3 Major Northern Virginia parkways (*NOT* NPS) now primary routes.

[froggie]

http://www.vdot.virginia.gov/newsroom/northern_virginia/2012/three_major_parkways_now56533.asp

Mapmikey and I knew this was being considered, but the CTB apparently went ahead and approved it yesterday.  Fairfax County Pkwy, Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Prince William Pkwy are all becoming primary routes:

- Fairfax County Pkwy will become VA 286.

- Franconia-Springfield Pkwy will become VA 289.  The designation will run as far east as Beulah St (SR 613).

- Prince William Pkwy will become VA 294.

The VDOT release states that they'll change the signs over the next 3 months and add "Old Route xxxx" signs so drivers/businesses can become familiar.

[1995hoo]

The people who will be the most put out by the change will be the radio traffic reporters. Lisa Baden invariably referred to the Fairfax County Parkway as "7100." I don't know of anyone other than radio traffic reporters who use the numbers to refer to any of those routes.

I might have liked to have seen the numbering tweaked to make the Franconia—Springfield Parkway the same number as the bulk of the Fairfax County Parkway, given that over at Rolling Road you have to exit the Fairfax County Parkway to continue on said road. Having to exit to stay on the same road never seems entirely sensible. But I understand why they want the "main" route to be the one that has the full interchange with I-95 and to connect to Fort Belvoir.

(Hey, from a geek standpoint, having a road with any sort of dysfunction numbered as "286" is eminently sensible given that the Intel '286 processor was the one Bill Gates famously called "brain dead" because of its incompatibilities with DOS and its inadequacies with OS/2 and Windows.)

[cpzilliacus]

The people who will be the most put out by the change will be the radio traffic reporters. Lisa Baden invariably referred to the Fairfax County Parkway as "7100." I don't know of anyone other than radio traffic reporters who use the numbers to refer to any of those routes.

Well, she can now refer to it as "286." 

You know that Lisa is now heard during A.M. drive on 99.1 all-news WNEW, right?

I am very glad that the CTB did not choose numbers that might lead to confusion with nearby state highways in Maryland.  The worst two probably being Va. 193 (Old Georgetown Pike) and Md. 193 (University Boulevard and Greenbelt Road and Enterprise Road); and Va. (secondary) 650 Gallows Road and Md. 650 (New Hampshire Avenue).

Md. 286 and 289 are on the Upper Eastern Shore.  Md. 294 was also on the Upper Shore, but was decommissioned, according to MdRoads.com.

[74/171FAN]

Well it is going to be fun next time any one of my VT friends from NOVA goes home....

[1995hoo]

The people who will be the most put out by the change will be the radio traffic reporters. Lisa Baden invariably referred to the Fairfax County Parkway as "7100." I don't know of anyone other than radio traffic reporters who use the numbers to refer to any of those routes.

Well, she can now refer to it as "286." 

You know that Lisa is now heard during A.M. drive on 99.1 all-news WNEW, right?

I am very glad that the CTB did not choose numbers that might lead to confusion with nearby state highways in Maryland.  The worst two probably being Va. 193 (Old Georgetown Pike) and Md. 193 (University Boulevard and Greenbelt Road and Enterprise Road); and Va. (secondary) 650 Gallows Road and Md. 650 (New Hampshire Avenue).

Md. 286 and 289 are on the Upper Eastern Shore.  Md. 294 was also on the Upper Shore, but was decommissioned, according to MdRoads.com.

I heard that Lisa Baden is on the new station, though I haven't listened to it. I suppose she, and the other reporters, may indeed get used to the new number, though I also expect them to mess it up for a while. It's like changing your ATM PIN–the old one is ingrained in your subconscious.

I agree with you about being glad that they didn't duplicate Maryland numbers. I hate it when I listen to the radio and they refer to, say, "the Beltway at Route 50" without specifying Virginia or Maryland. Several of them are better about that than they used to be, at least. The "650" one doesn't strike me as a bad one, though, because nobody calls Gallows Road by its number. I don't know whether anyone uses the number for New Hampshire Avenue. BTW, I think VA-193 is just plain "Georgetown Pike" without the "Old" and that the "Old" belongs with "Old Georgetown Road" in Maryland (the exit between I-270 and MD-355; I forget the exit number and don't want to look it up).

[Beltway]

<<<
- Fairfax County Pkwy will become VA 286.
- Franconia-Springfield Pkwy will become VA 289.   >>>

I recommended VA-12 for the FCP and VA-25 for the FSP, based on the lowest available numbers; and based on the lower the number the more important it seems.

Wonder what the logic was for using numbers as high as 286 and 289?

[cpzilliacus]

The people who will be the most put out by the change will be the radio traffic reporters. Lisa Baden invariably referred to the Fairfax County Parkway as "7100." I don't know of anyone other than radio traffic reporters who use the numbers to refer to any of those routes.

Well, she can now refer to it as "286." 

You know that Lisa is now heard during A.M. drive on 99.1 all-news WNEW, right?

I am very glad that the CTB did not choose numbers that might lead to confusion with nearby state highways in Maryland.  The worst two probably being Va. 193 (Old Georgetown Pike) and Md. 193 (University Boulevard and Greenbelt Road and Enterprise Road); and Va. (secondary) 650 Gallows Road and Md. 650 (New Hampshire Avenue).

Md. 286 and 289 are on the Upper Eastern Shore.  Md. 294 was also on the Upper Shore, but was decommissioned, according to MdRoads.com.

I heard that Lisa Baden is on the new station, though I haven't listened to it. I suppose she, and the other reporters, may indeed get used to the new number, though I also expect them to mess it up for a while. It's like changing your ATM PIN–the old one is ingrained in your subconscious.

I agree with you about being glad that they didn't duplicate Maryland numbers. I hate it when I listen to the radio and they refer to, say, "the Beltway at Route 50" without specifying Virginia or Maryland.

Maryland's signs at the U.S. 50 ("Secret" I-595) used to read "U.S. 50 John Hanson Highway," which was good for the purpose of not confusing it with "U.S. 50 Arlington Boulevard." The mention of John Hanson Highway was removed when the old cloverleaf interchange was reconstructed in the late 1980's and all of the signs were replaced.

Another bad is "295," there being I-295 at the Maryland end of the Wilson Bridge, and "secret" Md. 295, otherwise known as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, in Greenbelt (even though the National Park Service, never, ever calls it 295).

Several of them are better about that than they used to be, at least. The "650" one doesn't strike me as a bad one, though, because nobody calls Gallows Road by its number.

I have, a few times, heard Gallows Road called "650," but fortunately it's pretty rare.

I don't know whether anyone uses the number for New Hampshire Avenue.

Sometimes "650," sometimes "New Hampshire."

BTW, I think VA-193 is just plain "Georgetown Pike" without the "Old" and that the "Old" belongs with "Old Georgetown Road" in Maryland (the exit between I-270 and MD-355; I forget the exit number and don't want to look it up).

I believe you are correct about that, though the traffic reports sometimes have called it "Old Georgetown Pike," and I want to call it that sometimes, even though it should be just "Georgetown Pike."

In an ideal world, all arterial roads intersecting with Interstates would have a route number and a road/street name posted, at least in densely-developed urban areas. 

Several of the worst examples of on-air traffic reporters using road/street names where they should be using route numbers are U.S. 50 west of the City of Fairfax, where they call it "Lee-Jackson Memorial Highway," even though that appears on no VDOT signs that I have ever seen; Va. 620 (Lorton Road, though the VDOT signs simply read "Lorton") and Va. 619 in Prince William County, which they will refer to as "Joplin Road" (also correct, but not mentioned on any VDOT signs on I-95).

Then there's the matter of Russell Road (I-95 Exit 148, not marked as anything except "Marine Corps Base Quantico"), which the reporters will use the road name instead of the exit number or "Quantico."

[Takumi]

Wow, that was fast. The number choice is a bit odd, but I had thought in the back of my mind "Now watch them all become 28X or 29X routes".

[WillWeaverRVA]

Already planning to head up there in the next couple months to take sign/terminus photos.

[Takumi]

Same. Probably March for me.

[Beltway]

Transfer of Selected Secondary Highways to Primary Highway System
http://​www.ctb.virginia.gov/​resources/2012/feb/resol/Agenda_Item_3_Resolution.pd​f

[Mapmikey]

 

Several of the worst examples of on-air traffic reporters using road/street names where they should be using route numbers are U.S. 50 west of the City of Fairfax, where they call it "Lee-Jackson Memorial Highway," even though that appears on no VDOT signs that I have ever seen; Va. 620 (Lorton Road, though the VDOT signs simply read "Lorton") and Va. 619 in Prince William County, which they will refer to as "Joplin Road" (also correct, but not mentioned on any VDOT signs on I-95).

Afternoon traffic on WTOP with Bob Marbourg (sp?) he almost always says street name with the number for any real thoroughfare he is discussing and does a passable job prefacing his alert with "In Maryland" or "in Virginia"

Here is at least one BGS with Lee-Jackson mem Hwy on it (this is on the newly designated VA 284):
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=fairfax,+va&hl=en&ll=38.868182,-77.382717&spn=0.030273,0.076818&sll=29.678359,-96.816845&sspn=0.071141,0.153637&hnear=Fairfax,+Virginia&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.867871,-77.382658&panoid=YpKjkIP2nuFyPYL8QAc0Iw&cbp=12,350.44,,0,0


Mapmikey

[NE2]

Transfer of Selected Secondary Highways to Primary Highway System
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/feb/resol/Agenda_Item_3_Resolution.pdf

Fixed link. You had a few nonprinting characters in there.

[hbelkins]

Mapmikey and I knew this was being considered, but the CTB apparently went ahead and approved it yesterday.  Fairfax County Pkwy, Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Prince William Pkwy are all becoming primary routes:

- Fairfax County Pkwy will become VA 286.

- Franconia-Springfield Pkwy will become VA 289.  The designation will run as far east as Beulah St (SR 613).

- Prince William Pkwy will become VA 294.

Interesting how this process works from state to state. Virginia requires a board vote to reclassify or renumber. In Kentucky, the Transportation secretary can do it with the stroke of a pen.

[cpzilliacus]

Several of the worst examples of on-air traffic reporters using road/street names where they should be using route numbers are U.S. 50 west of the City of Fairfax, where they call it "Lee-Jackson Memorial Highway," even though that appears on no VDOT signs that I have ever seen; Va. 620 (Lorton Road, though the VDOT signs simply read "Lorton") and Va. 619 in Prince William County, which they will refer to as "Joplin Road" (also correct, but not mentioned on any VDOT signs on I-95).

Afternoon traffic on WTOP with Bob Marbourg (sp?) he almost always says street name with the number for any real thoroughfare he is discussing and does a passable job prefacing his alert with "In Maryland" or "in Virginia"

Here is at least one BGS with Lee-Jackson mem Hwy on it (this is on the newly designated VA 284):
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=fairfax,+va&hl=en&ll=38.868182,-77.382717&spn=0.030273,0.076818&sll=29.678359,-96.816845&sspn=0.071141,0.153637&hnear=Fairfax,+Virginia&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.867871,-77.382658&panoid=YpKjkIP2nuFyPYL8QAc0Iw&cbp=12,350.44,,0,0

Thanks.  I've driven 7100 (oops, Va. 286 )  many times and forgotten that one. 

Wonder if it reads "Lee Jackson Memorial Highway" because the road was originally built with Fairfax County funding (even though VDOT has always maintained it)?

[cpzilliacus]

Several of the worst examples of on-air traffic reporters using road/street names where they should be using route numbers are U.S. 50 west of the City of Fairfax, where they call it "Lee-Jackson Memorial Highway," even though that appears on no VDOT signs that I have ever seen; Va. 620 (Lorton Road, though the VDOT signs simply read "Lorton") and Va. 619 in Prince William County, which they will refer to as "Joplin Road" (also correct, but not mentioned on any VDOT signs on I-95).

Afternoon traffic on WTOP with Bob Marbourg (sp?) he almost always says street name with the number for any real thoroughfare he is discussing and does a passable job prefacing his alert with "In Maryland" or "in Virginia"

Bob Marbourg (you spelled it correctly) is da best in the Washington-area media market when it comes to traffic reporting.  Nobody is more passionate about this type of work in this market than Bob. 

And Bob speaks on the air in complete sentences using correct English grammar - what a concept!

[cpzilliacus]

Speaking of Bob Marbourg, his radio station has a story about the renumbering this morning.

3 commuter routes to be renamed

[1995hoo]

Speaking of Bob Marbourg, his radio station has a story about the renumbering this morning.

3 commuter routes to be renamed

I find that article's wording strange in using the word "renamed" in reference to a number.

[Beltway]

Mapmikey and I knew this was being considered, but the CTB apparently went ahead and approved it yesterday.  Fairfax County Pkwy, Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Prince William Pkwy are all becoming primary routes:

- Fairfax County Pkwy will become VA 286.

- Franconia-Springfield Pkwy will become VA 289.  The designation will run as far east as Beulah St (SR 613).

- Prince William Pkwy will become VA 294.

Interesting how this process works from state to state. Virginia requires a board vote to reclassify or renumber. In Kentucky, the Transportation secretary can do it with the stroke of a pen.

It's still a straightforward process in Virginia.  Criteria studies are done, it's presented to the CTB, and they approve it.

[NJRoadfan]

Speaking of Bob Marbourg, his radio station has a story about the renumbering this morning.

3 commuter routes to be renamed

Complete with a photo from a poster here.

[cpzilliacus]

Mapmikey and I knew this was being considered, but the CTB apparently went ahead and approved it yesterday.  Fairfax County Pkwy, Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Prince William Pkwy are all becoming primary routes:

- Fairfax County Pkwy will become VA 286.

- Franconia-Springfield Pkwy will become VA 289.  The designation will run as far east as Beulah St (SR 613).

- Prince William Pkwy will become VA 294.

Interesting how this process works from state to state. Virginia requires a board vote to reclassify or renumber. In Kentucky, the Transportation secretary can do it with the stroke of a pen.

Because Maryland's State Highway Administration only maintains what Virginia would call primary routes (and some remnants of roads that used to be primary), moving a road from primary to secondary (usually county, sometimes municipal) or from secondary to primary requires agreement between SHA and the appropriate county or municipal government.

Some years ago, SHA and Montgomery County did a "swap" of some smaller streets near the D.C. line becoming county-maintained in exchange for SHA assuming maintenance responsibility for the Great Seneca Highway (Md. 119).

[hbelkins]

Because Maryland's State Highway Administration only maintains what Virginia would call primary routes (and some remnants of roads that used to be primary), moving a road from primary to secondary (usually county, sometimes municipal) or from secondary to primary requires agreement between SHA and the appropriate county or municipal government.

Some years ago, SHA and Montgomery County did a "swap" of some smaller streets near the D.C. line becoming county-maintained in exchange for SHA assuming maintenance responsibility for the Great Seneca Highway (Md. 119).

Jurisdictional transfers between the state and local (city or county) governments do require inter-agency agreements. Reclassifying a state route into one of Kentucky's four classes (state primary, state secondary, rural secondary or supplemental) or renumbering a route does not. Of course, you cannot tell what classification of road you are traveling on by the signage. At one point, a portion of US 62 in Mason County was classified as a supplemental route.

At one point, Kentucky's policy was that it would take one mile of county highway into the state system in exchange for the county government taking two miles of state highway.

There is no rhyme or reason to what happens to old roads when Kentucky builds new alignments of state routes. Some get a new number, others get turned over to local governments.

[MDRoads]

Because Maryland's State Highway Administration only maintains what Virginia would call primary routes (and some remnants of roads that used to be primary), moving a road from primary to secondary (usually county, sometimes municipal) or from secondary to primary requires agreement between SHA and the appropriate county or municipal government.

Some years ago, SHA and Montgomery County did a "swap" of some smaller streets near the D.C. line becoming county-maintained in exchange for SHA assuming maintenance responsibility for the Great Seneca Highway (Md. 119).

Quite right, what should be little more than stroke of a pen in VA is not so easy in MD.  Maryland's exchange policy is based on lane mileage, so there were a _lot_ of routes dropped/truncated in this exchange with Montgomery County.  Yet there's still the irregular old MD 121 still on the books in Clarksville, but not Father Hurley Blvd., the major connector between MD 27 and I-270, defying all logic.  Neither is the new county-built alignment (de facto MD 27) in Damascus.  Plenty of situations like these in other counties as well, resulting in 4/6 lane county boulevards intersecting narrower, sometimes 2-lane numbered state roads, like what MD 212 does in Beltsville.

[MDRoads]

Md. 286 and 289 are on the Upper Eastern Shore.  Md. 294 was also on the Upper Shore, but was decommissioned, according to MdRoads.com.

VA is safe from duplicating MD's adjacent numbering clusters in Montgomery (107-124 and 182-196) and Prince George's (197-212).  MD 286 is in Chesapeake City, MD 294 (and 295) were one-block streets in Betterton, tucked in a corner of Kent County (the least populous).

[cpzilliacus]

Because Maryland's State Highway Administration only maintains what Virginia would call primary routes (and some remnants of roads that used to be primary), moving a road from primary to secondary (usually county, sometimes municipal) or from secondary to primary requires agreement between SHA and the appropriate county or municipal government.

Some years ago, SHA and Montgomery County did a "swap" of some smaller streets near the D.C. line becoming county-maintained in exchange for SHA assuming maintenance responsibility for the Great Seneca Highway (Md. 119).

Quite right, what should be little more than stroke of a pen in VA is not so easy in MD.  Maryland's exchange policy is based on lane mileage, so there were a _lot_ of routes dropped/truncated in this exchange with Montgomery County.

Absolutely correct.  I know that among other roads, Franklin Avenue, [most of] Flower Avenue and two state-maintained chunks of Forest Glen Road east of Md. 97 were moved from state to Montgomery County maintenance as part of putting Great Seneca Highway on the state system. 

Never understood why Shady Grove Road isn't state maintenance.  Same for Randolph Road (parts of which were once Md. 183, but is now entirely under Montgomery County maintenance).

Yet there's still the irregular old MD 121 still on the books in Clarksville, but not Father Hurley Blvd., the major connector between MD 27 and I-270, defying all logic.

Yes, the strange attributes of Md. 121 and Father Hurley Boulevard (which should be part of state-maintained Md. 27 between I-270 and Md. 355) don't make any sense.

Neither is the new county-built alignment (de facto MD 27) in Damascus.

Agreed.

Plenty of situations like these in other counties as well, resulting in 4/6 lane county boulevards intersecting narrower, sometimes 2-lane numbered state roads, like what MD 212 does in Beltsville.

Like Md. 212 and Cherry Hill Road?  Or Md. 212 and Virginia Manor Road?

And not so far from Md. 212, Md. 196 (Old Columbia Pike)  north and south of the Paint Branch [of the Anacostia River] stream valley, with dead-ends at the stream itself (the bridge crossing the creek is not able to carry motorized traffic, which must use nearby U.S. 29), possibly because the county does not want to deal with the bridge (which is a large structure) in case it needs to be torn-down at some point in the future.  There was discussion in the 1990's about repairing the bridge so that local traffic could use Md. 196, but that has never happened.