Do you prefer driving automatics or manuals?

[J N Winkler]

But I do appreciate the marginal improvement in gas mileage and it is nice to be able to downshift to help slow down on hills or whatever.

The latter is still possible with automatics--I do it all the time in mountainous country and indeed wouldn't feel comfortable going down a hill any other way.  (I understand it's more difficult to obtain effective engine braking with CVTs, but thankfully these do not represent all of current production.)

[1995hoo]

....

I joking refer to my stick shift as an "anti-theft device".  Not that I'm actually concerned about it getting stolen, it's just funny to assume car thieves are dumb kids who can't drive stick. 

There was a report on the evening news here a few weeks ago about an incident in which car thieves were foiled by a manual transmission. It definitely happens. I call it a "millennial anti-theft device," although I suppose that's not fair to a former colleague who was born in 1990 and who herself drives a manual-shift Saab 9-3.

[JayhawkCO]

It's a skill I'm glad I have, and it gives me more options in the secondary market.

Not sure exactly what you're specifically referring to with secondary market, but I know it's pretty darn hard to sell/trade in manuals. Obviously the demand is way lower.

[kkt]

With a stick you have to replace the clutch every 75-100K miles. Just an expense I don't like to deal with, so I've driven nothing but automatics since 2013.

What?  My last car got to 120K miles without even a suggestion that the clutch might fail soon.

[kkt]

When I bought my current car, the manual was $3000 cheaper than the automatic, so manual it is.

When I bought my current car, in 2018, manuals were special order and the dealer charged about $3000 extra for special orders.

[kphoger]

When I bought my current car, the manual was $3000 cheaper than the automatic, so manual it is.

When I bought my current car, in 2018, manuals were special order and the dealer charged about $3000 extra for special orders.

When I was in high school, my dad bought a new late-1990s Toyota Camry with a stick shift (1997 or 1998, can't remember for sure).  We lived in a small town in northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to the nearest Toyota dealership, which was about an hour away in Nebraska.  The dealer said he didn't have any on the lot, that he was only allowed to keep a specific number of Camry vehicles on the lot, and therefore he wasn't allowed to have one shipped there for us.  So we asked him where the nearest one was, and then we drove to Denver to go buy it.

[kalvado]

But I do appreciate the marginal improvement in gas mileage and it is nice to be able to downshift to help slow down on hills or whatever.

The latter is still possible with automatics--I do it all the time in mountainous country and indeed wouldn't feel comfortable going down a hill any other way.  (I understand it's more difficult to obtain effective engine braking with CVTs, but thankfully these do not represent all of current production.)

My Subaru CVT pretends to be 6-step in manual switching mode, and works for braking same way as stepped transmission.
Possibly because Subaru has a chain CVT instead of pushing belt everyone else loves?

[Rothman]

But I do appreciate the marginal improvement in gas mileage and it is nice to be able to downshift to help slow down on hills or whatever.

The latter is still possible with automatics--I do it all the time in mountainous country and indeed wouldn't feel comfortable going down a hill any other way.  (I understand it's more difficult to obtain effective engine braking with CVTs, but thankfully these do not represent all of current production.)

My Subaru CVT pretends to be 6-step in manual switching mode, and works for braking same way as stepped transmission.
Possibly because Subaru has a chain CVT instead of pushing belt everyone else loves?

Meh.  My Rogue has an autostick and, although I use it, the engine braking isn't as good as on a manual.  Way too much of a coward when it thinks it'll hit too many RPM and then prevents me from shifting down.

[kkt]

But I do appreciate the marginal improvement in gas mileage and it is nice to be able to downshift to help slow down on hills or whatever.

The latter is still possible with automatics--I do it all the time in mountainous country and indeed wouldn't feel comfortable going down a hill any other way.  (I understand it's more difficult to obtain effective engine braking with CVTs, but thankfully these do not represent all of current production.)

My Subaru CVT pretends to be 6-step in manual switching mode, and works for braking same way as stepped transmission.
Possibly because Subaru has a chain CVT instead of pushing belt everyone else loves?

Meh.  My Rogue has an autostick and, although I use it, the engine braking isn't as good as on a manual.  Way too much of a coward when it thinks it'll hit too many RPM and then prevents me from shifting down.

Great, a car that thinks it knows better than the driver.

[Rothman]

But I do appreciate the marginal improvement in gas mileage and it is nice to be able to downshift to help slow down on hills or whatever.

The latter is still possible with automatics--I do it all the time in mountainous country and indeed wouldn't feel comfortable going down a hill any other way.  (I understand it's more difficult to obtain effective engine braking with CVTs, but thankfully these do not represent all of current production.)

My Subaru CVT pretends to be 6-step in manual switching mode, and works for braking same way as stepped transmission.
Possibly because Subaru has a chain CVT instead of pushing belt everyone else loves?

Meh.  My Rogue has an autostick and, although I use it, the engine braking isn't as good as on a manual.  Way too much of a coward when it thinks it'll hit too many RPM and then prevents me from shifting down.

Great, a car that thinks it knows better than the driver.

The Terminators are coming.

[vdeane]

a former colleague who was born in 1990 and who herself drives a manual-shift Saab 9-3.

Does she prefer her interstates to be of the Pythagorean variety?

[tchafe1978]

My dad taught me to drive a stick on his 1990 Ford Ranger when I still had my learner's permit. It was a struggle at first, but once I got the hang of it, there was no looking back. My first car I bought on my own was a 1991 Ford Escort with a stick. I loved driving that car. I kept it for about 6 or 7 years until my wife and I were starting our family and we outgrew it. My wife also demanded that our next car would be an auto, one that she could drive too just in case. I tried teaching her how to drive the Escort, but gave up for fear of her ruining the clutch, which I did have rebuilt once. I sold that car in 2005. I hadn't regularly driven a stick for about 15 years when in 2020 my daughter's boyfriend was having some trouble with his early 2000's Ford F150 which had a stick, and he wanted me to test drive it to see if I could tell what was going on with it. Sure enough, just like riding a bike, I was able to drive it just like I had been doing it all along. I never could figure out myself what was going on with it, it had to go to a mechanic, but it sure was fun driving a stick again! I wouldn't mind having a stick again, as it gives my left foot something to do, but at this point, autos are much easier to deal with, and when it comes time to buy another car, I wouldn't put in the effort trying to find a car with a stick again.

[kalvado]

But I do appreciate the marginal improvement in gas mileage and it is nice to be able to downshift to help slow down on hills or whatever.

The latter is still possible with automatics--I do it all the time in mountainous country and indeed wouldn't feel comfortable going down a hill any other way.  (I understand it's more difficult to obtain effective engine braking with CVTs, but thankfully these do not represent all of current production.)

My Subaru CVT pretends to be 6-step in manual switching mode, and works for braking same way as stepped transmission.
Possibly because Subaru has a chain CVT instead of pushing belt everyone else loves?

Meh.  My Rogue has an autostick and, although I use it, the engine braking isn't as good as on a manual.  Way too much of a coward when it thinks it'll hit too many RPM and then prevents me from shifting down.

Great, a car that thinks it knows better than the driver.

A car designed with clear understanding that car knows better than 99% of drivers

[RoadWarrior56]

I learned to drive a stick shift right after I got my drivers license while still in High School.  Starting in 1975, while a sophomore in college, until 2013, I drove nothing but  manual transmissions, starting with a 3-speed on the column, then four on the floor and ending up with 5-speeds on the floor.  I finally gave up my last stick shift in 2013, as my 57 year old left knee could not deal with clutches anymore.  And BTW, I loved driving a stick shift!!  But these days, they are almost impossible to find on new vehicles, in any case.

[kphoger]

But these days, they are almost impossible to find on new vehicles, in any case.

If I could have afforded it this year, I was considering getting a 2009 MazdaSpeed3.  That model was offered with stick shift only.

[frankenroad]

There are pros and cons to both.  I like driving a stick when there is ice or snow, because I feel like I have a lot more control. 
Driving a stick in stop-and-go traffic is a pain.  I have driven both off and on over the 50+ years I have been driving.

I remember in 1996, we wanted to buy a small commuter car that was a manual but also had AC.  That turned out to be a difficult combination to achieve.  However, we found a 97 Escort that fit the bill.  When I got to work on Monday, I was talking with my boss about the struggle we had finding that combo, and it turns out she and her husband had been on the same quest that weekend as well.  I don't remember what she ended up with, but it was not an Escort.  Maybe a Geo?

When my kids each got their first cars (early 2000s), they got sticks and we taught them how to drive them.  We always felt confident that their friends would not be able to "borrow" their cars.

[kphoger]

When my kids each got their first cars (early 2000s), they got sticks and we taught them how to drive them.  We always felt confident that their friends would not be able to "borrow" their cars.

When I first went off to college, I let a guy on my dorm floor borrow my car to drive up from Chicago to Wisconsin for the week-end.  It was 1995 Toyota Corolla with a stick shift.  He rolled it on the way up there, and I never saw the car again.  And it was still in my parents' name.

Not good.

[1995hoo]

I remember in December of my first year of college, I taught a friend of mine (who lived down the hall in my dorm and with whom I shared an apartment the following two years) how to drive a manual because we were going to drive to Jacksonville for the Gator Bowl and I wanted him to be able to take over if I got too tired to keep driving (the third guy who made the trip didn't have a driver's license). He picked it up very quickly, but ultimately it didn't matter because I drove the entire way in both directions. I think he's never driven a manual again.

[Takumi]

But these days, they are almost impossible to find on new vehicles, in any case.

If I could have afforded it this year, I was considering getting a 2009 MazdaSpeed3.  That model was offered with stick shift only.

You probably dodged a bullet. Most of those have timing chain issues and it's rare that the owners rectify them.

[formulanone]

I'm on the fence for my next car being manual or not; for one, I feel like it really limits my choices. It also seems like a silly chore for like 75% of my in-town driving. That said, I like getting back in the saddle after 4-5 days in an automatic rental car, and it just feels like more of an authentic experience.

It's a skill I'm glad I have, and it gives me more options in the secondary market.

Not sure exactly what you're specifically referring to with secondary market, but I know it's pretty darn hard to sell/trade in manuals. Obviously the demand is way lower.

Black Book values instantly drop a trade-in value by $500-1000 of a comparable vehicle if manual. Unless it's the only option (Civic Si or Type R, as examples), or for performance-inclined models (VW GTI/R32). And for the most part, dealerships are loathe to keep used most used manual vehicles, because a clutch replacement might dissolve resale profit.

Still, one shouldn't really think of trade-in redemption; if something gives one a greater value than cost, go for it. 

But these days, they are almost impossible to find on new vehicles, in any case.

If I could have afforded it this year, I was considering getting a 2009 MazdaSpeed3.  That model was offered with stick shift only.

You probably dodged a bullet. Most of those have timing chain issues and it's rare that the owners rectify them.

Chain replacement or just the plastic guides? The latter is probably a bit less intensive. NM, just looked it up. Sounds like it's labor intensive as all get-out.

[kkt]

When my kids each got their first cars (early 2000s), they got sticks and we taught them how to drive them.  We always felt confident that their friends would not be able to "borrow" their cars.

When I first went off to college, I let a guy on my dorm floor borrow my car to drive up from Chicago to Wisconsin for the week-end.  It was 1995 Toyota Corolla with a stick shift.  He rolled it on the way up there, and I never saw the car again.  And it was still in my parents' name.

Not good.

College does teach you a lot of lessons, hm?

[J N Winkler]

I have driven a manual--just once.  It was my father's 1981 Toyota Corolla Tercel.  I must have stalled it at least ten times trying to put the clutch in so I could move away from the curb.  Toward the end of that short drive, I took a right turn at close to 20 MPH because I couldn't figure out how to gear down for it.  Thereafter, by tacit mutual agreement, the possibility of further lessons was not mentioned.

Two years later he bought a new car.  I kind of wish we had hung on to the Tercel for further training in stick-shift driving:  the secretary he sold it to totalled it a month later.

[kphoger]

Chain replacement or just the plastic guides? The latter is probably a bit less intensive. NM, just looked it up. Sounds like it's labor intensive as all get-out.

I had the timing chains replaced on my previous vehicle due to an oil leak at the rear timing cover.  Before that, there were bits of plastic noticeable from broken guides.  That was a very expensive and labor-intensive process, honestly over the head of the mechanic I was using at the time.  In the middle of things, I could literally stand inside the engine compartment while it was up on the lift, because that much had to be taken out first.

I've had the timing kit replaced on my current vehicle as well, because a code was thrown for a bit of slack in the chain.  We were already set to use that vehicle on a mission trip to Mexico, so I couldn't afford the leisure of attempting to sell it and buy a new car.  I've got a better mechanic nowadays, but still the repair entailed spreading basically the whole powertrain out on the shop floor.  A while after we returned to the States, the new timing chain broke.  Fortunately, I was in the parking lot at work at the time, having just put the shifter into Drive when the chain broke.  Because I wasn't actually moving, nothing was destroyed:  the chain merely wrapped itself up, and then the engine stalled and wouldn't start again.  So I had it replaced again, for free.  The mechanic attempted to warranty the timing kit out, but I suspect they were told no.

So I don't really care if it's guides or chains at this point in my life:  if it's a timing issue, my heart sinks.

[J N Winkler]

So I don't really care if it's guides or chains at this point in my life:  if it's a timing issue, my heart sinks.

The timing system, including both chains and guides, really is supposed to last for the life of the car.  Just one aspect of servicing it--putting the cover back on with sealant--has beaucoup potential to go wrong.

[Takumi]

So I don't really care if it's guides or chains at this point in my life:  if it's a timing issue, my heart sinks.

The timing system, including both chains and guides, really is supposed to last for the life of the car.  Just one aspect of servicing it--putting the cover back on with sealant--has beaucoup potential to go wrong.

My former Acura TSX had scheduled maintenance on the timing chain at 110,000 miles. For that reason I wonder why Honda K-series owners complain about older Honda engines using timing belts when the K's chain is due for maintenance at the same interval.