Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[sprjus4]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

I-69 was a new location highway.

Not entirely. Bloomington as an example.

I believe the discussion of reducing the median from 84 to 60 ft was in regards to the new location segment, not the upgrade.

[SW Indiana]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

Edit- Updated link: www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

[CtrlAltDel]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi1v-iGrJH2AhV7l3IEHdEHAkcQFnoECAIQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltindiana.org%2Fdocs%2FStaged%2520HMA%2520for%2520I-69.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2Lq1oA-BTo0ssddOm25fna

There's no need to give Google your data here, just use:

www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

[SW Indiana]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi1v-iGrJH2AhV7l3IEHdEHAkcQFnoECAIQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltindiana.org%2Fdocs%2FStaged%2520HMA%2520for%2520I-69.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2Lq1oA-BTo0ssddOm25fna

There's no need to give Google your data here, just use:

www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

Thanks. I'm not too computer savy lol.

[edwaleni]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi1v-iGrJH2AhV7l3IEHdEHAkcQFnoECAIQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltindiana.org%2Fdocs%2FStaged%2520HMA%2520for%2520I-69.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2Lq1oA-BTo0ssddOm25fna

There's no need to give Google your data here, just use:

www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

Thanks. I'm not too computer savy lol.

Thank you for this document link. Very educational.

So I assume each of the recommendations were accepted?

This paper describes cost saving strategies for design of an asphalt pavement.
These strategies have been selected to optimize the pavement design to the conditions of
I-69 without reducing the expected pavement performance.
     - Staged construction $700,000 per mile
     - Subgrade treatment $500,000 per mile
     - Inside shoulder cross section $109,000 per mile
     - Thinner inside driving lane $125,000 per mile
The total available cost savings is not just the sum of the above suggestions, but a total
cost saving of $1,000,000 should be achievable.
Since the total expected pavement cost for an asphalt pavement is $1,900,000 per mile
this represents more than a 50% saving in pavement cost.

[ITB]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

Edit- Updated link: www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

I have doubts any of the proposed cost saving measures were implemented, other than the median reduction. To their credit, the plan for the savings was creative and inventive and may have worked. But the "staged construction" idea was complex, basically proposing to build an interstate half way and then 15 years later to return and bring it up full standards. Moreover, tinkering with the subgrade would have been risky and, perhaps, very expensive to redo. The suggestion to construct the left passing lane with less asphalt seemed more reasonable, but it's doubtful the FHWA would have gone along and allowed the road to be signed an interstate.

The proposed cost saving plan appeared to cover the entire route, from Evansville to Indianapolis. Most of the savings proposed involved ways to use less asphalt. However, when construction actually moved forward large segments of Sections 1, 2 and 3 were paved with concrete, indicating the proposed asphalt savings had been set aside. Sections 4, 5, and 6, were not, and are not being built, to lower standards in any way.

Edit: Fixed typo

[silverback1065]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

Edit- Updated link: www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

I have doubts any of the proposed cost saving measures were implemented, other than the median reduction. To their credit, the plan for the savings was creative and inventive and may have worked. But the "staged construction" idea was complex, basically proposing to build an interstate half way and then 15 years later to return and bring it up full standards. Moreover, tinkering with the subgrade would have been risky and, perhaps, very expensive to redo. The suggestion to construct the left passing lane with less asphalt seemed more reasonable, but it's doubtful the FHWA would have gone along and allowed the road to be signed an interstate.

The proposed cost saving plan appeared to cover the entire route, from Evansville to Indianapolis. Most of the savings proposed involved ways to use less asphalt. However, when construction actually moved forward large segments of Sections 1, 2 and 3 were paved with concrete, indicating the proposed asphalt savings had been set aside. Sections 4, 5, and 6, were not, and are not being built, to lower standards in any way.

Edit: Fixed typo

man if they didnt build this to interstate standards, they'd never finish it! i bet the 0 rest stops has something to do with cost savings.

[edwaleni]

They also reduced the pavement thickness in certain areas and narrowed the median width from 84 feet to 60 feet for the same reason.

Narrowing the median reduces ROW costs, especially when upgrading a former urban arterial, but where did you pick up the pavement thickness variations and the reason?

Edit- Updated link: www.asphaltindiana.org/docs/Staged%20HMA%20for%20I-69.pdf

I have doubts any of the proposed cost saving measures were implemented, other than the median reduction. To their credit, the plan for the savings was creative and inventive and may have worked. But the "staged construction" idea was complex, basically proposing to build an interstate half way and then 15 years later to return and bring it up full standards. Moreover, tinkering with the subgrade would have been risky and, perhaps, very expensive to redo. The suggestion to construct the left passing lane with less asphalt seemed more reasonable, but it's doubtful the FHWA would have gone along and allowed the road to be signed an interstate.

The proposed cost saving plan appeared to cover the entire route, from Evansville to Indianapolis. Most of the savings proposed involved ways to use less asphalt. However, when construction actually moved forward large segments of Sections 1, 2 and 3 were paved with concrete, indicating the proposed asphalt savings had been set aside. Sections 4, 5, and 6, were not, and are not being built, to lower standards in any way.

Edit: Fixed typo

This line in the report is the basis of my problem:

These strategies have been selected to optimize the pavement design to the conditions of I-69 without reducing the expected pavement performance.

If this was "permissible" and provided the same benefit as a fully built highway, then ALL roads would be bid (and built) like this, which they are not!

[ITB]

On the I-69 Finish Line website, I came across a set of maps that depict the surface treatments of Section 6 from Martinsville to I-465:


Courtesy I-69 Finish Line
As expected, almost all of I-465 will be concrete, except for a small segment west of Mann Road. From the Epler Ave interchange through the Country Road interchange to Fairview Road, asphalt will be utilized.


Courtesy I-69 Finish Line
Concrete is the material of choice from Fairview Road to the Morgan/Johnson County line.


Courtesy I-69 Finish Line
From the Morgan/Johnson County line to just north of the city of Martinsville, asphalt was used.


Courtesy I-69 Finish Line
In Martinsville, the material of choice was concrete, with a small asphalt segment near the State Road 252 interchange.

[seicer]

Curious choice around Martinsville. Is the roadway near the IN 252 interchange being completed on a different contract?

[andy]

Curious choice around Martinsville. Is the roadway near the IN 252 interchange being completed on a different contract?

That area has a lot of fill, including foam blocks. It can be expected to settle for a while, hence the more flexible asphalt.

[bmeiser]

Really? Black and dark blue lines on those maps? I can barely tell the difference. I can't imagine trying to tell the difference if I had vision issues.

[Georgia]

I mean, the contrast is fairly great but I suppose if you looking for nits to pick...

[silverback1065]

INDOT has a rule where if a projects pavement area exceeds  I believe the exact number is 15K Square Yards, it has to be bid as concrete and asphalt. Site conditions may require asphalt regardless, like at the 252 interchange area. I personally like concrete more  fun to drive on!

[ITB]

Here's a batch of recent pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, February 27, 2022, unless otherwise noted.


The pilings and center bent of the future Myra Lane overpass in Morgan County; looking south. In the deep background is the Teeters Road overpass, also under construction. Until the Myra Lane overpass completes — and that looks to be four to six months from now — the temporary driveway for First United Methodist Church off the northbound lanes of State Road 37 will remain in use. Only after the Myra overpass completes and the driveway sealed off will State Road 37 be signed I-69, first up to Henderson Ford Road, and later to the State Road 144 interchange, when that completes in the fall of 2022.


Closer look, more clearly showing the Teeters Road overpass. On the right is a new frontage road, an extension of Morgan Street.


The eastern abutment and center bent rebar cages of the future overpass that will carry State Road 144 over I-69 in Johnson County; looking east. In the foreground, the pile driving rigging, which will be used to drive the piles for the western abutment.


Closer look. To stabilize the embankment, sheet piles have been driven to form a retaining wall (foreground), as construction commences on the overpass's western abutment.


The SR 37/SR 144 intersection; looking southeast.


Recently completed frontage, or local access, road, an extension of Old State Road 37 just north of the SR 37/SR 144 intersection in Johnson County; looking north from near the former SR 37/Stones Crossing Road intersection. In this vicinity, the northbound lanes of SR 37 are closed off and all traffic is using southbound roadway pavement.


The former State Road 37/Stones Crossing Road crossing, now sealed off; looking east.


The SR 37/County Line Road intersection at the border between Johnson and Marion counties; looking southeast. This area is now moderate-dense suburban and the amount of traffic reflects that.


The bridge that will carry southbound I-69 over County Line Road in Marion County; looking east.


The western roundabout at the future County Line Road interchange; looking southeast. The bridge pictured above is to the left, out of the frame.


The bridges that will carry southbound I-69 over Pleasant Run Creek (foreground) and Wicker Road (background) in Marion County; looking north from near the bridge over County Line Road.


Closer look. On the Wicker Road bridge, a deck finisher is positioned, meaning the deck pour is soon to occur when weather permits.


Another perspective; looking north. On the left is the future southbound exit ramp to County Line Road.


The bridge that will carry southbound I-69 over Wicker Road in Marion County; looking east.


Looking north over the top of a water truck from near the bridge over Wicker Road. In the background, the smokestacks of IPL's Harding Street Generating Station.


The eastern roundabout at the future County Line Road interchange; looking east.


State Road 37; looking northeast from near the future County Line Road interchange. In the vicinity, the entire roadway is being shifted about a hundred feet west from its current alignment. Here, when the southbound roadway completes, likely this year, all traffic, both northbound and southbound, will be moved to the new southbound pavement. This will allow construction to commence on the northbound roadway.

As expected, construction slowed significantly during the winter months of January and February. The ground froze as it normally does, but with the recent warmer temps is now unfrozen. That means mud. Though the pictures don't quite depict it, trust me, the ground was very soft. The number of times I had to kick and scrape mud off my boots. ITB does not like mud. Anyway, with the warmer weather on the doorstep, construction activity will rapidly ramp up. We're now less than three years away from the expected completion date of the entire project. Start those engines, it's going to be a busy 34 months.

[JREwing78]

Here's a batch of recent pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, February 27, 2022, unless otherwise noted.

Just wanted to express my appreciation for all of the photos you're posting. Brand-new interstate mileage is a rare thing to see happen nowadays.

[Ryctor2018]

Here's a batch of recent pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, February 27, 2022, unless otherwise noted.

Just wanted to express my appreciation for all of the photos you're posting. Brand-new interstate mileage is a rare thing to see happen nowadays.

I agree. Thanks ITB. I believe I-69 in Indiana, the soon-to-be I-490 in my area of Chicago, CC-215(future I-215) in Vegas, I-2, I-49 and the Interstates in N.Car. That's all I can think of for now.

P.S. The sections of I-69 in Texas as well.

[ilpt4u]

Here's a batch of recent pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, February 27, 2022, unless otherwise noted.

Just wanted to express my appreciation for all of the photos you're posting. Brand-new interstate mileage is a rare thing to see happen nowadays.

I agree. Thanks ITB. I believe I-69 in Indiana, the soon-to-be I-490 in my area of Chicago, CC-215(future I-215) in Vegas, I-2, I-49 and the Interstates in N.Car. That's all I can think of for now.

P.S. The sections of I-69 in Texas as well.

I-11 will continue to grow in Arizona and Nevada. How soon, remains to be seen

I-69 is being slowly built out in Tennessee as well. Key emphasis: Slowly. Tennessee and Kentucky also have to work together to come up with a solution for Fulton KY/South Fulton TN for I-69

[Sapphuby]

Here's a batch of recent pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, February 27, 2022, unless otherwise noted.

Just wanted to express my appreciation for all of the photos you're posting. Brand-new interstate mileage is a rare thing to see happen nowadays.

I agree. Thanks ITB. I believe I-69 in Indiana, the soon-to-be I-490 in my area of Chicago, CC-215(future I-215) in Vegas, I-2, I-49 and the Interstates in N.Car. That's all I can think of for now.

P.S. The sections of I-69 in Texas as well.

I-11 will continue to grow in Arizona and Nevada. How soon, remains to be seen

I-69 is being slowly built out in Tennessee as well. Key emphasis: Slowly. Tennessee and Kentucky also have to work together to come up with a solution for Fulton KY/South Fulton TN for I-69

I can only see one spot of I-69 currently under construction and/or planned to be built very soon and that's the Union City-Troy bypass. Otherwise, there's just not much to expect out of I-69 until probably by 2035. I am however eyeing the I-69 progress in Indiana. Wonder how they're going to carve through the lower metro... I'm guessing it's just an upgrade of the current IN 37 to freeway grade and tearing apart the I-465 interchange, instead of completely new mileage, since I have no knowledge of it. Unless INDOT has something else in plan, which then please share that with me, I would very much appreciate it!

[mukade]

Wonder how they're going to carve through the lower metro... I'm guessing it's just an upgrade of the current IN 37 to freeway grade and tearing apart the I-465 interchange, instead of completely new mileage, since I have no knowledge of it. Unless INDOT has something else in plan, which then please share that with me, I would very much appreciate it!

Scroll up a little and look at the pictures and maps in this thread. I-69 construction is well underway up to I-465 and set to open in 2024.

The new I-69/I-465 interchange will be about a mile west of the SR 37 (Harding St.) interchange.

[Thegeet]

Do you think in a half century they would add a third "downtown"  interstate on the left side of Indianapolis near Lucas Oil Stadium?

[abqtraveler]

Here's a batch of recent pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, February 27, 2022, unless otherwise noted.

Just wanted to express my appreciation for all of the photos you're posting. Brand-new interstate mileage is a rare thing to see happen nowadays.

I agree. Thanks ITB. I believe I-69 in Indiana, the soon-to-be I-490 in my area of Chicago, CC-215(future I-215) in Vegas, I-2, I-49 and the Interstates in N.Car. That's all I can think of for now.

P.S. The sections of I-69 in Texas as well.

I-11 will continue to grow in Arizona and Nevada. How soon, remains to be seen

I-69 is being slowly built out in Tennessee as well. Key emphasis: Slowly. Tennessee and Kentucky also have to work together to come up with a solution for Fulton KY/South Fulton TN for I-69

I can only see one spot of I-69 currently under construction and/or planned to be built very soon and that's the Union City-Troy bypass. Otherwise, there's just not much to expect out of I-69 until probably by 2035. I am however eyeing the I-69 progress in Indiana. Wonder how they're going to carve through the lower metro... I'm guessing it's just an upgrade of the current IN 37 to freeway grade and tearing apart the I-465 interchange, instead of completely new mileage, since I have no knowledge of it. Unless INDOT has something else in plan, which then please share that with me, I would very much appreciate it!

The next major piece of I-69 that will move to construction will be the bridge over the Ohio River. Kentucky just awarded a construction contract for the first phase of this project that will build the southern approach to the bridge from the current northern end of I-69 just outside of Henderson to US-60 east of town. KYTC and INDOT plan to award the contract for Phase 2 (the Ohio River Bridge and adjacent roadways) in 2027 with opening planned for 2031.

[jnewkirk77]

Do you think in a half century they would add a third "downtown"  interstate on the left side of Indianapolis near Lucas Oil Stadium?

No way.

[mukade]

Do you think in a half century they would add a third "downtown"  interstate on the left side of Indianapolis near Lucas Oil Stadium?

No way.

Certainly not from I-69 on the south side. The quarries there would make it impossible - plus there has been no demand for it.

As the highest growth in the area has been in Hamilton County, extending the US 31 freeway into downtown would serve the greatest need, but even that has never been discussed AFAIK.

[edwaleni]

Do you think in a half century they would add a third "downtown"  interstate on the left side of Indianapolis near Lucas Oil Stadium?

No way.

Certainly not from I-69 on the south side. The quarries there would make it impossible - plus there has been no demand for it.

As the highest growth in the area has been in Hamilton County, extending the US 31 freeway into downtown would serve the greatest need, but even that has never been discussed AFAIK.

I doubt it. You could ask the same question about I-74 on the west side. INDOT even owns the land to stub I-74 right into Crawfordsville Road but didn't. (why, I am not sure)

All the growth in the Indy MSA is north.