on its own.


The problem, really, is that it is shorter by a full ten miles to take 395/695/295 between Springfield and Baltimore as opposed to staying on 95. Thus, even with the lower free flow speed of the former route, it is still, in theory, slightly faster. The reason this route is not recommended is because congestion makes it unlikely you will be able to travel the entirety of it at free flow speed most hours of the day. If it's 3 AM, and you know where the speed cameras are, by all means, drive through DC. Otherwise, bad idea unless you're in it for the sightseeing.

I will offer one counterpoint to "stay on 95", though: it is about three miles shorter (and thus, traffic being equal, about three minutes faster) to go around the western half of the beltway rather than the eastern half which is signed as 95. If I am just driving by DC without any other particular goal in mind, I will go that way.

Reasons to not go that way:

(1) Using the I-395/I-695/D.C. 295 northbound means passing by at least 3 D.C. automated commuter tax collection stations automated photo radar speed limit enforcement stations, which mostly nail out-of-town suckers, since locals know where they are located.

(2) Little in the way of motorist services, and it is sometimes difficult returning to the freeway in the same direction.  Many gas stations in D.C. feature homeless people offering to pump the fuel or perform other "services" (like windshield cleaning).

(3) In both directions, epic congestion can form approaching the four lane section (two lanes each side) of D.C. 295 between Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E. and East Capitol Street.  For the southbound movement, there is a two lane section of I-395 approaching the 14th Street, S.W. Bridge after the "Park Police" exit.

[cpzilliacus]

I will offer one counterpoint to "stay on 95", though: it is about three miles shorter (and thus, traffic being equal, about three minutes faster) to go around the western half of the beltway rather than the eastern half which is signed as 95. If I am just driving by DC without any other particular goal in mind, I will go that way.

The west side of the Capital Beltway is generally much more congestion-prone.  Inner Loop (northbound movement on the west side of D.C.) congestion in the afternoons (weekdays and weekends) approaching and crossing the American Legion Bridge from Fairfax County, Va. to Montgomery County, Md. can be epic.  This is due in part to the afternoon peaking of traffic at Washington Dulles Airport (more than a few Montgomery County politicians and civic activists have claimed that county residents don't use Dulles).

The Inner Loop also features the only two-lane section of the entire Beltway at Exit 34, Md. 355 (Wisconsin Avenue) south.  The two-lane section short, but plenty long enough to cause horrendous congestion.

[Alps]

In general, I have found that 395-695-295 can work outside peak hours when traveling northbound (or 95-295 if desired), but should be avoided at most daylight times when traveling southbound. Not sure why, but I've never hit traffic NB. Maybe I'm just lucky. I would only do the western 495 loop on weekends, when 295 can still back up, but there is no commuter traffic to snarl the Beltway.

[Alps]

The Inner Loop also features the only two-lane section of the entire Beltway at Exit 34, Md. 355 (Wisconsin Avenue) south.  The two-lane section short, but plenty long enough to cause horrendous congestion.

Sidebar - was (n't) there an intent to extend the US 240 freeway into DC from here?

[froggie]

In the 1950s, yes.

[cpzilliacus]

The Inner Loop also features the only two-lane section of the entire Beltway at Exit 34, Md. 355 (Wisconsin Avenue) south.  The two-lane section short, but plenty long enough to cause horrendous congestion.

Sidebar - was (n't) there an intent to extend the US 240 freeway into DC from here?

Yes.  The earliest plans for the Northwest Freeway ran roughly parallel to Rockville Pike and then Wisconsin Avenue as far south as Glover Archibald Park in D.C. 

[cpzilliacus]

In general, I have found that 395-695-295 can work outside peak hours when traveling northbound (or 95-295 if desired), but should be avoided at most daylight times when traveling southbound.

I think it has to do (in part) with the inadequate interchange (especially for southbound D.C. 295 traffic) at Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E.  Traffic on Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E. westbound wanting to reach I-395 now must enter D.C. 295 southbound, then take I-695 west to I-395.  But that movement involves a cloverleaf ramp loop that must merge into the (already busy) two lanes of southbound D.C. 295 (Google Maps here), and there is a weaving conflict with southbound D.C. 295 traffic wanting to exit onto Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E. eastbound.

D.C. 295 is three lanes south of this interchange for southbound traffic, but that extra lane does not begin until after the ramp from Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E. eastbound enters (and that ramp has little traffic).

Not sure why, but I've never hit traffic NB. Maybe I'm just lucky. I would only do the western 495 loop on weekends, when 295 can still back up, but there is no commuter traffic to snarl the Beltway.

It was horrendous today due to a (relatively small) crash on northbound D.C. 295 just prior to the Maryland border at Eastern Avenue.  The queue extended back the entire length of I-695. 

[Laura]

My memory could be faulty, but in 2011 when I had a boyfriend that lived in Alexandria, I found that the many incarnations of 295 to 95 across the WW bridge was the fastest way from Baltimore.

Like Alps said, I never hit traffic NB, but I was almost always heading NB later at night, which could be why I never had issues. However, even SB usually wasn't too bad to drive.

[cpzilliacus]

My memory could be faulty, but in 2011 when I had a boyfriend that lived in Alexandria, I found that the many incarnations of 295 to 95 across the WW bridge was the fastest way from Baltimore.

Like Alps said, I never hit traffic NB, but I was almost always heading NB later at night, which could be why I never had issues. However, even SB usually wasn't too bad to drive.

No, I think you are correct.  My colleague who graduated from the same program that you are enrolled in at Morgan, normally used that route from the Morgan campus to his home in Alexandria.  But - that was before the 11th Street Bridge, S.E. interchange movements were completed.

Northbound traffic can be horrible now on almost any weekend.  I ought to plot it when I have a chance.