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Author Topic: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville  (Read 18195 times)

tidecat

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Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« on: June 02, 2018, 11:00:15 PM »

http://www.wdrb.com/story/38282571/proposed-50-mile-interstate-would-provide-new-way-around-louisville


I can't see this ever being justifiable aside from perhaps a Shepherdsville-Mt. Washington spur from I-65.
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thenetwork

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 11:07:18 PM »

It's hard enough justifying on paper the fact that Louisville already has 2 "belts" around the city (at least to the east and south). Add this 3rd one and you might as well go ahead and call the I-75 to I-65 connection via Lexington and the Bluegrass Parkway the 4th  Far-Far-East Beltway.
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 11:28:44 PM »

Typical Kentucky. Spending big bucks on the areas that already have good roads, while county seats in rural areas are connected by glorified goat paths.

I don't know where they'll put this road, especially in Bullitt County. New housing has already eaten up just about everything in the area between Shepherdsville and Mt. Washington. (I have two first cousins who live on KY 44 near the east city limits of Shepherdsville, and my dad's two brothers live there as well, so I've seen that area grow from a sleepy rural area to a boomtown in the years since 1970.

If they really want to direct through 65-to-71 traffic around Louisville, give the Bluegrass Parkway-US 127-KY 35 corridor a number like CKC 110.
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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 01:43:49 AM »

This whole concept seems like a "belt too far".  Since the northern end is I-71 (unlikely IN would take part in such a venture), it looks like more of a "cutoff" than a beltway.  And HB is more or less correct:  upgrade US 127 to a freeway between the Bluegrass and I-64, slap a I-designation on the combination (after getting rid of the "bowtie" former-toll interchanges), and there's your Louisville bypass!  No need to acquire what would likely be relatively costly properties to place a "3/8 beltway" that doesn't even have the potential to reduce I-65 traffic into the metro area. 
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Captain Jack

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 12:02:15 PM »

The mere fact Kentucky is blowing $2MM to look at this is exactly what is wrong with government. 4 posts on here for free already has given them the answers they need.

Since I am in a generous mood, I am willing to save Kentucky 95% of this study, not to mention millions more in a common sense fix to this. Send me a $100K, and I will prepare a nice report suggesting what everyone else clearly knows.

Add a travel lane or two to the Gene Snyder.

Figure out a way to get the Bluegrass up to I-64, either via US 127, or plowing through a couple of horse farms. The latter would probably be much more beneficial to Lexington commuters.

It is nearly impossible to get to the southern sections of Lexington from the interstates, and they are contemplating a 50 mile, 3rd bypass of Louisville?
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 02:57:08 PM »

It is nearly impossible to get to the southern sections of Lexington from the interstates, and they are contemplating a 50 mile, 3rd bypass of Louisville?

There's been discussions for years about a connector to link I-75 in Madison County to US 27 somewhere near Nicholasville. The NIMBYs are up in arms over it, because they think this road will promote sprawl.

The solution to that is for the Jessamine County Fiscal Court to not approve any zoning changes and the KYTC not approve any private entrances to the connector road.
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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 03:26:05 PM »

^ They're not wrong.  At a minimum, it would promote sprawl in and beyond Nicholasville even if the connector were a full freeway with zero interchanges between US 27 and I-75.

And do you REALLY think Jessamine County wouldn't approve zoning changes?  Fat chance of that happening...

------------

As for the study...I say let them study it.  Given how hilly most of Kentucky is, $2M wouldn't buy a whole lot of "glorified goat path" upgrade, nor would it put much of a dent in major widening or bridge needs.  Where the devil comes into the details is if the local politicians tried to fund construction of the new Beltway.  THAT'S where I would question things, given needs elsewhere and given the fact that Kentucky still can't fund its portion of a MUCH NEEDED Brent Spence Bridge replacement.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 03:31:55 PM by froggie »
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Beltway

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 03:33:12 PM »

The I-265 outer loop should be completed around the west side of the metro first.
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vdeane

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 08:01:54 PM »

It seems like signing IN 295 and KY 841 as I-265 would be a good and cheap way to get people to bypass downtown.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:50:07 PM by vdeane »
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ilpt4u

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 08:54:21 PM »

The I-265 outer loop should be completed around the west side of the metro first.
Agreed.  It seems like signing IN 265 and KY 841 as I-265 would be a good and cheap way to get people to bypass downtown.
To be fair, that is the East End Crossing. I believe what is being proposed here is a West End Ohio River Crossing. I am not sure that is needed at this point. Maybe

Regarding the new East End Crossing/Future I-265, InDOT and KYTC need to add Long Distance Controls to I-265/IN 265/KY 841 signage

Coming from I-64 East and I-65 South in IN, I-265 East needs Controls of Cincinnati and Lexington. Heck, IN 265 East appoaching the Ohio River Bridge has a control of Louisville...That is ridiculous!

From KY, I-64 West and I-71 South should have I-265/KY 841 North Controls of Indy and St Louis

Take it a step further, and VMSes with logical comparitive travel times should also be installed approaching the I-265 interchanges. For example, approaching I-265 East on I-64 East in IN, should have a VMS with Travel Times to I-265/I-71 via I-265 and via I-64/I-71 Downtown, and also Times to I-265/I-64 via I-265 and via I-64/Downtown. Signs should be on I-64 East/IN, I-65 South/IN, I-71 South, I-64 West/KY.

Maybe I-65 North/KY, but it would need to be a pretty bad Downtown traffic situation to make thru I-65 Traffic want to use I-265. And coming from the South, the connections to I-64 East and I-71 North can be made via I-265, I-264, or Downtown. So maybe a VMS comparing those options
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ATLRedSoxFan

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 10:03:33 PM »

The I-265 outer loop should be completed around the west side of the metro first.
Agreed.  It seems like signing IN 295 and KY 841 as I-265 would be a good and cheap way to get people to bypass downtown.


I used to think that too, but in reality, there not enough population to spark growth even if they completed the loop back into Indiana (my mom and grandparents are from S. Indiana ( Harrison County), just not worth it. Those are REALLY small towns, not enough population to justify it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 10:06:21 PM by ATLRedSoxFan »
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cabiness42

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 08:42:36 AM »

The I-265 outer loop should be completed around the west side of the metro first.

That is some brutal terrain to get from the current SW end of the Gene Snyder up to I-64 in Indiana.  Would be a very expensive project.  Really doubt it ever even gets seriously considered.
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Beltway

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 09:38:13 AM »

The I-265 outer loop should be completed around the west side of the metro first.
That is some brutal terrain to get from the current SW end of the Gene Snyder up to I-64 in Indiana.  Would be a very expensive project.  Really doubt it ever even gets seriously considered.

Why then did they build it nearly to the Ohio River southwest of town if they didn't ultimately plan to extend it across the river?

I will grant that the terrain is rugged and the population density is low.
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seicer

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 09:44:18 AM »

Port and industrial facilities although until circa 2000 (?) it ended at a stub for what could have been a continuation west.

Henry

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 10:16:51 AM »

They should be satisfied with having I-265 completed with the East End Crossing finally open to traffic, because in my mind, this is overkill.
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vdeane

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 12:49:51 PM »

I used to think that too, but in reality, there not enough population to spark growth even if they completed the loop back into Indiana (my mom and grandparents are from S. Indiana ( Harrison County), just not worth it. Those are REALLY small towns, not enough population to justify it.
Oops!  I meant the recently completed freeway on the east side and didn't quite read the post right.  I've been quite a space case the last few days!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 08:24:02 PM by vdeane »
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thefro

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 01:13:49 PM »

The new beltway idea seems even dumber then the "Indiana Commerce Connector" in Indiana several years back (since that would actually service some decent-sized exurbs of Indianapolis).  Louisville's exurbs that far out are much smaller.

On I-265 going across the river, there's nothing on the Indiana side except Horseshoe Casino and very difficult terrain.  841 does turn into a 4-lane road that services the Industrial area/port on that side of town and eventually hits I-264.
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 01:15:00 PM »

The I-265 outer loop should be completed around the west side of the metro first.
That is some brutal terrain to get from the current SW end of the Gene Snyder up to I-64 in Indiana.  Would be a very expensive project.  Really doubt it ever even gets seriously considered.

Why then did they build it nearly to the Ohio River southwest of town if they didn't ultimately plan to extend it across the river?

It gets traffic from the east over to Ft. Knox, as well, via US 31W. It's a bit out of the way to take I-65 all the way south to KY 313, then back northwest to Ft. Knox.

As for the study...I say let them study it.  Given how hilly most of Kentucky is, $2M wouldn't buy a whole lot of "glorified goat path" upgrade, nor would it put much of a dent in major widening or bridge needs.  Where the devil comes into the details is if the local politicians tried to fund construction of the new Beltway.  THAT'S where I would question things, given needs elsewhere and given the fact that Kentucky still can't fund its portion of a MUCH NEEDED Brent Spence Bridge replacement.


No, but $2 million would fix a lot of breaks in rural areas that have been made worse by the wet weather this spring. And I don't think the Louisville outer-outer belt would ever be built, despite what the study says.

As for the Brent Spence, I'm doubtful that anything will ever be done because the anti-toll sentiment in northern Kentucky is very, very high.

Personally, the bridge isn't really a problem for me. I've had more issues well into Ohio, such as around the Paddock Road/Norwood Lateral interchanges and in the Sharonville area, closer to I-275.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 02:09:54 PM »

There has been more construction going on at the I-65 crossing and the "I-265" East Crossing over the past years.  They want to do more, now?  I would think KY would have enough on their plates with the Ohio River bridge replacement near Cincinnati (obviously in tandem with Ohio) and the I-69 Ohio River bridge at Henderson (again in tandem with Indiana).  They are also upgrading their parkways for I-69, I-169, I-369, and I-565.  You would think that they have enough to keep their attention.  Oh, they also have a big project on US-68 between Cadiz and Canton.  I would think that they would be better served by upgrading KY-44, which was terrible between Shepherdsville and West Point, and needs more upgrands east of there.
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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 03:28:42 PM »

On I-265 going across the river, there's nothing on the Indiana side except Horseshoe Casino and very difficult terrain.  841 does turn into a 4-lane road that services the Industrial area/port on that side of town and eventually hits I-264.

What about at least extending it across the river as a 2-lane or 4-lane arterial to IN-11?  Is there enough warrant for that?

Long stretch of river between Paynesville and I-64 with no river bridge.
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wdcrft63

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 06:44:27 PM »

There has been more construction going on at the I-65 crossing and the "I-265" East Crossing over the past years.  They want to do more, now?  I would think KY would have enough on their plates with the Ohio River bridge replacement near Cincinnati (obviously in tandem with Ohio) and the I-69 Ohio River bridge at Henderson (again in tandem with Indiana).  They are also upgrading their parkways for I-69, I-169, I-369, and I-565.  You would think that they have enough to keep their attention.  Oh, they also have a big project on US-68 between Cadiz and Canton.  I would think that they would be better served by upgrading KY-44, which was terrible between Shepherdsville and West Point, and needs more upgrands east of there.
Is there a state transportation plan in Kentucky that prioritizes these and other possible projects? Sounds like there is a need for one.
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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 10:07:25 PM »

This Interstate really isn't necessary. It's better than that ridiculous "eastern bypass" plan around Cincinnati, but it's still pretty unnecessary.
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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 09:15:09 AM »

On I-265 going across the river, there's nothing on the Indiana side except Horseshoe Casino and very difficult terrain.  841 does turn into a 4-lane road that services the Industrial area/port on that side of town and eventually hits I-264.

What about at least extending it across the river as a 2-lane or 4-lane arterial to IN-11?  Is there enough warrant for that?

Long stretch of river between Paynesville and I-64 with no river bridge.

The problem with building even just the bridge is that the terrain gets very steep very quickly on the Indiana side of the river.  It's very impractical to build given the limited benefit. 
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2018, 11:30:33 AM »

There has been more construction going on at the I-65 crossing and the "I-265" East Crossing over the past years.  They want to do more, now?  I would think KY would have enough on their plates with the Ohio River bridge replacement near Cincinnati (obviously in tandem with Ohio) and the I-69 Ohio River bridge at Henderson (again in tandem with Indiana).  They are also upgrading their parkways for I-69, I-169, I-369, and I-565.  You would think that they have enough to keep their attention.  Oh, they also have a big project on US-68 between Cadiz and Canton.  I would think that they would be better served by upgrading KY-44, which was terrible between Shepherdsville and West Point, and needs more upgrands east of there.
Is there a state transportation plan in Kentucky that prioritizes these and other possible projects? Sounds like there is a need for one.

There are actually three plans. One is the STIP, which I understand every state is required to do. https://transportation.ky.gov/Program-Management/Pages/2017-STIP-Book.aspx

Then there's SHIFT, which is the new prioritization plan instituted by the current governor and transportation secretary. https://transportation.ky.gov/SHIFT/Pages/default.aspx

And finally, there's the six-year highway plan enacted by the legislature. A number of projects previously authorized by the legislature were omitted from the plan when it was presented to the legislature this year, as a result of the SHIFT prioritization. Many of those projects were added back in by the General Assembly when it considered the submitted plan. https://transportation.ky.gov/SHIFT/PublishingImages/Pages/default/2018%20Enacted%20Plan%20All%20Years.pdf
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wdcrft63

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Re: Kentucky to study new interstate beltway around Louisville
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 03:40:18 PM »

So there's no lack of a plan, but perhaps there are too many plans.

In North Carolina, the STIP is the one plan. It covers ten years; the current plan is for 2018-2027. It is revised and extended every two years, and the process has begun to revise it for 2020-2029. If you're interested, this press release describes the process:
https://www.ncdot.gov/strategictransportationinvestments/2020-2029.html

The STIP describes, in mind-boggling detail, everything scheduled for the ten years, including when right of way will be acquired and when construction will occur.

The process by which projects are prioritized and added to the STIP was established by the legislature in the Strategic Transportation Investments Act of 2013. The STIP process does not to stop action by politicians and other interested parties, and we've had some well-publicized  interstate projects pushed by politicians and chambers of commerce (I-42, I-87, I-587). But for implementation these ideas have to find their home, piece by piece, in the STIP.

This process is not perfect, but it seems to be working pretty well. In particular, the ten-year horizon seems to be a good idea for prioritizing and controlling big projects like new interstate highways.
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