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Detroit - Removal of I-375

Started by JREwing78, November 24, 2013, 11:25:14 PM

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triplemultiplex

Quote from: Flint1979 on March 23, 2022, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!
Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

The proposed surface road is 8 lanes plus turn lanes at Gratiot.  That is an intimidating physical barrier to pedestrians regardless of whether it's broken into smaller chunks where pedestrians can be stranded between cycles. Combined withe proximity to the stadiums, I feel it would be appropriate to have an pedestrian overpass at this location.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."


Flint1979

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2022, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 23, 2022, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!
Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

The proposed surface road is 8 lanes plus turn lanes at Gratiot.  That is an intimidating physical barrier to pedestrians regardless of whether it's broken into smaller chunks where pedestrians can be stranded between cycles. Combined withe proximity to the stadiums, I feel it would be appropriate to have an pedestrian overpass at this location.
Well the stadium pedestrian traffic is on the west side of this, there isn't much demand for stadium parking east of I-375 and if there is anyone that parks over there Montcalm Street looks like it's a bridge over the eight lanes which would work fine for pedestrian traffic. Most of the stadium traffic parks in either the parking garages downtown or behind the Fox Theater. All I'm saying is that there isn't much pedestrian traffic on Gratiot even on game days.

I remember the night that Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were both killed after getting hit by a car on Gratiot in that area. Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were two Detroit street legends, Dreadlock Mike was in a wheelchair and James Van Horn is the guy that used to shake his cup and belt out Eat em up Tigers eat em up before and after games. But that was just an incident that happened and it made me think of it talking about this part of Gratiot.

The Ghostbuster

This is in response to Thegeet starting a new Interstate 375 removal thread. I think Interstate 375 should not be converted into a boulevard. The other parts of the project (such as allowing Interstate 75 to pass through the interchange without exiting, eliminating the connector to Gratiot Ave.) I could totally get behind. I think a boulevard with signals would not be better for the corridor either traffic-wise or for pedestrian-safety. If it were up to me, I would rebuild 375 in its existing configuration, and build caps over the freeway. There was a story in The Detroit Free Press on December 15, 2013 titled "Removing I-375 an urban planning disaster waiting to happen"  that sums up my view of the matter very accurately; access to the story can be found at the bottom of the Interstate 375 (Michigan) Wikipedia page.

Flint1979

Most of the traffic that gets on I-375 gets off at either Madison or Lafayette. Only about 15,000 VPD travel down to Jefferson. I would hope for the service drives to become the thru traffic and develop the area where I-375 used to be. Ultimately I would love a downtown Detroit without the Lodge Freeway on the other side of downtown as well and make I-75 go through a tunnel. Those interchanges take up massive amounts of space.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 15, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
This is in response to Thegeet starting a new Interstate 375 removal thread. I think Interstate 375 should not be converted into a boulevard. The other parts of the project (such as allowing Interstate 75 to pass through the interchange without exiting, eliminating the connector to Gratiot Ave.) I could totally get behind. I think a boulevard with signals would not be better for the corridor either traffic-wise or for pedestrian-safety. If it were up to me, I would rebuild 375 in its existing configuration, and build caps over the freeway. There was a story in The Detroit Free Press on December 15, 2013 titled "Removing I-375 an urban planning disaster waiting to happen"  that sums up my view of the matter very accurately; access to the story can be found at the bottom of the Interstate 375 (Michigan) Wikipedia page.
Ideally it would be converted to a road tunnel but we can't do that here anymore.

Plutonic Panda

#205
$105 million dollar grand awarded for this project:

"On Sept. 15, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg and local Detroit leaders announced that Michigan won a $105 million competitive federal grant to fund the I-375 modernization project in Detroit. The project will replace the outdated I-375 freeway with an accessible boulevard, spurring economic development and linking adjacent areas of Detroit."

- https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/officials-celebrate-michigan-winning-105m-for-historic-i-375/58052

PS, any way we can get a name change to something more relevant?

JoePCool14

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 29, 2022, 01:48:35 AM
$105 million dollar grand awarded for this project:

"On Sept. 15, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg and local Detroit leaders announced that Michigan won a $105 million competitive federal grant to fund the I-375 modernization project in Detroit. The project will replace the outdated I-375 freeway with an accessible boulevard, spurring economic development and linking adjacent areas of Detroit."

- https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/officials-celebrate-michigan-winning-105m-for-historic-i-375/58052

PS, any way we can get a name change to something more relevant?

"Detroit - I-375 Road Diet"

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

zzcarp

Seems like "I-375 decommissioning" would be appropriate.
So many miles and so many roads

wanderer2575

Quote from: zzcarp on September 29, 2022, 11:50:25 AM
Seems like "I-375 decommissioning" would be appropriate.

It's more than that.  "I-375 removal."

zzcarp

Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 29, 2022, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on September 29, 2022, 11:50:25 AM
Seems like "I-375 decommissioning" would be appropriate.

It's more than that.  "I-375 removal."

It's more than a removal too. It's a removal and replacement with a lower-grade, non-interstate-compliant facility that will cause the I-375 decommissioning.
So many miles and so many roads

The Ghostbuster

I wonder if the new boulevard will be named Walter P. Chrysler Boulevard, since it is currently the Walter P. Chrysler Freeway. Also, if the new road gets a state highway designation, like M-375, the unsigned Business Spur 375 should be included as part of the route (signposted of course).

Henry

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
I wonder if the new boulevard will be named Walter P. Chrysler Boulevard, since it is currently the Walter P. Chrysler Freeway. Also, if the new road gets a state highway designation, like M-375, the unsigned Business Spur 375 should be included as part of the route (signposted of course).
I think it would only be right to keep the Chrysler name for the downgraded part. As for M-375, there's always the possibility that it could be unnumbered as well, although I would expect it to be designated that (a la I-895 to NY 895 when the Sheridan Expressway became Sheridan Blvd).
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

JoePCool14

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
I wonder if the new boulevard will be named Walter P. Chrysler Boulevard, since it is currently the Walter P. Chrysler Freeway. Also, if the new road gets a state highway designation, like M-375, the unsigned Business Spur 375 should be included as part of the route (signposted of course).

I have a feeling that the powers that be will give the road a new name, to fight racism or something.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

zzcarp

Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 29, 2022, 01:14:52 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
I wonder if the new boulevard will be named Walter P. Chrysler Boulevard, since it is currently the Walter P. Chrysler Freeway. Also, if the new road gets a state highway designation, like M-375, the unsigned Business Spur 375 should be included as part of the route (signposted of course).

I have a feeling that the powers that be will give the road a new name, to fight racism or something.

That was my thought as well, though I don't know of Mr. Chrysler having problematic baggage such as, say, Henry Ford has.
So many miles and so many roads

JoePCool14

Quote from: zzcarp on September 29, 2022, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 29, 2022, 01:14:52 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
I wonder if the new boulevard will be named Walter P. Chrysler Boulevard, since it is currently the Walter P. Chrysler Freeway. Also, if the new road gets a state highway designation, like M-375, the unsigned Business Spur 375 should be included as part of the route (signposted of course).

I have a feeling that the powers that be will give the road a new name, to fight racism or something.

That was my thought as well, though I don't know of Mr. Chrysler having problematic baggage such as, say, Henry Ford has.

I wasn't even necessarily thinking of that, but that the road would be given a new name because of the way it now "connects the community". Seems ripe for a rebrand.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

Terry Shea

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 29, 2022, 01:48:35 AM
$105 million dollar grand awarded for this project:

"On Sept. 15, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg and local Detroit leaders announced that Michigan won a $105 million competitive federal grant to fund the I-375 modernization project in Detroit. The project will replace the outdated I-375 freeway with an accessible boulevard, spurring economic development and linking adjacent areas of Detroit."

- https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/officials-celebrate-michigan-winning-105m-for-historic-i-375/58052

PS, any way we can get a name change to something more relevant?
How about "Waste O'Money Blvd"?

skluth

I'd really like to know how many complaining about the removal of I-375 actually use it. I don't. I've never been to Detroit. The plan looks like something that helps both drivers and local residents. This isn't some insane anti-freeway proposal like those in Oakland or Dallas where urbanists are attempting to remove useful freeways. Even if you take out the racial aspects, it's no longer very useful and even I-75 will be better with its removal. Detroit isn't the same city it was when I-375 was built; it's smaller and its downtown isn't the dynamic place it was in 1964. It's outlived whatever usefulness it had. Removing I-375 is like removing an old railroad unused track. It's not important anymore.

Plutonic Panda


Flint1979

I use I-375 but almost never go all the way to Jefferson, I usually get off at Lafayette.

Flint1979

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
I wonder if the new boulevard will be named Walter P. Chrysler Boulevard, since it is currently the Walter P. Chrysler Freeway. Also, if the new road gets a state highway designation, like M-375, the unsigned Business Spur 375 should be included as part of the route (signposted of course).
If they do it right it would be named Hastings Street which is the old name and a continuation of that street. I doubt it will become a state highway.

Terry Shea

Quote from: skluth on September 29, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
I'd really like to know how many complaining about the removal of I-375 actually use it. I don't. I've never been to Detroit. The plan looks like something that helps both drivers and local residents. This isn't some insane anti-freeway proposal like those in Oakland or Dallas where urbanists are attempting to remove useful freeways. Even if you take out the racial aspects, it's no longer very useful and even I-75 will be better with its removal. Detroit isn't the same city it was when I-375 was built; it's smaller and its downtown isn't the dynamic place it was in 1964. It's outlived whatever usefulness it had. Removing I-375 is like removing an old railroad unused track. It's not important anymore.

This will not reunite neighborhoods that have been disrupted for 60 years.  In fact, there are very few, if any, occupied houses west of the freeway, presently.  Pedestrian travel will still be problematic because a multi-lane boulevard will be put in its place.  Access to Comerica Park, Ford Field, Greektown Casino, The Renaissance Center, tunnel to Canada and the Detroit Riverfront will now be subject to less free flowing traffic and more traffic signals.  Hey, if you're going to demolish the freeway, then do the right thing and turn it into a massive, low-cost parking lot for sporting events, casino patrons, shoppers, tourists and business people.  This is Detroit, where over 1 million people have left over the past several decades, despite building 3 casinos and constructing 3 new sports facilities.  There's all kinds of land available for retail operations in the city, so there is absolutely no need to disrupt traffic flow to sporting events, casinos, the riverfront and Canada. 

Terry Shea

#221
Quote from: skluth on September 29, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
I'd really like to know how many complaining about the removal of I-375 actually use it. I don't. I've never been to Detroit. The plan looks like something that helps both drivers and local residents. This isn't some insane anti-freeway proposal like those in Oakland or Dallas where urbanists are attempting to remove useful freeways. Even if you take out the racial aspects, it's no longer very useful and even I-75 will be better with its removal. Detroit isn't the same city it was when I-375 was built; it's smaller and its downtown isn't the dynamic place it was in 1964. It's outlived whatever usefulness it had. Removing I-375 is like removing an old railroad unused track. It's not important anymore.

This will not reunite neighborhoods that have been disrupted for 60 years.  In fact, there are very few, if any, occupied houses west of the freeway, presently.  Pedestrian travel will still be problematic because a multi-lane boulevard will be put in its place.  Access to Comerica Park, Ford Field, Greektown Casino, The Renaissance Center, tunnel to Canada and the Detroit Riverfront will now be subject to less free flowing traffic and more traffic signals.  Hey, if you're going to demolish the freeway, then do the right thing and turn it into a massive, low-cost parking lot for sporting events, casino patrons, shoppers, tourists and business people.  This is Detroit, where over 1 million people have left over the past several decades, despite building 3 casinos and constructing 3 new sports facilities.  There's all kinds of land available for retail operations in the city, so there is absolutely no need to disrupt traffic flow to sporting events, casinos, the riverfront and Canada. 
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2022, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2022, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 23, 2022, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!
Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

The proposed surface road is 8 lanes plus turn lanes at Gratiot.  That is an intimidating physical barrier to pedestrians regardless of whether it's broken into smaller chunks where pedestrians can be stranded between cycles. Combined withe proximity to the stadiums, I feel it would be appropriate to have an pedestrian overpass at this location.
Well the stadium pedestrian traffic is on the west side of this, there isn't much demand for stadium parking east of I-375 and if there is anyone that parks over there Montcalm Street looks like it's a bridge over the eight lanes which would work fine for pedestrian traffic. Most of the stadium traffic parks in either the parking garages downtown or behind the Fox Theater. All I'm saying is that there isn't much pedestrian traffic on Gratiot even on game days.

I remember the night that Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were both killed after getting hit by a car on Gratiot in that area. Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were two Detroit street legends, Dreadlock Mike was in a wheelchair and James Van Horn is the guy that used to shake his cup and belt out Eat em up Tigers eat em up before and after games. But that was just an incident that happened and it made me think of it talking about this part of Gratiot.
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2022, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2022, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 23, 2022, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!
Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

The proposed surface road is 8 lanes plus turn lanes at Gratiot.  That is an intimidating physical barrier to pedestrians regardless of whether it's broken into smaller chunks where pedestrians can be stranded between cycles. Combined withe proximity to the stadiums, I feel it would be appropriate to have an pedestrian overpass at this location.
Well the stadium pedestrian traffic is on the west side of this, there isn't much demand for stadium parking east of I-375 and if there is anyone that parks over there Montcalm Street looks like it's a bridge over the eight lanes which would work fine for pedestrian traffic. Most of the stadium traffic parks in either the parking garages downtown or behind the Fox Theater. All I'm saying is that there isn't much pedestrian traffic on Gratiot even on game days.

I remember the night that Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were both killed after getting hit by a car on Gratiot in that area. Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were two Detroit street legends, Dreadlock Mike was in a wheelchair and James Van Horn is the guy that used to shake his cup and belt out Eat em up Tigers eat em up before and after games. But that was just an incident that happened and it made me think of it talking about this part of Gratiot.
I always park east of I-375.  Parking is much cheaper and a much shorter walk than much of the pay through the nose parking west of I-375.

Alex

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 29, 2022, 01:48:35 AM
PS, any way we can get a name change to something more relevant?

Done with a subtle change.

Flint1979

Quote from: Terry Shea on September 30, 2022, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: skluth on September 29, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
I'd really like to know how many complaining about the removal of I-375 actually use it. I don't. I've never been to Detroit. The plan looks like something that helps both drivers and local residents. This isn't some insane anti-freeway proposal like those in Oakland or Dallas where urbanists are attempting to remove useful freeways. Even if you take out the racial aspects, it's no longer very useful and even I-75 will be better with its removal. Detroit isn't the same city it was when I-375 was built; it's smaller and its downtown isn't the dynamic place it was in 1964. It's outlived whatever usefulness it had. Removing I-375 is like removing an old railroad unused track. It's not important anymore.

This will not reunite neighborhoods that have been disrupted for 60 years.  In fact, there are very few, if any, occupied houses west of the freeway, presently.  Pedestrian travel will still be problematic because a multi-lane boulevard will be put in its place.  Access to Comerica Park, Ford Field, Greektown Casino, The Renaissance Center, tunnel to Canada and the Detroit Riverfront will now be subject to less free flowing traffic and more traffic signals.  Hey, if you're going to demolish the freeway, then do the right thing and turn it into a massive, low-cost parking lot for sporting events, casino patrons, shoppers, tourists and business people.  This is Detroit, where over 1 million people have left over the past several decades, despite building 3 casinos and constructing 3 new sports facilities.  There's all kinds of land available for retail operations in the city, so there is absolutely no need to disrupt traffic flow to sporting events, casinos, the riverfront and Canada. 
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2022, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2022, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 23, 2022, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!
Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

The proposed surface road is 8 lanes plus turn lanes at Gratiot.  That is an intimidating physical barrier to pedestrians regardless of whether it's broken into smaller chunks where pedestrians can be stranded between cycles. Combined withe proximity to the stadiums, I feel it would be appropriate to have an pedestrian overpass at this location.
Well the stadium pedestrian traffic is on the west side of this, there isn't much demand for stadium parking east of I-375 and if there is anyone that parks over there Montcalm Street looks like it's a bridge over the eight lanes which would work fine for pedestrian traffic. Most of the stadium traffic parks in either the parking garages downtown or behind the Fox Theater. All I'm saying is that there isn't much pedestrian traffic on Gratiot even on game days.

I remember the night that Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were both killed after getting hit by a car on Gratiot in that area. Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were two Detroit street legends, Dreadlock Mike was in a wheelchair and James Van Horn is the guy that used to shake his cup and belt out Eat em up Tigers eat em up before and after games. But that was just an incident that happened and it made me think of it talking about this part of Gratiot.
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2022, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2022, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 23, 2022, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 23, 2022, 03:35:26 PM
Yikes, looks like pedestrians would have to cross 12 lanes of traffic at Gratiot and the new facility.  That'll mess with your signal timing!
Where abouts are you talking about? Gratiot is six lanes and you can pause in the median of the boulevard to wait and cross the rest of the street if where you are talking about is a stretch of Gratiot where this is present.

The proposed surface road is 8 lanes plus turn lanes at Gratiot.  That is an intimidating physical barrier to pedestrians regardless of whether it's broken into smaller chunks where pedestrians can be stranded between cycles. Combined withe proximity to the stadiums, I feel it would be appropriate to have an pedestrian overpass at this location.
Well the stadium pedestrian traffic is on the west side of this, there isn't much demand for stadium parking east of I-375 and if there is anyone that parks over there Montcalm Street looks like it's a bridge over the eight lanes which would work fine for pedestrian traffic. Most of the stadium traffic parks in either the parking garages downtown or behind the Fox Theater. All I'm saying is that there isn't much pedestrian traffic on Gratiot even on game days.

I remember the night that Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were both killed after getting hit by a car on Gratiot in that area. Dreadlock Mike and James Van Horn were two Detroit street legends, Dreadlock Mike was in a wheelchair and James Van Horn is the guy that used to shake his cup and belt out Eat em up Tigers eat em up before and after games. But that was just an incident that happened and it made me think of it talking about this part of Gratiot.
I always park east of I-375.  Parking is much cheaper and a much shorter walk than much of the pay through the nose parking west of I-375.
I'll usually park behind the Fox Theater on Cass like between Columbia and Elizabeth pretty much where the Chin Tiki used to be.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Alex on October 09, 2022, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 29, 2022, 01:48:35 AM
PS, any way we can get a name change to something more relevant?

Done with a subtle change.
Thanks! Much better, IMHO.



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