Who Else Is Bucking the Smartphone Trend?

[vdeane]

...  stop using Facebook.

Done!  And a long time ago, I might add!

I haven't seen the redesigned interface you're all talking about.  I didn't like the old one, maybe I'd like the new one better?  But probably not if it's made primarily for portable devices.

That's basically what happened - Facebook decided that they didn't want to maintain separate code bases for mobile apps/the mobile site and the desktop site, so they merged everything together into a mobile-optimized design that doesn't work as well on the desktop as what was there before.

[doorknob60]

Is it resistance for the sake of resistance, or is it resistance for the sake of: Why the **** should I be compelled to pay $150 for a full-blown computer that goes obsolete in a few years and $50 per month on top of my already existing phone bill for data?  To me, the convenience of Google-on-the-Go isn't worth the cost, especially when it's something I never wanted in the first place!

How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.

[Ned Weasel]

How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.

The cheapest unlimited-everything plan I know of from T-Mobile is $60 per month.  If I could get it for $30, I'd be interested, but $60 is more than I want to spend when I no longer have a high-paying job.

I was paying $20 per month for unlimited talk and text, but when I went to the T-Mobile store this past weekend, they offered a promotion where they gave me a plan for $15 per month with unlimited talk and text and very limited data, and a free, brand-new smartphone that's at least twice as good as the old one I used to use.

When I had the trucking job, I was paying $70 per month for unlimited everything, which was fair, considering I was making good money.

[doorknob60]

How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.

The cheapest unlimited-everything plan I know of from T-Mobile is $60 per month.  If I could get it for $30, I'd be interested, but $60 is more than I want to spend when I no longer have a high-paying job.

Yeah, single lines from the big postpaid carriers are pretty high unless you find a good promotion (mine was Sprint Kickstart, they were trying to bolster their subscriber numbers before selling to T-Mobile so they offered a good deal). But you'd probably pay the same thing if you tried to open a new line for a flip phone. For single lines I'd usually recommend their prepaid services, or something like Metro, Cricket, Visible, or Mint. Lots of plans closer to the $30-40 range.

[zachary_amaryllis]

How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.

The cheapest unlimited-everything plan I know of from T-Mobile is $60 per month.  If I could get it for $30, I'd be interested, but $60 is more than I want to spend when I no longer have a high-paying job.

Yeah, single lines from the big postpaid carriers are pretty high unless you find a good promotion (mine was Sprint Kickstart, they were trying to bolster their subscriber numbers before selling to T-Mobile so they offered a good deal). But you'd probably pay the same thing if you tried to open a new line for a flip phone. For single lines I'd usually recommend their prepaid services, or something like Metro, Cricket, Visible, or Mint. Lots of plans closer to the $30-40 range.

walmart 'straight talk' isn't bad.. for me, $39 phone, $35/month for 5gb, and i rarely use anything close to it since the phone 'aggressively' seeks open wi-fi in town. for $55, you get 25gb and tethering.. cells don't work well at my house (i'm in a canyon)... probably not the latest/greatest phone (its an lg-something) but it works.

[kphoger]

I'm creating a bit of a headache at work.

We're currently switching payroll companies, and today was the first day of clocking in on the new site.  People clocking in on the smartphone app can only do so if their phone is located within a geofence (i.e., when they're here at the office).  Because I have a dumbphone, I clock in through their desktop website, and the site verifies my IP address before allowing me access.  Well, a recent firewall upgrade messed with my IP address, but we got that figured out.  However, the latest fun is that, in order to do part of my job, I have to lock my computer down on a VPN–and then I end up disallowed from accessing certain features of the payroll site because my IP address no longer matches what's on file.

[Ned Weasel]

I'm creating a bit of a headache at work.

We're currently switching payroll companies, and today was the first day of clocking in on the new site.  People clocking in on the smartphone app can only do so if their phone is located within a geofence (i.e., when they're here at the office).  Because I have a dumbphone, I clock in through their desktop website, and the site verifies my IP address before allowing me access.  Well, a recent firewall upgrade messed with my IP address, but we got that figured out.  However, the latest fun is that, in order to do part of my job, I have to lock my computer down on a VPN–and then I end up disallowed from accessing certain features of the payroll site because my IP address no longer matches what's on file.

For every problem computers solve, I have to wonder how many they create.

Actually, that's a bit hyperbolic.  The computers themselves aren't guilty since, absent some sort of sapient AI, they have no agency.  But people's reliance on computers sure causes problems, and worse, the reliance on software and the endless cycle of bugs and patches sure causes a ton of problems.

[kphoger]

Especially when they didn't even have to limit by access by IP to begin with.  That's an option.

[Scott5114]

In this case, the problem is probably management being cheap–every commercial payroll software package I know of (Kronos, Paycom) has the option of using a standalone card-swipe reader that records time punches. Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.

[kphoger]

In this case, the problem is probably management being cheap–every commercial payroll software package I know of (Kronos, Paycom) has the option of using a standalone card-swipe reader that records time punches. Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.

We haven't used an actual time clock for more than a decade.

And one of those companies you mentioned is the one we're switching to.

[webny99]

... Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.

True in most cases, but remote employees are a big exception. In addition to jobs that switched to remote during the pandemic, you've also got positions like traveling salesperson that may never have had an expectation of reporting to the office.

[JayhawkCO]

... Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.

True in most cases, but remote employees are a big exception. In addition to jobs that switched to remote during the pandemic, you've also got positions like traveling salesperson that may never have had an expectation of reporting to the office.

Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out.  I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.

Chris

[kphoger]

... Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.

True in most cases, but remote employees are a big exception. In addition to jobs that switched to remote during the pandemic, you've also got positions like traveling salesperson that may never have had an expectation of reporting to the office.

Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.

[Ned Weasel]

Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out.  I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.

I can't wait until I get a job that pays a real hourly wage again.  I refuse to take that salary nonsense if I have a choice.

But yeah, it would be nice if the time clock wasn't some cheap software system.  The last job where I got paid an hourly wage, the time clock was a website, and if it was down, you had to send something to your supervisor to let them know.  I also hope I can find a job where I'm not at a computer all day, but that's a whole other topic.

[kphoger]

Previously, I clocked in on a website that was developed by people within the company.  On the other hand, if the internet was down...  Well, then nearly everything I do is unavailable.  I access data through the web, our phones are VoIP, etc.

[webny99]

Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out.  I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.

Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.

Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.

[kphoger]

Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out.  I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.

Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.

Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.

No, what I meant is that only people who work in this physical building clock in and out at all.  And even many of them don't.

[JayhawkCO]

Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out.  I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.

Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.

Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.

I would say 99% of all salaried people don't have to clock in and out. 

Chris

[webny99]

Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out.  I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.

Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.

Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.

No, what I meant is that only people who work in this physical building clock in and out at all.  And even many of them don't.

Yeah, I knew what you meant... I was just suggesting a reason why some companies might still want their salaried employees to clock in and out.

I would say 99% of all salaried people don't have to clock in and out. 

I know it's common, but I don't think it's 99%. You'd think companies would start figuring out how much more productive people are when they're held accountable (of course, this applies to some positions more than others).

[Scott5114]

Out of curiosity, webny, what sorts of positions have you worked? I ask because there's a lot of things that seem like common sense in a working environment that end up actually being counterproductive.

For example, requiring salaried employees to clock in and out may just lead to them hanging out at the office when they have no tasks to do (out of a paranoia that they'll get in trouble for not having enough hours) and lead to them becoming resentful about the wasted time or burned out. Or encourage them to overwork themselves because they want to illustrate how hard they're working via their timesheets. There's other side effects too–my mom has been salaried for over a decade, and for a few months her job had salaried employees clock in and out (I think because of some fear that a DOL FLSA ruling applied to them that ended up not actually mattering). She previously had a spotless record, but ended up racking up a bunch of disciplinary actions against her because she kept forgetting to clock in or was late (she was accustomed to coming in whenever she felt like and staying a certain number of hours from her arrival time, which worked better for her because she's a department head in a 24-hour facility, so she liked to come in at different times so she could be available to employees on 2nd and 3rd shifts).

[J N Winkler]

I have had a smartphone since 2012 and have found it to be a very powerful tool for notetaking (using the phone camera), documenting travel (recording where and when I have gone, and logging mileage--my daily driver no longer has a functioning odometer), scouting dining and lodging opportunities when I am on the road, staying on top of my email, keeping up with the news, remaining in touch with friends through text messaging, checking the time, maintaining a travel diary without a laptop, and so on.  Very few of these functions can be replaced by a flip phone, which I have never owned.

This said, my computer at home remains the nerve center for serious work.  I hardly ever post on forums such as this one when I'm on a mobile device, for example, because it is much more difficult for me to maintain a local copy of each post.  I even try to avoid answering emails when I am out and about because it's extra hassle to maintain a local copy. (Google will deposit one in my Sent folder automatically, but that is on the cloud only--I have to send an email from Thunderbird on my local PC in order for copies to be deposited in both the online Sent folder and the local Sent Mail folder.  So if I send an email while out and about, I must manually copy it over to the Sent Mail folder in Thunderbird.)

I do agree that smartphones can exacerbate social media addiction by furnishing a convenient delivery system.  Though this may not be universally true, the main driver in my case is variable-interval reinforcement since the likes, comments, and other signifiers of positive engagement ("dopamine hits") come at unpredictable times.  I limit the platforms I interact with--I'm active on Facebook only (Myspace and Google+ are dead, and I hardly look at Twitter).  I also haven't installed the Facebook app on any mobile devices, though I have Messenger on a tablet, and am very aggressive about disabling lockscreen notifications.

I rarely carry my phone and hardly ever on my body.  It spends about 95% of the time on a charger within my sight, but not my reach, as I sit at my computer.  When I am out and about in my car, I usually leave it in the trunk unless I'm using it to communicate food orders.  I typically carry a book to read so I don't default to my phone to amuse myself while waiting.  My phone is hardly ever in my bedroom.

I've never been tempted to "live" on my phone since my working style depends very heavily on file choosers.  On my phone and tablet (both Android), I've had to install ES File Explorer (file chooser) and Android Terminal Emulator to make them tractable.  I've accepted that if I want to surf the Web on a mobile device, I will have to put up with a lot more advertising and unwanted website behavior, because it is much harder to install an ad-blocking HOSTS file (I think it can be done on Android without rooting, but requires developer tools).  Having given up on Microsoft Word long ago except for collaboration, I write mostly in plain text (I use LaTeX when I need rich formatting), and have struggled to find capable text editors for Android.  (I've settled on iA Writer as my Notepad++ killer.)

I also try to keep sustained screen-typing to a minimum on mobile devices, and have thus been around the block several times with Bluetooth keyboards.  I've never found a folding design with keys large enough for me to type in comfort, or sturdy enough to accommodate my ballistic typing style.  (At my computer I use a fairly heavy 102-key wireless keyboard that feels like a Model M clone--it's still going strong after 15 years, though the labeling on seven out of eight home keys is no longer legible.)  At one point I had a cheap Amazon Basics keyboard that worked tolerably well until the O key stopped responding (the word on StackExchange was something like "Don't bother us unless you're prepared to solder the circuit board").  Now I use a Logitech K480 that has heavy, sturdy construction, full-size keys, and an inset molded rail with rubber liner for holding uncased devices.  It works well, aside from a delay built into Shift that is just long enough to interfere with smooth typing.

[kphoger]

I have had a smartphone since 2012 and have found it to be a very powerful tool for ... documenting travel (recording where and when I have gone ...)

This is the feature I'll miss the most.  I used to use a GPS tracker app for road trips.  However, I was already realizing it was using too much data, so I would probably have been looking for an alternate solution anyway.

[webny99]

Out of curiosity, webny, what sorts of positions have you worked? I ask because there's a lot of things that seem like common sense in a working environment that end up actually being counterproductive.  ...

I've had a bit of experience across the spectrum, having worked first on a warehouse floor and now in an office job. My jobs have ranged from inventory control to billing to customer service (the latter only in a limited capacity). I've never been in sales or marketing, and may never be, since I'm fairly a fairly reserved and analytical guy - not a very good fit for customer facing jobs. So I suppose just by human nature I'm thinking critically about those who hold sales and marketing positions when I mention accountability, especially since those are the types of jobs that require a bit more intuition and give and take in terms of productivity and results.

I certainly take your point about the quest for accountability being counter-productive in certain contexts - but I get the sense the contexts you mention are mostly in an office or similar setting, while I'm thinking more about people that don't have to report in-person, such as a traveling salesperson. In that case, requiring them to clock in is more of a measure to make sure they feel responsible to actually be available and "working" (whatever that might involve) during normal business hours, and don't sleep just sleep in until noon or spend the afternoon at the beach just because they feel like it.

[Scott5114]

Sales jobs tend to–or at one point in the past tended to–enforce accountability through commission-based pay. Which makes sense; obviously a salesman who shows up on time every day, diligently puts in his hours, and never successfully convinces anyone to buy a damn thing is a total waste of money.

Marketing is a lot closer to your typical office job because it's more of a slow-burn, ongoing campaign, not something where you're face-to-face with a customer. Write copy for this week's mass sales email, design this advertisement, look at the numbers and see which ads are converting to sales and which need to be pulled or replaced. Marketing is a lot more analytical than sales; over the long term you're basically trying different things and seeing which ones cause the sales figures to increase and which don't.

[Scott5114]

...(Kronos, Paycom)...

We haven't used an actual time clock for more than a decade.

And one of those companies you mentioned is the one we're switching to.

I hope for your sake it's Paycom. At the casino they used Kronos and it was a dinosaur. Clearly written by salaried employees...