I-469/US 24 Ramp Construction

[westerninterloper]

and I recall that on the Ohio Turnpike near Youngstown, the control city is New York City

That's actually on I-80 after it leaves the Turnpike. The Turnpike's eastbound control city in that area, as I-76, is Pittsburgh.

Is there any idea whether the US 24 east exit from I-469 will get Toledo as a control city - or will it just stay empty?

Woodburn! 

Still on control cities, I noticed that on I-94W just before I-75 in Detroit, the control city is Chicago as well, quite early on its way through Ann Arbor, Jackson, Kalamazoo...

[westerninterloper]

and I recall that on the Ohio Turnpike near Youngstown, the control city is New York City

That's actually on I-80 after it leaves the Turnpike. The Turnpike's eastbound control city in that area, as I-76, is Pittsburgh.

Is there any idea whether the US 24 east exit from I-469 will get Toledo as a control city - or will it just stay empty?

Woodburn! 

Still on control cities, I noticed that on I-94W just before I-75 in Detroit, the control city is Chicago as well, quite early on its way through Ann Arbor, Jackson, Kalamazoo...

And one more, exiting the Indiana Toll Road to I-94 at Lake Station, IN, the control city for I-80 is "Des Moines".

Back on topic, another poster mentioned that the US24-I469 interchange was "looking like a cloverleaf". Has there been a change in design now that the farm on the NW corner is for sale?

[silverback1065]

and I recall that on the Ohio Turnpike near Youngstown, the control city is New York City

That's actually on I-80 after it leaves the Turnpike. The Turnpike's eastbound control city in that area, as I-76, is Pittsburgh.

Is there any idea whether the US 24 east exit from I-469 will get Toledo as a control city - or will it just stay empty?

Woodburn! 

Still on control cities, I noticed that on I-94W just before I-75 in Detroit, the control city is Chicago as well, quite early on its way through Ann Arbor, Jackson, Kalamazoo...

And one more, exiting the Indiana Toll Road to I-94 at Lake Station, IN, the control city for I-80 is "Des Moines".

Back on topic, another poster mentioned that the US24-I469 interchange was "looking like a cloverleaf". Has there been a change in design now that the farm on the NW corner is for sale?

Yes, i think that house got knocked down.  Last time I was in the area I saw no house.

[skluth]

and I recall that on the Ohio Turnpike near Youngstown, the control city is New York City

That's actually on I-80 after it leaves the Turnpike. The Turnpike's eastbound control city in that area, as I-76, is Pittsburgh.

Is there any idea whether the US 24 east exit from I-469 will get Toledo as a control city - or will it just stay empty?

Woodburn! 

Still on control cities, I noticed that on I-94W just before I-75 in Detroit, the control city is Chicago as well, quite early on its way through Ann Arbor, Jackson, Kalamazoo...

And one more, exiting the Indiana Toll Road to I-94 at Lake Station, IN, the control city for I-80 is "Des Moines".

Back on topic, another poster mentioned that the US24-I469 interchange was "looking like a cloverleaf". Has there been a change in design now that the farm on the NW corner is for sale?

I've noticed that generally more distant control cities are used at major interstate interchanges. E.g., the control cities out of St Louis point to Memphis and Chicago (I-55 and I-255), Indianapolis and Kansas City (I-70 and I-270), Louisville (I-64), and Tulsa (I-44). The only local city is Wentzville on WB I-64 and the interstate terminates there. Curiously, the BGS on NB I-270 at I-64 uses KC and Chicago for the I-270 traffic even though travelers to KC usually take I-64 to Wentzville before following I-70 to KC from that interchange.

[ilpt4u]

There was a nice long STL Beltway Control City discussion over in Road Related Illustrations... https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9539.3500

Long story short, I-270 North/Inner on the West Side would probably be better served with a Control of Lambert STL Airport versus anything Long Distance

I-64 West at I-270 should use Minneapolis I don't see MoDOT getting on that bandwagon anytime soon, tho. But then again, if InDOT can use Des Moines in Northwestern Indiana for I-80 West...

[NWI_Irish96]

There was a nice long STL Beltway Control City discussion over in Road Related Illustrations... https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9539.3500

Long story short, I-270 North/Inner on the West Side would probably be better served with a Control of Lambert STL Airport versus anything Long Distance

I-64 West at I-270 should use Minneapolis I don't see MoDOT getting on that bandwagon anytime soon, tho. But then again, if InDOT can use Des Moines in Northwestern Indiana for I-80 West...

Back when InDOT owned the Toll Road, they wanted people to stay on the Toll Road rather than exiting onto I-80/94 for Chicago area destinations, so using a far away place like Des Moines as the control city was part of that strategy.

[Joe The Dragon]

There was a nice long STL Beltway Control City discussion over in Road Related Illustrations... https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9539.3500

Long story short, I-270 North/Inner on the West Side would probably be better served with a Control of Lambert STL Airport versus anything Long Distance

I-64 West at I-270 should use Minneapolis I don't see MoDOT getting on that bandwagon anytime soon, tho. But then again, if InDOT can use Des Moines in Northwestern Indiana for I-80 West...

Back when InDOT owned the Toll Road, they wanted people to stay on the Toll Road rather than exiting onto I-80/94 for Chicago area destinations, so using a far away place like Des Moines as the control city was part of that strategy.

Really?? they had plans for nice high speed ramp upgrade to exit on to I-80/94

[thefarmerchris]

and I recall that on the Ohio Turnpike near Youngstown, the control city is New York City

That's actually on I-80 after it leaves the Turnpike. The Turnpike's eastbound control city in that area, as I-76, is Pittsburgh.

Is there any idea whether the US 24 east exit from I-469 will get Toledo as a control city - or will it just stay empty?

Woodburn! 

Still on control cities, I noticed that on I-94W just before I-75 in Detroit, the control city is Chicago as well, quite early on its way through Ann Arbor, Jackson, Kalamazoo...

And one more, exiting the Indiana Toll Road to I-94 at Lake Station, IN, the control city for I-80 is "Des Moines".

Back on topic, another poster mentioned that the US24-I469 interchange was "looking like a cloverleaf". Has there been a change in design now that the farm on the NW corner is for sale?

Yes, i think that house got knocked down.  Last time I was in the area I saw no house.

The house on the NE side has been knocked down. Not sure about NW side. Wasn't the plan incorporating a flyover tamp for WB24 to SB469 movement? I thought that was the reasoning for knocking down the house on the NE side.

[I-55]

Drove by a couple days ago:

- The loop ramp from NB I-469 to Rose Ave is closed and is being reconstructed with new concrete.

- The loop ramp from Rose Ave to NB I-469 has begun construction and appears to have been for some time. This will complete all movements to/from the northbound direction

- The flyover ramp from 24 has yet to begin construction, or at least I wasn't able to tell.

On a related note there is bridge work on I-469 at the bridges for US-24, IN-37, Wheelock Rd, and Maysville Rd, all of which frequently have cops stationed on site and have lane closures

[Stephane Dumas]

There was a nice long STL Beltway Control City discussion over in Road Related Illustrations... https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9539.3500

Long story short, I-270 North/Inner on the West Side would probably be better served with a Control of Lambert STL Airport versus anything Long Distance

I-64 West at I-270 should use Minneapolis I don't see MoDOT getting on that bandwagon anytime soon, tho. But then again, if InDOT can use Des Moines in Northwestern Indiana for I-80 West...

Back when InDOT owned the Toll Road, they wanted people to stay on the Toll Road rather than exiting onto I-80/94 for Chicago area destinations, so using a far away place like Des Moines as the control city was part of that strategy.

Really?? they had plans for nice high speed ramp upgrade to exit on to I-80/94

Yeah, they had once some plans for a big upgrade of that location then I mentionned in another thread. http://web.archive.org/web/20021220081218/http://nwindianahwys.homestead.com/i80909451newint.html

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

[silverback1065]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

yep, i believe this was done because the historic property in the NW corner burned down or something, allowing them to buy the land 

[SkyPesos]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

[silverback1065]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

to your point, they did this very thing at 69/14 on the other side of town. now it's a parclo.

[webny99]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

to your point, they did this very thing at 69/14 on the other side of town. now it's a parclo.

Although in this case, a cloverleaf makes sense because US 24 East is a full freeway with a lot of long distance traffic. You'd rather have that than have traffic have to stop and make left turns etc.

yep, i believe this was done because the historic property in the NW corner burned down or something, allowing them to buy the land 

Interesting. Was this the building in question?

[silverback1065]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

to your point, they did this very thing at 69/14 on the other side of town. now it's a parclo.

Although in this case, a cloverleaf makes sense because US 24 East is a full freeway with a lot of long distance traffic. You'd rather have that than have traffic have to stop and make left turns etc.

yep, i believe this was done because the historic property in the NW corner burned down or something, allowing them to buy the land 

Interesting. Was this the building in question?

i think so

[tosa]

just curious if INDOT wants to upgrade the I65/IN25 interchange in Lafayette to free flow as well

[I-55]

just curious if INDOT wants to upgrade the I65/IN25 interchange in Lafayette to free flow as well

Given the presence of immediate side streets and a concrete plant with no other entrance I doubt this will happen any time in the near future.

[silverback1065]

just curious if INDOT wants to upgrade the I65/IN25 interchange in Lafayette to free flow as well

nope, no plans any time soon at least.

[SSR_317]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

Typical of INDOT to not learn the lessons of the past and repeat the same mistakes over and over again just because they THINK it is cheaper to do so.

[SkyPesos]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

to your point, they did this very thing at 69/14 on the other side of town. now it's a parclo.

Although in this case, a cloverleaf makes sense because US 24 East is a full freeway with a lot of long distance traffic. You'd rather have that than have traffic have to stop and make left turns etc.

There's also the issue of how US 24 is routed around Ft Wayne. I'm pretty sure if I give a road geek without knowledge of this area a blank highways map, tell them where US 24 enters and leaves the map and that it bypasses the city on the freeways, a logical guess would be that it uses Lafayette Center Rd to the southern loop of I-469 before continuing as its own.

Nope, that's not what INDOT had in mind. They had I-24 loop around the west and north sides of Ft Wayne via I-69 and I-469. So you have traffic following the US 24 signage, and the people that know the Lafayette Center Rd/I-465 south loop shortcut. Had the latter been signed as US 24 like it really should've been, I'm pretty sure the WB 24 to SB 469/WB 24 ramp would've been a flyover instead.

[I-55]

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-fort-wayne-district/i-469us-24/

Just found out that the final interchange product will be a full cloverleaf instead of a flyover like originally proposed.

This is the first new full cloverleaf I've seen in a long time. The trend now seems to be removing full cloverleafs.

to your point, they did this very thing at 69/14 on the other side of town. now it's a parclo.

Although in this case, a cloverleaf makes sense because US 24 East is a full freeway with a lot of long distance traffic. You'd rather have that than have traffic have to stop and make left turns etc.

There's also the issue of how US 24 is routed around Ft Wayne. I'm pretty sure if I give a road geek without knowledge of this area a blank highways map, tell them where US 24 enters and leaves the map and that it bypasses the city on the freeways, a logical guess would be that it uses Lafayette Center Rd to the southern loop of I-469 before continuing as its own.

Nope, that's not what INDOT had in mind. They had I-24 loop around the west and north sides of Ft Wayne via I-69 and I-469. So you have traffic following the US 24 signage, and the people that know the Lafayette Center Rd/I-465 south loop shortcut. Had the latter been signed as US 24 like it really should've been, I'm pretty sure the WB 24 to SB 469/WB 24 ramp would've been a flyover instead.

Very similar situation with US-52 in Lafayette, where given the endpoints you'd think 1) Sagamore Parkway (4 lane divided), 2) Veterans Memorial Parkway (4 lane undivided or 2 lane with shoulders), then 3) Teal Road (narrow city street with West Virginia Terrain). INDOT does not appear privy to swapping maintenance responsibilities when they already operate a continuous route, regardless of the quality of the route or other options presented.

[silverback1065]

to be fair with 24, that portion from lafayette center to 69 was there as a divided highway for much longer than lafayette center's 4 lane segment. i think the 24 segment has been around since the late 50s. also 24 used to go south on 69 then east on 469. they flipped it a few years ago i think because of the garbage interchange at 469/24 (the same one they are fixing now).

[I-55]

to be fair with 24, that portion from lafayette center to 69 was there as a divided highway for much longer than lafayette center's 4 lane segment. i think the 24 segment has been around since the late 50s. also 24 used to go south on 69 then east on 469. they flipped it a few years ago i think because of the garbage interchange at 469/24 (the same one they are fixing now).

Here's my take:

• US-24 was completed to exit 302 before I-469 was even constructed
• I-469 was originally going to tie into I-69 at 302 until GM announced their plant at 296
• I-469 is built south to north form exit 296
• US-24 is routed on 469 south side when built to exit 21
• US-24 is rerouted to north side years later because it is shorter distance from 302
• US-24 should be routed on 900/Lafayette Center, existing US-24 should be IN-924, IN-114 takes over 24 to exit 302.

[silverback1065]

to be fair with 24, that portion from lafayette center to 69 was there as a divided highway for much longer than lafayette center's 4 lane segment. i think the 24 segment has been around since the late 50s. also 24 used to go south on 69 then east on 469. they flipped it a few years ago i think because of the garbage interchange at 469/24 (the same one they are fixing now).

Here's my take:

• US-24 was completed to exit 302 before I-469 was even constructed
• I-469 was originally going to tie into I-69 at 302 until GM announced their plant at 296
• I-469 is built south to north form exit 296
• US-24 is routed on 469 south side when built to exit 21
• US-24 is rerouted to north side years later because it is shorter distance from 302
• US-24 should be routed on 900/Lafayette Center, existing US-24 should be IN-924, IN-114 takes over 24 to exit 302.

Really? that makes a lot of sense, I always wondered why 469 ends where it does on the south side. 469 isn't very useful south of 30 for non trucks.