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Author Topic: West Virginia circle shield  (Read 31648 times)

roadman65

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2021, 03:30:09 PM »

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2021, 03:45:08 PM »

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formulanone

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2021, 04:14:12 PM »

They even have a 1/1 on US 11:



This on I64 might give a few people the slip, but they named the road.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 04:17:14 PM by formulanone »
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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2021, 08:06:22 PM »

This on I64 might give a few people the slip, but they named the road.



This one is different.  We lived off of the far end of Roxalana Road back in the early 1960s.  Unlike the other examples here, the designation 25/25 is not 25th spur.  Before I-64 was completed to Dunbar, Roxalana Road was signed as Alt WV-25.  Being that WV-25 was the "main road" out of North Charleston and old US-35 (now WV-62) was the "back road", Roxalana was a good bypass to avoid the extra congestion in Dunbar coming off the (then) Dunbar Toll Bridge.  In a different thread, there is a number of posts about traffic problems on I-64.  But before I-64 was completed to South Charleston, the worst of the traffic congestion from the west was on both Dunbar Avenue (WV-25) and Roxalana before hitting the four-lane Seventh Avenue.

In a nutshell, Kanawha CR-25/25 is a nod to its former state route numbering.
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Bitmapped

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2021, 10:29:28 PM »

This on I64 might give a few people the slip, but they named the road.



This one is different.  We lived off of the far end of Roxalana Road back in the early 1960s.  Unlike the other examples here, the designation 25/25 is not 25th spur.  Before I-64 was completed to Dunbar, Roxalana Road was signed as Alt WV-25.  Being that WV-25 was the "main road" out of North Charleston and old US-35 (now WV-62) was the "back road", Roxalana was a good bypass to avoid the extra congestion in Dunbar coming off the (then) Dunbar Toll Bridge.  In a different thread, there is a number of posts about traffic problems on I-64.  But before I-64 was completed to South Charleston, the worst of the traffic congestion from the west was on both Dunbar Avenue (WV-25) and Roxalana before hitting the four-lane Seventh Avenue.

In a nutshell, Kanawha CR-25/25 is a nod to its former state route numbering.

WVDOH has done the same thing with parts of old WV 73. CR 73 (no fraction) is used in Monongalia and Marion counties between Morgantown and Fairmont. CR 73/73 was used on two other sections south of White Hall (Marion/Taylor/Harrison Counties) and east of Coopers Rock (Monongalia/Preston Counties) to avoid conflicting with the existing CR 73 sections.

When county routes are renumbered to avoid conflicts, DOH normally just seems to use the next available fraction. CR 68 in Monongalia County became CR 68/7 to avoid conflicting with I-68. CR 33 in Randolph County was changed to a child of a different route, CR 37/8, altogether to avoid conflicting with US 33.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 10:34:47 PM by Bitmapped »
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formulanone

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2021, 06:29:44 AM »

This on I64 might give a few people the slip, but they named the road.



This one is different.  We lived off of the far end of Roxalana Road back in the early 1960s.  Unlike the other examples here, the designation 25/25 is not 25th spur.  Before I-64 was completed to Dunbar, Roxalana Road was signed as Alt WV-25.  Being that WV-25 was the "main road" out of North Charleston and old US-35 (now WV-62) was the "back road", Roxalana was a good bypass to avoid the extra congestion in Dunbar coming off the (then) Dunbar Toll Bridge.  In a different thread, there is a number of posts about traffic problems on I-64.  But before I-64 was completed to South Charleston, the worst of the traffic congestion from the west was on both Dunbar Avenue (WV-25) and Roxalana before hitting the four-lane Seventh Avenue.

In a nutshell, Kanawha CR-25/25 is a nod to its former state route numbering.

WVDOH has done the same thing with parts of old WV 73. CR 73 (no fraction) is used in Monongalia and Marion counties between Morgantown and Fairmont. CR 73/73 was used on two other sections south of White Hall (Marion/Taylor/Harrison Counties) and east of Coopers Rock (Monongalia/Preston Counties) to avoid conflicting with the existing CR 73 sections.

When county routes are renumbered to avoid conflicts, DOH normally just seems to use the next available fraction. CR 68 in Monongalia County became CR 68/7 to avoid conflicting with I-68. CR 33 in Randolph County was changed to a child of a different route, CR 37/8, altogether to avoid conflicting with US 33.

Interesting that they use same-number fractions for old alignments or to resolve number conflicts.
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Dirt Roads

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2021, 08:14:22 AM »

Interesting that they use same-number fractions for old alignments or to resolve number conflicts.

No, the term "fractional" is something that we old Roadgeeks coined back in the MTR days.  West Virginia simply uses a "hyphenated" method of numbering that is displayed this way.  The top number is the same as the "main road", and the bottom number is the number for the "side road". 

I grew up on CR-33/3, the third branch off the "main road" CR-33.  Back then, all of the roads were mostly dirt roads.  You didn't need stop signs because the "side roads" were marked.  Shortly after the DOH paved my road, there was a terrible accident where a driver from Ohio ran through the intersection near my house because there was no stop sign (nor anyplace safe to put one).  Teays Valley Hardware lost it's side parking lot and permanent closed its side door on the lower level to customers in order to allow a stop sign to be erected.  This is now across from the end of the relocated US-35.
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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2021, 08:29:55 AM »

Other than same-numbered routes like 25/25, what high-numbered WV fractions can simplify to low numbers, such as (example; probably doesn't exist) 43/86?

(Yes, I know they're not actually fractions.)

One of NE2's quotes in the "route numbers that are 4" thread:


The reciprocal of bike is not 4.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 08:33:31 AM by 1 »
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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2021, 10:49:57 AM »

Interesting that they use same-number fractions for old alignments or to resolve number conflicts.

Interesting that putting two 25s is supposed to make people not think it's 25...
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Bitmapped

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2021, 12:36:03 PM »

Interesting that they use same-number fractions for old alignments or to resolve number conflicts.

Interesting that putting two 25s is supposed to make people not think it's 25...

County route numbers aren't really used for navigation. They're posted, but mostly just used for DOH's internal purposes. It's not uncommon for numbers to change seemingly randomly along a corridor because of road abandonments and realignments since the numbers were initially designated in 1933.
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hbelkins

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2021, 03:58:17 PM »

Interesting that they use same-number fractions for old alignments or to resolve number conflicts.

Interesting that putting two 25s is supposed to make people not think it's 25...

The Dunbar exit on the opposite side of the road, on eastbound I-64, is for WV 25. The eastbound ramp exits onto WV 25; the westbound ramp onto CR 25/25.

County route numbers aren't really used for navigation. They're posted, but mostly just used for DOH's internal purposes. It's not uncommon for numbers to change seemingly randomly along a corridor because of road abandonments and realignments since the numbers were initially designated in 1933.

Indeed. The road to my grandfather's home area is CR 7 in Lincoln County. Somewhere along the line, near the Sias community where the Elkinses lived, CR 7 turns off the through route, which continues as CR 46. There's no indication the route changes numbers.

https://goo.gl/maps/85Un1bagNriHEQmZ8
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 04:00:30 PM by hbelkins »
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Dirt Roads

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2021, 11:08:09 PM »

County route numbers aren't really used for navigation. They're posted, but mostly just used for DOH's internal purposes. It's not uncommon for numbers to change seemingly randomly along a corridor because of road abandonments and realignments since the numbers were initially designated in 1933.

My nephew lives on a cross-county road that changes name three times.  But the road is numbered as follows:  CR-34/8, CR-5/3, CR-11, back to CR-34/8, CR-7/1, CR-7 and finally CR-10 (and IIRC the map is missing something).  Other branches off this road share the old name.  In one location, the "main road" does a TOTSO right and later TOTSO left but still maintains its name and number.  It took several times of follow-the-leader to get the hang of it.

He also lives on a shared driveway that also has a route number assigned, and his driveway has the same route number which includes the cowpath up to his barn and beyond.  There are two farm gates and two permanent barbed wire fencelines across this "route".  There is no evidence of this road on the back side of his property.  Old maps actually show this road going up into the next county, even though at least 2 miles of the road was abandoned by 1930 or so. 
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Scott5114

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2021, 12:07:21 AM »

How do you pronounce these? Would "902/81" be "902 over 81", "902 dash 81", "nine-oh-two-eighty-one", or what?
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Dirt Roads

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2021, 08:40:48 AM »

How do you pronounce these? Would "902/81" be "902 over 81", "902 dash 81", "nine-oh-two-eighty-one", or what?

Yep.  We always said "902 over 81".  Except the numbering wouldn't get so extreme.  You'll get some big numbers in the "numerator" for branches off 3dUS routes (US-119, US-219, US-220, US-250, US-340 and US-522), plus high-numbered routes carried over from adjacent states (like off of LSR-857 in the Morgantown area).  For the "denominator" there are typically less than 10 branches to any "main road", unless it crosses the entire county.  On the other hand, there are often many branches and loops off of U.S. routes and state routes.  You might have only four branches off of CR-1 in a particular county (CR-1/1 thru CR-1/4), it might have 48 branches off an U.S. route that runs across its entire length (CR-60/1 thru CR-60/49).  Plus any branches or loops numbered after something else.  But like Bitmapped said, those numbers are not used for navigation; instead they are used by the DOH for accounting purposes.

[The terms "numerator" and "denominator" were coined by Roadgeeks back in the MTR days].
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Dirt Roads

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2021, 08:52:02 AM »

Oh, oh, oh.  And before the days of street names and E-911, many of these back roads had "farmer names" such as: "left at the old Turner place", "the road over to Exchange", "the right fork up the holler", etc.  Most of these got different names after E-911, which confused all of the locals.
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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2021, 09:31:01 AM »

I've never heard anyone use the fractions in any conversation - always the road names. The state does a pretty good job with signing those at least.

kphoger

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2021, 10:56:32 AM »

Oh, oh, oh.  And before the days of street names and E-911, many of these back roads had "farmer names" such as: "left at the old Turner place", "the road over to Exchange", "the right fork up the holler", etc.  Most of these got different names after E-911, which confused all of the locals.

:)  I remember getting directions to a friend's farm back in western Kansas, and part of the directions was to turn on "the last road before seven-mile hill".  And I knew exactly which road that was.  Yeah, it has a blue pentagon with a number on it, but who pays attention to things like that!
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seicer

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2021, 11:07:55 AM »

I should amend my post - a lot use road names. But just as frequently you'll hear "turn left by the old Pizza Hut" (especially in Pittsburgh) or "go down the creek a bit and turn left at the gravel road" (more frequent in the hills).

These sorts of directions even made it to 99% Invisible, my favorite podcast for all things nerd: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/u-t-b-a-p-h/ (check out the audio at around 2:00)

SP Cook

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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2021, 11:08:18 AM »

I've never heard anyone use the fractions in any conversation - always the road names. The state does a pretty good job with signing those at least.

This is correct.  The only people that will EVER say the number of such a route (and they would say it like "9 over 6") would be DOH employees.  Private individuals, and even the ambulance services and cops, will always use the name of the road. 
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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2021, 11:50:54 AM »

Oh, oh, oh.  And before the days of street names and E-911, many of these back roads had "farmer names" such as: "left at the old Turner place", "the road over to Exchange", "the right fork up the holler", etc.  Most of these got different names after E-911, which confused all of the locals.

:)  I remember getting directions to a friend's farm back in western Kansas, and part of the directions was to turn on "the last road before seven-mile hill".  And I knew exactly which road that was.  Yeah, it has a blue pentagon with a number on it, but who pays attention to things like that!

My wife (who is from North Carolina) laughs at me.  I always gave simple instructions to get to our place, but once we had a friend who went straight through a TOTSO intersection where the road straight ahead is unpaved.  Since then, I've gone back to the old West Virginia phrase "stay on the paved road".
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Re: West Virginia circle shield
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2021, 04:22:56 PM »

They even have a 1/1 on US 11:


I thought that was an aspirin marker or something....... :-D :-D :-D
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