Baltimore

[Alex]

Went through a couple of fold maps from the 60s and drew in lines for many of the canceled freeways throughout Baltimore and vicinity:



[click for larger .png]
Light gray shields are for unsigned routes or dead routes on the freeways, dark gray are for decommissioned U.S. highways.

Any insight on some of these lines would be helpful. Like what is the outer outer beltway through eastern Baltimore County? Was the Jones Falls Expressway slated to take I-83 without it having to share an alignment with I-695? Where was MD-10 supposed to go? The line on the one map I have was drawn before either MD 10 or I-695 were built, so the MD-10 dashed line there was abitrary and showed it going to MD-171 in the city.

[froggie]

How (if at all) do you plan on delineating the wildly different proposals, which can basically be summed up as early '60s, and post-1969?  Namely with I-70's alignment (2 different proposals) and I-170's alignment (2 different proposals).

As for your map as it currently stands, it should be noted that none of the following appeared on the 1964 BMATS study:

- The separate I-83 north of I-695.  However, this was definitely on SHA's proposals later on.
- The spur off the southeast corner of the I-695 beltway, leading onto Patapsco River Neck and North Point Rd.
- The spur on Back River Neck leading towards Rocky Point Park.  Later on, a connection in this vicinity was considered for a "Northern Bay Bridge"...a decision was made to build a parallel Bay Bridge span (today's westbound 50/301) instead.
- The Outer Loop through eastern Montgomery County, between Back River Neck and US 40.  The Back River crossing was included, but as part of a loop that also included the Southeastern Expressway (today's MD 702).
- The White Marsh Freeway east of the Windlass Freeway.  An at-grade arterial was proposed east of the Windlass, but only as far as Eastern Ave/MD 150.
- The Windlass Freeway north of the White Marsh Freeway.

[Alex]

I am not sure how I want to approach the different alignments on how they relate to different years. I likely will switch them between different time frames and make separate outputs. Once the annotation is set on the main highways, it should not be too difficult.

I will label some of the alignments as I get names for them and such. Your notes below are very helpful.

How (if at all) do you plan on delineating the wildly different proposals, which can basically be summed up as early '60s, and post-1969?  Namely with I-70's alignment (2 different proposals) and I-170's alignment (2 different proposals).

As for your map as it currently stands, it should be noted that none of the following appeared on the 1964 BMATS study:

- The separate I-83 north of I-695.  However, this was definitely on SHA's proposals later on.
- The spur off the southeast corner of the I-695 beltway, leading onto Patapsco River Neck and North Point Rd.
- The spur on Back River Neck leading towards Rocky Point Park.  Later on, a connection in this vicinity was considered for a "Northern Bay Bridge"...a decision was made to build a parallel Bay Bridge span (today's westbound 50/301) instead.
- The Outer Loop through eastern Montgomery County, between Back River Neck and US 40.  The Back River crossing was included, but as part of a loop that also included the Southeastern Expressway (today's MD 702).
- The White Marsh Freeway east of the Windlass Freeway.  An at-grade arterial was proposed east of the Windlass, but only as far as Eastern Ave/MD 150.
- The Windlass Freeway north of the White Marsh Freeway.

[froggie]

You can also shoot me your shapefile and I can add the names as a field.

[MDRoads]

Any insight on some of these lines would be helpful. Like what is the outer outer beltway through eastern Baltimore County? Was the Jones Falls Expressway slated to take I-83 without it having to share an alignment with I-695? Where was MD-10 supposed to go? The line on the one map I have was drawn before either MD 10 or I-695 were built, so the MD-10 dashed line there was abitrary and showed it going to MD-171 in the city.

According to the 1975 Highway Needs Study, that northeast outer beltway was called the Gunpowder Expressway.  It ran more northerly though, up roughly along Bradshaw Rd to Kingsville then to Fork and Baldwin, ending near where MD 138 and 562 meet, at what was called the Piedmont Expressway.  It would have extended westward from the new section of MD 23 @ 165 in northern Harford Co., crossing MD 138 at Monkton, and running parallel a mile south of MD 137, reaching MD 30 right at the Baltimore/Carroll County line.   There was even a northern tier proposed, the East-West Scenic Expressway, running just below the PA line.  I have some pics of these maps in an album on the facebook page; it'll at least give you a rough idea: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=170233&id=139158172604

[Alex]

According to the 1975 Highway Needs Study, that northeast outer beltway was called the Gunpowder Expressway.  It ran more northerly though, up roughly along Bradshaw Rd to Kingsville then to Fork and Baldwin, ending near where MD 138 and 562 meet, at what was called the Piedmont Expressway.  It would have extended westward from the new section of MD 23 @ 165 in northern Harford Co., crossing MD 138 at Monkton, and running parallel a mile south of MD 137, reaching MD 30 right at the Baltimore/Carroll County line.   There was even a northern tier proposed, the East-West Scenic Expressway, running just below the PA line.  I have some pics of these maps in an album on the facebook page; it'll at least give you a rough idea: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=170233&id=139158172604

Is that the same Piedmont Expressway proposed to roughly follow the U.S. 1 and 202 corridors west and north of Philadelphia?

The question to ask, how many of these freeway proposals went from just an idea to an actual study or formal plan? That Gousha map from the early 60s I have has many marked with a thin dashed line. I have a General Drafting (same one you have pictures of on the MDRoads FB page) map that shows the southeast Baltimore area freeway networks as double dashed lines too. I would prefer to focus on the ones that "had a chance" versus ones that were just "suggestive in nature".

[MDRoads]

The question to ask, how many of these freeway proposals went from just an idea to an actual study or formal plan? That Gousha map from the early 60s I have has many marked with a thin dashed line. I have a General Drafting (same one you have pictures of on the MDRoads FB page) map that shows the southeast Baltimore area freeway networks as double dashed lines too. I would prefer to focus on the ones that "had a chance" versus ones that were just "suggestive in nature".

The ones that "had a chance" were the ones that were built later as non-freeway, at-grade facilities (MD 702, 43, US 1 Bypasses.)  The Gunpowder, East-West Scenic, and Piedmont were just abstract lines, no alignment was really nailed down. So was the Perring, except for the northern end at Bel Air, where it hooked into what became the Bel Air and Hickory Bypasses.  While the Perring was still on the plans, the Whitemarsh hooked northward toward it instead of the Beltway.

On the whole, Gousha seemed to have a lower threshold for inclusion as single dashed lines. They would have the northern extensions of US 29 and I-195, the incomplete Windlass/Patapsco sections, inner I-795, and the I-83 connector.  They also had Washington stuff proposed that no other map bothered with.

A little anecdote about the Bayway east toward the Whitemarsh... My friend's grandfather remembered getting mail from SHA about possibly having to take their neighborhood, Bauernschmidt Manor. There's still some abandoned lots on Turkey Point Rd near the high school.  It appeared by 1965, and was killed sometime before 1973.

Is that the same Piedmont Expressway proposed to roughly follow the U.S. 1 and 202 corridors west and north of Philadelphia?

No relation with anything up in PA.  This Piedmont would have ended at US 1 in Hickory, using existing MD 23.

[Alex]

Given that a lot of these freeways never really had a chance, I find it interesting that the Baltimore beltway had provisions added for several of them. The carriageway separation ahead of Exit 41 is one that did not occur to me until I started this Baltimore map.

[froggie]

While the Perring was still on the plans, the Whitemarsh hooked northward toward it instead of the Beltway.

Not on the 1964 BMATS.  This "hooking northward" must've been proposed later.

[MDRoads]

While the Perring was still on the plans, the Whitemarsh hooked northward toward it instead of the Beltway.

Not on the 1964 BMATS.  This "hooking northward" must've been proposed later.

Right... that was on the 1973 and 1975 Highway Needs maps.

[Alex]

Was Fayette Street signed as Alternate U.S. 40 at one point? The old USGS Quad shows it as such. Looking through my map collection, I was able to find one map, a 1974 General Drafting map of Baltimore, that also shows Alt. U.S. 40 on Fayette Street.

[Alex]

Looking at GSV, I found a blank guide sign for the northbound ramp to I-83 from Gay Street. What is the deal with it? Was there access from the Fallsway to that ramp at one point and it was decided to remove the contents of the sign to dissuade drivers from jumping the barrier to get to it?



My 1984 and 2002 ADC atlases for Baltimore both show Maryland 45 and 147 heading south of U.S. 1 (North Avenue). I was looking at Historicaerials.com too and their major roads overlay also showed MD-147 heading south of U.S. 1 to end at MD-2. Was this ever the case?

[NE2]

Most likely their major roads overlay comes from TIGER data.

[MDRoads]

Was Fayette Street signed as Alternate U.S. 40 at one point? The old USGS Quad shows it as such. Looking through my map collection, I was able to find one map, a 1974 General Drafting map of Baltimore, that also shows Alt. U.S. 40 on Fayette Street.

Never seen it signed as such, but the 1938 MD official shows Fayette as Alt 40.  It also shows both Old Frederick Road and Edmondson Avenue as US 40, this was in transition to Baltimore National Pike.

Looking at GSV, I found a blank guide sign for the northbound ramp to I-83 from Gay Street. What is the deal with it? Was there access from the Fallsway to that ramp at one point and it was decided to remove the contents of the sign to dissuade drivers from jumping the barrier to get to it?

My 1984 and 2002 ADC atlases for Baltimore both show Maryland 45 and 147 heading south of U.S. 1 (North Avenue). I was looking at Historicaerials.com too and their major roads overlay also showed MD-147 heading south of U.S. 1 to end at MD-2. Was this ever the case?

No official maps have shown 45 or 147 below North Avenue, including when MD 45 was still US 111. On the map, MD 45, 147 and 139 (Charles Street) all had their southern end there, and MD 2 came up through downtown to end at North Avenue.

[Henry]

I find it intriguing that there once was an outer outer loop proposed for the city. However, numbering would be a major issue, seeing that Maryland was about to run out of even-numbered I-x95 routes. Also, I-70 might've become a crosstown route following the Windlass Freeway after a concurrency with I-95 (and I-83 would not go beyond downtown), then crossing the Bay via the Southeast Freeway or perhaps an extension of the Windlass, and continuing to Dover. Just a thought that occurred to me while I was tracing out the east-west route it would take if it were to be planned that way.

[froggie]

Why would numbering be an issue?  Or, moreso, why would it need to be an Interstate?  Especially when the 1964 BMATS study had it at-grade and there were several indications that it would've become a US 29 extension.

[NE2]

Why would numbering be an issue?  Or, moreso, why would it need to be an Interstate?  Especially when the 1964 BMATS study had it at-grade and there were several indications that it would've become a US 29 extension.

Haven't you heard about the Truckee-Lake Tahoe freeway? They had bought all the land and even let some of the pre-grading contracts with 90% federal funding, but a pesky bureaucrat realized that there were no available Interstate numbers, so California had to cancel it. So it goes.

[Alps]

Why would numbering be an issue?  Or, moreso, why would it need to be an Interstate?  Especially when the 1964 BMATS study had it at-grade and there were several indications that it would've become a US 29 extension.

Haven't you heard about the Truckee-Lake Tahoe freeway? They had bought all the land and even let some of the pre-grading contracts with 90% federal funding, but a pesky bureaucrat realized that there were no available Interstate numbers, so California had to cancel it. So it goes.

That's silly. Lake Tahoe is a body of water, you can't construct a freeway into water.

[NE2]

They were going to drain the lake. NIMBYs complained but screw 'em.

[Alps]

NIMLs you mean

[NE2]

Perhaps, though NIMLs concentrate on proposals to breed giant sharks and the like.

[Alps]

Perhaps, though NIMLs concentrate on proposals to breed giant sharks and the like.

Speaking of Baltimore, let's speak of Baltimore. I got nothin'.

[Alex]

From the Is I-495 actually part of the Interstate Highway System between I-278 and I-678? thread.

This reminds me of the Balto Beltway near the FSK Bridge, which is not an Interstate despite the I-695 shields on it.

And right now, Md. 695 (signed as I-695) has gone back to its roots as a "Super-2" highway, because one of the draw spans over Curtis Creek is shut-down and the traffic is light enough to just have one lane in  each direction (admittedly with a temporary Jersey wall to prevent head-on crashes). 

When did that happen and how long will it persist?

You can see the lane reduction in action at:
http://www.chart.state.md.us/video/video.asp?feed=7101276ec47601b8004606363d235daa

[cpzilliacus]

From the Is I-495 actually part of the Interstate Highway System between I-278 and I-678? thread.

This reminds me of the Balto Beltway near the FSK Bridge, which is not an Interstate despite the I-695 shields on it.

And right now, Md. 695 (signed as I-695) has gone back to its roots as a "Super-2" highway, because one of the draw spans over Curtis Creek is shut-down and the traffic is light enough to just have one lane in  each direction (admittedly with a temporary Jersey wall to prevent head-on crashes). 

When did that happen and how long will it persist?

You can see the lane reduction in action at:
http://www.chart.state.md.us/video/video.asp?feed=7101276ec47601b8004606363d235daa

It goes back to January, 2012 (in terms of when traffic was first shifted).

See this MdTA press release from late 2011:

DRAWBRIDGE WORK ON I-695 TO RESULT IN MAJOR TRAFFIC PATTERN CHANGES

And also look at this, which shows MdTA traffic advisories from 2012 for the F.S. Key Bridge and its approaches:

Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) Traffic Advisories and Updates

[D-Dey65]

I still find it depressing that I-70, I-83, and other freeways in Central Baltimore were never completed. I've always had a different idea for I-83 in the vicinity of I-695, though. Extend the Baltimore-Harrisburg Expressway south of I-695, and run it along the south side of I-695 until it reaches the Jones Falls Expressway north of Exit 12.

Now, I think I like the original plan better.