Detroit - Removal of I-375

[Flint1979]

They say it's a barrier separating development downtown from growth in Lafayette Park. Lafayette Park is set back from where I-375 is and the part of downtown that borders I-375 isn't really as developed as one might think. I'm not saying that I'm against this though I'm in favor of getting rid of I-375 it's an eyesore and doesn't really serve that much traffic that it needs to be a freeway.

What is such an eyesore about it?  It certainly isn't any more of an eyesore than the other Detroit Freeways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu5GhjBi9N4

All freeways are eyesores. They do wonders to break up development and neighborhoods.

Seriously?  99% of Detroit is an eyesore!  But it is more attractive than Flint, so I guess I can see where you're coming from.

The freeways are part of what made it an eyesore, that and the 1967 riots. Where I-375 is at though would be much less of an eyesore if it was removed. I really never saw the need for I-375 south of the Lafayette exit it seems like almost everyone that uses it gets off at Madison or Lafayette, some traffic of course goes all the way to Jefferson but I bet the VPD count drops south of Lafayette. It does break up the city though.

The 1960s era riots are not even a memory to all but a very few much older people who are still alive.  That is a big reason why central Detroit is becoming a *HOT* development area for today's younger crowd.  Central Detroit has an incredible amount of close-in developable land, too.  Some legacy freeways (like I-375) don't make a lot of sense to today's crowds and traffic patterns and they should be addressed for re-engineering for maximum utility all around.  If it is best re-engineered into a major surface street, so be it.

Mike

The 1967 riots most certainly are a memory to a lot of people still around the Detroit area. Detroit has never recovered from the 67 riots and had been declining even before that which brings us to the fact that the vast freeway system did wonders to destroy the city, the 67 riots were the icing on the cake and white flight was rampant in the 70's and 80's but the suburbs kept growing that was mainly people moving from the city to the suburbs but also new people moving into the area as well. Detroit lost 25% of it's population between 2000 and 2010 which is pretty recent. There were still 1.6 million people living in Detroit in 1970, by 1990 it was just over a million. Right now Detroit is at about half of it's 1980 population. It is not a city that is growing, the decline might become more stable but the decline is still present. Downtown development has been a thing since Dennis Archer was the mayor, then Kwame Kilpatrick screwed the city up after Archer left office and now you have Mike Duggan who is a good guy and a good mayor for the city as the mayor and the last 10 years things have improved downtown but the rest of the city is still a mess. I have covered every single corner of the city of Detroit over the course of my lifetime. I have been for removing I-375 and for every freeway within the Grand Boulevard loop except for the mainline Interstate's (I-75, 94 and 96).

Psst...1967 was 55 years ago.  Those that lived through it are dying off.

Just between me and my kids, you're seeing events becoming history taught rather than remembered.  You're talking about riots that occurred when my parents were teenagers.

So, the idea that a lot if people remember the riots is becoming less true, if not false altogether.

As we age, we think of events 20 years ago as more recent than they are.  55 is two generations away...

The whole point is that Detroit has never recovered from riots that happened 55 years ago. All Detroit has been doing my entire life is becoming less and less populated. It's also one of the most crime ridden cities in America. This is a city of 139 square miles and there are about 136 of those 139 square miles that nobody wants to hang out in. It is not false that Detroit is still suffering from the riots.

I don't think the riots were why industry bolted from Detroit.

The riots were a major part of why people bolted from Detroit.

Meh.  Show me a better multivariate analysis on this claim.

There were a LOT of factors in the mid-late 20th century declines of Detroit and many other cities in Michigan.  The 'legacy' (pre=WWII) city was heavily developed as detached single family residential away from the commercial and industrial parts, with precious little multi family (Did this pre-WWII development pattern have a racial motive?) mixed in.  the market for detached 1f residential in the city collapsed after that.  shortly after WWII ended, the Michigan legislature passed/governor signed the  Charter Townships Act' pretty much slamming the annexation door on cities statewide (the Cities of Iron Mountain and Marquette, MI are surrounded by charter townships, for God's sake...). Also in the 1960s, federal judges ordering cross-town school busing for desegregation drove uncounted additional numbers of families from the city into its suburbs, etc.

Detroit was the eye of a 'perfect storm' of all of the worst that the 20th century wrecked upon USA cities. not just in Michigan, but nationwide.

Mike.

You did a pretty good job of summing it up. I live in Saginaw Township which is a charter township (there are civil townships as well) it is bordered by the city of Saginaw which can't expand because of the reason that you mentioned with cities like Iron Mountain and Marquette. And like Detroit it's surrounded by cities and charter townships so it can't expand past it's 139 square miles. For a good laugh check out Novi Township which is totally surrounded by the city of Novi and only 0.11 square miles.

[Flint1979]

Also I-96 was supposed to follow Grand River Avenue out to Farmington Hills. The part of M-5 where it's a freeway was supposed to be part of this and follow Grand River all the way into Detroit. When this got canceled it was moved to follow the current alignment along Schoolcraft Road and because of this crosses Grand River Avenue twice. Also canceled were the Mound Road Freeway and the extension of the Davison which I believe I mentioned in an earlier post.

I approve of the freeways being canceled and potentially removed especially closer to downtown. I'd love a Detroit with no freeways within the Grand Boulevard loop. I have a thread about what i would do to Detroit https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23250.msg2395256#msg2395256

[Ryctor2018]

Your fictional proposal (this can be moved to a fictional thread) has a major issue with truck traffic and both the Ambassador and Gordie Howe Bridges. Removing interstate connections in the Central Business District would introduce an unbelievable amount of truck traffic to the busiest land crossing in North America. You would need to create a system to reroute that truck traffic without disrupting the border crossing delays or the city traffic those trucks would produce.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

[Terry Shea]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.   

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

That's what I'm trying to figure out if this proposal will free up real estate which seems like it will.

[Terry Shea]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

That's what I'm trying to figure out if this proposal will free up real estate which seems like it will.

How so?  A boulevard still has a median.  And probably Michigan lefts, roundabouts or some other space wasting "traffic controls."

[Flint1979]

The way this should be done is making the service drives the street and in the middle developing it. Like the middle of the current freeway would be where development should go not a wide boulevard.

[Flint1979]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

That's what I'm trying to figure out if this proposal will free up real estate which seems like it will.

Honestly it's not that Detroit needs real estate freed up but it's a connection thing. I-375 separates downtown from everything east of downtown. Take like Monroe Street which ends at the NB service drive and then there is nothing over there. I'm rather excited to see what will happen but Detroit's downtown isn't in demand for more space when you have several parking lots that could be developed into buildings. Look at the area behind the Fox Theatre all the way to Grand River for a good example of that.

[Flint1979]

Then you have that huge parking lot east of the RenCen that has nothing on it other than parking spaces. I mean just look at this. Build a damn parking garage instead and develop this area.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3300552,-83.03593,286m/data=!3m1!1e3

[wanderer2575]

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

The freeway needs to be replaced, one way or the other.  The pavement is bad; bridges are crumbling and being held up with "temporary" props.  As has been noted previously here, it's been determined that rebuilding the freeway as-is will cost more than removing it and putting in a boulevard.

There is also a perception, whether psychological or practical reality, that the freeway divides the city.  A lot of people still remember the destruction of the Black Bottom community to build it and they want to see it go away.  That community can never be replaced (and whatever new development that may come about is unknown) but removing the freeway may bring some closure.  Scoff if you want, but that's part of "quality of life" and is worth something.

Your comments about traffic tie-ups make no sense.  Currently one has to exit the freeway to surface streets at some point.  Traffic tie-ups won't be any worse than they already are unless traffic volume increases.  And your totally irrelevant "unreasonably priced parking" comment shows that you're really reaching.

... Detroit's downtown isn't in demand for more space when you have several parking lots that could be developed into buildings. Look at the area behind the Fox Theatre all the way to Grand River for a good example of that.

Actually, not the best example.  Those lots are filled for events at the Fox Theatre/LC Arena/Comerica Park/Ford Field.  Whether replacing the lots with vertical parking garages is a worthwhile investment is another discussion.

[skluth]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

I suggest you compare this project to what happened after Milwaukee removed the Park Freeway. The area around the old stub of a freeway (not unlike I-375 though the Park was expected to continue further east) was a dump of decrepit buildings and empty parking lots around a highway which took up a huge amount of land for very little traffic or any other benefit. It's now a hub in central Milwaukee's revival, commonly called the Deer District; you might have seen it during the Bucks NBA championship run.

I don't agree with all freeway removals but this one makes sense. Activists in the Bay Area want to remove I-980 in Oakland using what can only be called underwear gnome logic. The urbanists against I-345 in Dallas are just as ridiculous. But removing I-375 makes sense. It's old and needs a complete teardown and rebuild. Best to build it to make it the most useful it can be. I believe the boulevard plan is much better for everyone - local residents, downtown businesses, and even drivers thanks to the improved traffic flow along I-75.

[Flint1979]

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

The freeway needs to be replaced, one way or the other.  The pavement is bad; bridges are crumbling and being held up with "temporary" props.  As has been noted previously here, it's been determined that rebuilding the freeway as-is will cost more than removing it and putting in a boulevard.

There is also a perception, whether psychological or practical reality, that the freeway divides the city.  A lot of people still remember the destruction of the Black Bottom community to build it and they want to see it go away.  That community can never be replaced (and whatever new development that may come about is unknown) but removing the freeway may bring some closure.  Scoff if you want, but that's part of "quality of life" and is worth something.

Your comments about traffic tie-ups make no sense.  Currently one has to exit the freeway to surface streets at some point.  Traffic tie-ups won't be any worse than they already are unless traffic volume increases.  And your totally irrelevant "unreasonably priced parking" comment shows that you're really reaching.

... Detroit's downtown isn't in demand for more space when you have several parking lots that could be developed into buildings. Look at the area behind the Fox Theatre all the way to Grand River for a good example of that.

Actually, not the best example.  Those lots are filled for events at the Fox Theatre/LC Arena/Comerica Park/Ford Field.  Whether replacing the lots with vertical parking garages is a worthwhile investment is another discussion.

That was just an example but they were discussing developing the lots between Comerica Park and Woodward such as where the former Wolverine Hotel once stood not too long ago. This is indeed for a different topic but the Ilitch families broken promises for development have been part of why these lots haven't been developed. Build some parking garages where there is demand for parking spaces and develop the ground floor into retail. In ending here I remember when the Madison Lenox Hotel was demolished and currently only a parking lot sits on the property.

[Flint1979]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

I suggest you compare this project to what happened after Milwaukee removed the Park Freeway. The area around the old stub of a freeway (not unlike I-375 though the Park was expected to continue further east) was a dump of decrepit buildings and empty parking lots around a highway which took up a huge amount of land for very little traffic or any other benefit. It's now a hub in central Milwaukee's revival, commonly called the Deer District; you might have seen it during the Bucks NBA championship run.

I don't agree with all freeway removals but this one makes sense. Activists in the Bay Area want to remove I-980 in Oakland using what can only be called underwear gnome logic. The urbanists against I-345 in Dallas are just as ridiculous. But removing I-375 makes sense. It's old and needs a complete teardown and rebuild. Best to build it to make it the most useful it can be. I believe the boulevard plan is much better for everyone - local residents, downtown businesses, and even drivers thanks to the improved traffic flow along I-75.

I'm not against freeways totally but within the Grand Boulevard loop which is the Old Detroit before they started annexing land out to 8 Mile I'd rather see as few freeways as possible. Detroit's downtown is surrounded by freeways on three sides and a river on the other side so this problem is present on three sides of downtown. It does make the most sense to tear it down completely and rebuild it as a surface street (boulevard).

I really don't want to see it built as a boulevard with the median being as wide as the current freeway and nothing on it but grass but it could make out as nice park or something with trees growing instead of a large freeway being there. Also the interchange between I-75, I-375 and the Gratiot exit needs to be replaced as well. I-75 slows down to a 25 mph curve on the NB side where I-375 splits from it and it has been a pain for years. I-75 should be capped between the Lodge and this interchange as much as possible so that Midtown and Downtown can be connected it would do wonders for development of the area and with the planned District Detroit which hasn't even started construction other than Little Caesars Arena being built it would be a great time to connect Downtown to the rest of the city.

[skluth]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

I suggest you compare this project to what happened after Milwaukee removed the Park Freeway. The area around the old stub of a freeway (not unlike I-375 though the Park was expected to continue further east) was a dump of decrepit buildings and empty parking lots around a highway which took up a huge amount of land for very little traffic or any other benefit. It's now a hub in central Milwaukee's revival, commonly called the Deer District; you might have seen it during the Bucks NBA championship run.

I don't agree with all freeway removals but this one makes sense. Activists in the Bay Area want to remove I-980 in Oakland using what can only be called underwear gnome logic. The urbanists against I-345 in Dallas are just as ridiculous. But removing I-375 makes sense. It's old and needs a complete teardown and rebuild. Best to build it to make it the most useful it can be. I believe the boulevard plan is much better for everyone - local residents, downtown businesses, and even drivers thanks to the improved traffic flow along I-75.

I'm not against freeways totally but within the Grand Boulevard loop which is the Old Detroit before they started annexing land out to 8 Mile I'd rather see as few freeways as possible. Detroit's downtown is surrounded by freeways on three sides and a river on the other side so this problem is present on three sides of downtown. It does make the most sense to tear it down completely and rebuild it as a surface street (boulevard).

I really don't want to see it built as a boulevard with the median being as wide as the current freeway and nothing on it but grass but it could make out as nice park or something with trees growing instead of a large freeway being there. Also the interchange between I-75, I-375 and the Gratiot exit needs to be replaced as well. I-75 slows down to a 25 mph curve on the NB side where I-375 splits from it and it has been a pain for years. I-75 should be capped between the Lodge and this interchange as much as possible so that Midtown and Downtown can be connected it would do wonders for development of the area and with the planned District Detroit which hasn't even started construction other than Little Caesars Arena being built it would be a great time to connect Downtown to the rest of the city.

This is the preferred alternative which looks like it's gone through all the preconstruction hoops. I personally don't think it's good to eliminate the direct access between I-75 and Gratiot, but I'm not familiar with the area so those ramps may not be very busy. The boulevard doesn't look excessively wide. I don't know if the green areas are to remain park or are waiting for development. I don't think it needs to be all parkland.

Here's the entire project website for those who don't want to look back to find it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah I am having trouble understanding why they'd grade separate the street from Montcalm but not build a free flowing interchange at I-75.

[skluth]

Yeah I am having trouble understanding why they'd grade separate the street from Montcalm but not build a free flowing interchange at I-75.

Oh, good grief. I didn't even notice that. I didn't notice the lights there at my laptop's scale until zooming in just now. There's not only a light where the ramps cross but where NB I-75 exits. (I'm hoping the light at going NB at I-75 on what I assume will be Chrysler Blvd is just a bad mistake.) The interchange plan is even worse than I assumed originally. As much as I think removing I-375 is for the best, they really clustered the plan for everything north of Gratiot. I think every poster here could design a better interchange (not counting FritzOwl and some of the other major fantasy designers).

[Flint1979]

Yeah these conversations about removing urban freeways are idiotic. 375 is one that needs be removed and that's what this thread is about. Detroit will be better once this project is completed and hopefully new development pops up.

You have a free flowing freeway from I-75 to the riverfront.  So let's spend, er uh, waste millions of taxpayer dollars putting in a boulevard that takes up the exact same space, and will no doubt add traffic signals and traffic tie-ups, no doubt adding to the traffic tie-ups and backups already along I-75 and adjacent streets.  Going to a Tigers or Lions game should really be a load of fun getting tied up in traffic and looking for unreasonably priced parking.

I suggest you compare this project to what happened after Milwaukee removed the Park Freeway. The area around the old stub of a freeway (not unlike I-375 though the Park was expected to continue further east) was a dump of decrepit buildings and empty parking lots around a highway which took up a huge amount of land for very little traffic or any other benefit. It's now a hub in central Milwaukee's revival, commonly called the Deer District; you might have seen it during the Bucks NBA championship run.

I don't agree with all freeway removals but this one makes sense. Activists in the Bay Area want to remove I-980 in Oakland using what can only be called underwear gnome logic. The urbanists against I-345 in Dallas are just as ridiculous. But removing I-375 makes sense. It's old and needs a complete teardown and rebuild. Best to build it to make it the most useful it can be. I believe the boulevard plan is much better for everyone - local residents, downtown businesses, and even drivers thanks to the improved traffic flow along I-75.

I'm not against freeways totally but within the Grand Boulevard loop which is the Old Detroit before they started annexing land out to 8 Mile I'd rather see as few freeways as possible. Detroit's downtown is surrounded by freeways on three sides and a river on the other side so this problem is present on three sides of downtown. It does make the most sense to tear it down completely and rebuild it as a surface street (boulevard).

I really don't want to see it built as a boulevard with the median being as wide as the current freeway and nothing on it but grass but it could make out as nice park or something with trees growing instead of a large freeway being there. Also the interchange between I-75, I-375 and the Gratiot exit needs to be replaced as well. I-75 slows down to a 25 mph curve on the NB side where I-375 splits from it and it has been a pain for years. I-75 should be capped between the Lodge and this interchange as much as possible so that Midtown and Downtown can be connected it would do wonders for development of the area and with the planned District Detroit which hasn't even started construction other than Little Caesars Arena being built it would be a great time to connect Downtown to the rest of the city.

This is the preferred alternative which looks like it's gone through all the preconstruction hoops. I personally don't think it's good to eliminate the direct access between I-75 and Gratiot, but I'm not familiar with the area so those ramps may not be very busy. The boulevard doesn't look excessively wide. I don't know if the green areas are to remain park or are waiting for development. I don't think it needs to be all parkland.

Here's the entire project website for those who don't want to look back to find it.

That is pretty much how it should be right there. Looks like it'll be developed to me either as parkland or commercial use. Gratiot doesn't really get much traffic from I-75 as most traffic already on I-75 would use I-94 to get to Gratiot. Gratiot really isn't that busy of a street downtown it's busier in Macomb County.

[Flint1979]

Yeah I am having trouble understanding why they'd grade separate the street from Montcalm but not build a free flowing interchange at I-75.

Oh, good grief. I didn't even notice that. I didn't notice the lights there at my laptop's scale until zooming in just now. There's not only a light where the ramps cross but where NB I-75 exits. (I'm hoping the light at going NB at I-75 on what I assume will be Chrysler Blvd is just a bad mistake.) The interchange plan is even worse than I assumed originally. As much as I think removing I-375 is for the best, they really clustered the plan for everything north of Gratiot. I think every poster here could design a better interchange (not counting FritzOwl and some of the other major fantasy designers).

I looked at it closely. I am familiar with the area and it is not a bad setup at all. It looks like all connections that are currently there will still be able to be made to Gratiot Avenue. NB I see a ramp that follows the course of the through freeway and intersects with all connections. It has a ramp to connect to where the SB I-375 freeway would once be. There is a new connector to Gratiot there replacing the old one and Montcalm Street is a through street to Gratiot. Looks like a much better setup and it won't take up as much land.

[skluth]

Yeah I am having trouble understanding why they'd grade separate the street from Montcalm but not build a free flowing interchange at I-75.

Oh, good grief. I didn't even notice that. I didn't notice the lights there at my laptop's scale until zooming in just now. There's not only a light where the ramps cross but where NB I-75 exits. (I'm hoping the light at going NB at I-75 on what I assume will be Chrysler Blvd is just a bad mistake.) The interchange plan is even worse than I assumed originally. As much as I think removing I-375 is for the best, they really clustered the plan for everything north of Gratiot. I think every poster here could design a better interchange (not counting FritzOwl and some of the other major fantasy designers).

I looked at it closely. I am familiar with the area and it is not a bad setup at all. It looks like all connections that are currently there will still be able to be made to Gratiot Avenue. NB I see a ramp that follows the course of the through freeway and intersects with all connections. It has a ramp to connect to where the SB I-375 freeway would once be. There is a new connector to Gratiot there replacing the old one and Montcalm Street is a through street to Gratiot. Looks like a much better setup and it won't take up as much land.

I will take your word on this as I have never been there. (Only been as close as Ann Arbor.) I'm just used to DOTs in WI and MO, and I think both states would have built a free-flowing interchange to I-75 there. I'm new to CA but I think Caltrans would also have. If there isn't much traffic on the ramps to Gratiot or on Gratiot itself (I'm guessing it's much like Choteau or North Florissant in St Louis which were widened pre-interstate and comparatively overbuilt now), I understand not replacing them but I would still build a free-flowing interchange to Chrysler Blvd. If not, I think it would work better by eliminating the curved ramps to/from SB I-75 and make the interchange more like a standard diamond - or even a partial DDI where all the lights are south of I-75.

[triplemultiplex]

Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!

[Plutonic Panda]

Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!

Should have pedestrian bridges.

[Flint1979]

Yeah I am having trouble understanding why they'd grade separate the street from Montcalm but not build a free flowing interchange at I-75.

Oh, good grief. I didn't even notice that. I didn't notice the lights there at my laptop's scale until zooming in just now. There's not only a light where the ramps cross but where NB I-75 exits. (I'm hoping the light at going NB at I-75 on what I assume will be Chrysler Blvd is just a bad mistake.) The interchange plan is even worse than I assumed originally. As much as I think removing I-375 is for the best, they really clustered the plan for everything north of Gratiot. I think every poster here could design a better interchange (not counting FritzOwl and some of the other major fantasy designers).

I looked at it closely. I am familiar with the area and it is not a bad setup at all. It looks like all connections that are currently there will still be able to be made to Gratiot Avenue. NB I see a ramp that follows the course of the through freeway and intersects with all connections. It has a ramp to connect to where the SB I-375 freeway would once be. There is a new connector to Gratiot there replacing the old one and Montcalm Street is a through street to Gratiot. Looks like a much better setup and it won't take up as much land.

I will take your word on this as I have never been there. (Only been as close as Ann Arbor.) I'm just used to DOTs in WI and MO, and I think both states would have built a free-flowing interchange to I-75 there. I'm new to CA but I think Caltrans would also have. If there isn't much traffic on the ramps to Gratiot or on Gratiot itself (I'm guessing it's much like Choteau or North Florissant in St Louis which were widened pre-interstate and comparatively overbuilt now), I understand not replacing them but I would still build a free-flowing interchange to Chrysler Blvd. If not, I think it would work better by eliminating the curved ramps to/from SB I-75 and make the interchange more like a standard diamond - or even a partial DDI where all the lights are south of I-75.

It would make sense to build it as a freeway up until Gratiot at least as off ramps like how Ontario and Ohio Streets are in Chicago. Gratiot isn't that busy of a street there, it only has around 10,000 VPD and under 10,000 VPD downtown. I'm taking it what you are calling Chrysler Blvd. is the new boulevard, it fits the grid as Hastings Street which is the historic name for the corridor. It can work like that as long as the through traffic is kept off the ramps like it currently is. I would have been happy with them just stopping the freeway at Gratiot and removing the Gratiot connector.

[Flint1979]

Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!

Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

[silverback1065]

Michigan is known for absurdly wide roads