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Exits with multiple street names

Started by Quillz, September 16, 2022, 05:13:32 PM

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Quillz

So how is this supposed to work? I've read that the street that gets listed first (at the top) is supposed to be the one that is accessible from a left turn. Then the second one can be accessed from a left or right turn. But this gets confusing. Sometimes there are instances where the exit refers to two or more streets that aren't even directly touched by the off-ramp. And by turning left, you get to both. So is it alphabetized?

For example, you have an exit where the name change occurs exactly at the off-ramp. This is pretty simple. Left turns put you on the first street listed, right turns put you on the second street listed. That makes sense to me. But sometimes you have instances where the off-ramp leads to a street that isn't listed at all on the guide sign. I guess if that street itself isn't significant, it will be left off. But how does that get determined?


pianocello

I think the short answer is "it depends", and the more I think about it, DOTs don't seem to be very consistent with this, even with themselves sometimes.

The examples of this I'm most familiar with are along I-74 in Iowa. Since the interstate is right on the boundary between Davenport and Bettendorf, Exits 2 and 3 serve streets that change names right at I-74 (or at least close enough to justify including both names on BGS). In both cases, the eastern street name is listed before the western street name in both directions.

There are a handful of cases I'm aware of in which the freeway crosses diagonally near enough to an intersection to call out both streets. In Kalamazoo, MI on I-94, there are two examples where the street that the ramp hits first is given top billing.
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ran4sh

#2
The MUTCD says nothing about street order for "BGS" guide signs on freeways, but for guide signs (and road name plaques for warning signs) found on conventional roads, multiple cross roads should be listed in the geographic order reached (e.g. south to north on a northbound road) and the same cross road with different names left and right should be listed with the left-turn name above the right-turn name.

The only MUTCD guidance for freeway "BGS" guide signs is that for a cloverleaf (or similar interchange type with 2 exit ramps, 1 for each direction of the same cross road) the name reached with the first ramp should be listed first, which would generally be the one on the right.

Because of the lack of MUTCD guidance otherwise, different states handle it differently.

Quote from: Quillz on September 16, 2022, 05:13:32 PM
Sometimes there are instances where the exit refers to two or more streets that aren't even directly touched by the off-ramp.

Because it was determined that most traffic is going to the listed road, so they omitted the one directly at the off-ramp to reduce confusion.

And in a grid street network, if an exit leads directly to a road that's parallel with the freeway, sometimes that road name will be omitted because some drivers get confused by it (destinations on that road would actually be accessed with different exits depending on which one is closest), so instead a perpendicular road name is used even if the ramps don't directly touch it.

Edit: Considering you're from California, I think one of the issues is that if an upgraded interchange is constructed with the ramps in different configuration, but still serving the same road, and the upgrade was done before the exit numbering program, then that would be one reason for the signs to still have the same street name. Because California's excuse for not having exit numbers is that exits would be identified to the public by name, in the absence of numbers. And in that case changing a name that had been used for a long time would definitely cause confusion.
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hotdogPi

Why would the left turn street be listed first? I would expect the right turn street to be first as if there were separate exits for each direction.
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Flint1979

Here the ramp basically turns into Davenport Avenue and Michigan crosses Davenport after you make your first movement which is either a right turn to get to NB Michigan or go straight and get on Davenport. Davenport and State are one way streets here and also part of M-58.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.438888,-83.9467223,3a,75y,296.26h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC5Jyq2WLpjAHJzrRBw1dMQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Dirt Roads

West Virginia has some interesting entries here:

I-64 Exit 54 is marked as US-60 to WV-601 (MacCorkle Avenue/Jefferson Road) in both directions.  Jefferson Road ends at US-60 in the middle of the interchange.  Going eastbound, you need to make a right turn onto US-60 and then another right turn onto Jefferson Road (WV-601).  Going westbound, you make two left turns instead.  Technically, you never access MacCorkle Avenue to make this manuever since US-60 is on a short bypassed alignment and the MacCorkle Avenue addresses are still on the old street.

I-64 Exit 58C is marked as US-60 (Lee Street/Washington Street//Civic Center) and actually three (3) off-ramps.  Lee Street and Washington Street are the one-way pair for US-60 here on the West Side and crossing twin bridges over the Elk River into Downtown Charleston.  Going eastbound on I-64, the exit is parallel to Pennsylvania Avenue (which already became US-119 northbound, which you don't actually get on) and you turn right across northbound Pennsylvania Avenue onto Lee Street (US-60 eastbound).  The off-ramp merges with Pennsylvania Avenue (US-119 northbound) after Lee Street then makes an immediate left turn onto Washington Street West (US-60 westbound).  Westbound on I-64 after the split, you exit and turn right for Washington Street West and later left for Lee Street.  There also an exit off of the mainline through movement from I-77 southbound to I-64 westbound that exits inside of the split.  If I recall correctly, it is also signed for Bigley Avenue (which is US-119 southbound, which is not marked as part of this "other" Exit 58C).  For this one, you also turn right for Washington Street West and later left for Lee Street at the same intersections.  As you can imagine, there are a bunch of parallel ramps and streets that get separate signal phases at each of these intersections.

Nearby, I-77 Exit 100 is marked as Leon Sullivan Way/Capitol Street.  No turns here, just simply exit and you merge onto Leon Sullivan Way.  Originally, Leon Sullivan Way changed into Capitol Street (named for the location of the old temporary "Pasteboard Capitol", which burned in 1927 before the "new capitol building" was ready.  Looks like the old Capitol Street has now been renamed as Leon Sullivan Way as well, but the exit still lists "Capitol Street", which is what the locals still call it.

I-81 Exit 14 in Martinsburg is marked as Dry Run Road/Tennessee Avenue.  You exit onto Dry Run Road and North Tennessee Avenue ends in the southeast quadrant beside the interchange.  Going northbound on I-81, you turn right onto Dry Run and then right onto North Tennessee.  Going southbound on I-81, you make a left onto Dry Run then cross I-81 and make the same right onto North Tennessee.  I'm pretty sure that this one is signed the same both northbound and southbound on I-81.

It's not in West Virginia, but Ohio I-470 Exit 1 in East St. Clairsville is marked as Banfield Road/Mall Road.  It's a westbound-only exit that is located on the on-ramp to I-70 westbound.  After a long off-ramp, it ends at Banfield Road (both directions).  To get to St. Clairsville Mall, you turn left onto Banfield then go past the mall and then turn right back towards I-70 onto Mall Road (you would turn left here to stay on Banfield).  Needless to say, there's also Ohio I-70 Exit 218 which is marked opposite as Mall Road/Banfield Road.  Going eastbound on I-70, the pear-shaped cloverleaf offramp ends at Mall Road (both ways).  To get to Banfield Road, you turn left and eventually Mall Road turns into Banfield southbound (turn left here for Banfield northbound).  You can also to US-40 (National Road) both ways off of Mall Road.  Going westbound on I-70, the other pear-shaped cloverleaf offramp also ends at Mall Road.  This time, you would turn right on Mall Road, which crosses under I-70 and the same as before eventually Mall Road turns into Banfield southbound.  And again, you can access US-40 (National Road) both ways off of Mall Road.  It's been years since I've been through here (although I used to do this regularly), so I have no idea whether the BGS are signed the same in both directions.  By the way, if you had stayed on the I-470 ramp to I-70 westbound, you are lined up better for Ohio I-70 Exit 218 than you are on I-70 itself, which has to weave in with the I-470 traffic.

kphoger

Quote from: 1 on September 16, 2022, 08:05:08 PM
Why would the left turn street be listed first?

I don't understand that assertion either.
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roadman65

In Portland, OR I-84 has an exit signed for a specific street, but the exit ramp itself is the street not where the ramp leads to.

https://goo.gl/maps/fMfAAbFX9nxfembH6
It's signed 43rd despite going to Halsey.
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Dirt Roads

Quote from: 1 on September 16, 2022, 08:05:08 PM
Why would the left turn street be listed first?

Quote from: kphoger on September 17, 2022, 10:31:39 AM
I don't understand that assertion either.

This makes sense from the point-of-view of the usually priorities for blue services/attractions signs.  Most states seem to post the services that require a left turn first (or leftmost) on the off-signs ramp signs and the services that require a right turn last (or rightmost).  So using the same logic, for any exit where a street has different names on each side of the freeway, the leftmost (or first listed) street name should be the one for turning left and the rightmost (or last listed) should be the one for turning right.  With that logic, when coming from the other direction those streets should be reversed.

Example:  On I-77 in Charlotte, Exit 12 is for Lasalle Street/Atando Street.  No reason you couldn't put both of those streetnames on one line.  The street on your left should be posted on the left side of the BGS.  Using this logic, you get:

Northbound:  Exit 12 - Lasalle Street | Atando Street
Southbound:  Exit 12 - Atando Street | Lasalle Street

Then if you need to switch this over to a narrow sign, you get:

Northbound:     Exit 12
                  Lasalle Street
                  Atando Street

Southbound:     Exit 12
                  Atando Street
                  Lasalle Street

If I recall correctly, these are actually signed the same in both directions.

achilles765

Here in Texas it's a little different than many other places in that our frontage road system allows for most exists in a city or larger town to access multiple cross streets. Generally the frontage roads have addresses that are named for the freeway so they aren't listed on exit signs, but when the frontage road is the exit, which happens sometimes, the exit sign just says "frontage road."  
But when it's an exit for multiple cross streets, or a cross street that changes names at the freeway, it's listed from left to right. And then in the order that the streets are encountered after exiting.

An example: chimney rock road becomes Wirt rd at interstate 10. Antoine Drive behind just south of interstate 10 about .25 miles east of that. The exit signs all read:
Wirt Rd
Chimney Rock Rd
Antoine Dr

Then there are the two diagonal freeways: The southwest freeway (interstate 69/US 59) and US 290. For those, there is a north-south and an east-west cross street close enough that each exit serves both. This is more noticeable and pronounced on US 290.
290 exits include:
Magnum Road
Dacoma Street

Tidwell Rd
Hollister Rd


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TheHighwayMan3561

What about when the exit services two entirely different cross streets (like I-494 at Portland Ave/12th Ave in Bloomington, MN)? I would assume the first street encountered is on top, with the second street encountered on the bottom.
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