I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)

[Bruce]

New video flyovers of the proposed options: https://bikeportland.org/2024/10/15/new-videos-show-what-i-5-freeway-expansion-over-columbia-river-would-look-like-390582

Interchanges

Sigle-level, Fixed-span Steel Girder Bridges

Single-level, Fixed-span Extradosed Bridges

Double-deck, Fixed-span Truss Bridges

[pderocco]

Even though Hayden Island is in Oregon, these designs make it more accessible from Washington. You'd think they'd have been able to weave freeway ramps from Oregon to N Hayden Island Dr., making it symmetric with the freeway ramps from Washington to Jantzen Ave, instead of building a separate 2-lane bridge accessible only through two roundabouts that will leave you dizzy.

[Bruce]

Even though Hayden Island is in Oregon, these designs make it more accessible from Washington. You'd think they'd have been able to weave freeway ramps from Oregon to N Hayden Island Dr., making it symmetric with the freeway ramps from Washington to Jantzen Ave, instead of building a separate 2-lane bridge accessible only through two roundabouts that will leave you dizzy.

The main draws to Jantzen Beach are the retailers who are courting Washington shoppers by being close enough to the state line. There's not a lot of room to build all the ramps needed, so prioritizing Washington makes sense.

[pderocco]

Even though Hayden Island is in Oregon, these designs make it more accessible from Washington. You'd think they'd have been able to weave freeway ramps from Oregon to N Hayden Island Dr., making it symmetric with the freeway ramps from Washington to Jantzen Ave, instead of building a separate 2-lane bridge accessible only through two roundabouts that will leave you dizzy.

The main draws to Jantzen Beach are the retailers who are courting Washington shoppers by being close enough to the state line. There's not a lot of room to build all the ramps needed, so prioritizing Washington makes sense.

Sort of like Nevada casinos along the California border.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Ugh. Feels like this gets brought up whenever someone discusses the Interstate Bridge. It's been proposed for so long and yet it always seems to get pushed behind because something more "important" pops up(Specifically, the fact that it's always proposed with either light rail, a flawed design, or no interchange accommodation for both sides of the bridge if you know what I mean) I think it's needed, the Interstate Bridge is so worn down and isn't suitable for the amount of traffic that's heading north to Washington on I-5. There's always so much traffic heading onto the bridge especially going northbound, which causes frequent traffic jams.

Reading this thread from time to time has been interesting, especially seeing other forum users opinions on the current project at hand.

[xonhulu]

RoadGuyRob returns with part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRlZwDQUa9A

[Plutonic Panda]

Ugh, more bickering about the light rail aspect of this project:

https://www.opb.org/article/2025/03/12/clark-county-transit-punts-decision-i-5-bridge-light-rail-funding/

[The Ghostbuster]

Does the bridge really need a light rail line? I'd build the bridge without it, and add it later if both sides agree to it (although personally, I'd prefer a bus rapid transit line to a light rail line on the bridge).

[Bruce]

Does the bridge really need a light rail line? I'd build the bridge without it, and add it later if both sides agree to it (although personally, I'd prefer a bus rapid transit line to a light rail line on the bridge).

Yes, it does need light rail. It would be absurd to not include light rail from the start, because retrofitting it would be more expensive and more disruptive all around. The MAX Yellow Line has been prepared to run all the way across the river for decades now, and the new bridge's highway lanes will 100% become congested at peak hours as soon as it opens.

BRT doesn't work for a short shuttle that would force people to transfer twice within a 15-minute (or longer, because bridge traffic) period. People prefer a two-seat ride at most, and rail is more comfortable for the longest section of the ride.

Luckily the conflict right now is just over operations funding rather than the concept of light rail. If TriMet could throw C-Tran a bone and defer some of the costs, it'll get built.

[PColumbus73]

What if there was a parallel 'local' bridge for Hayden Island, allowing I-5 to go straight across with no exit? The local connection could be built as an arterial road and connect back to I-5 at either end of the river.

Or a double decked bridge with I-5 on the upper level and the Hayden Island connection on the lower level?

[Bruce]

What if there was a parallel 'local' bridge for Hayden Island, allowing I-5 to go straight across with no exit? The local connection could be built as an arterial road and connect back to I-5 at either end of the river.

That is already part of the plan, but there is enough demand from Vancouverites to visit Hayden Island that prevents the removal of those exits.

Or a double decked bridge with I-5 on the upper level and the Hayden Island connection on the lower level?

The bridge cannot be made taller due to the nearby airport and the need for more clearance for certain sizes of ships. A thinner deck works best to fit in these constraints.

[Sub-Urbanite]

What if there was a parallel 'local' bridge for Hayden Island, allowing I-5 to go straight across with no exit? The local connection could be built as an arterial road and connect back to I-5 at either end of the river.

Or a double decked bridge with I-5 on the upper level and the Hayden Island connection on the lower level?

This is exactly what makes this project so complicated. It really is the Goldilocks bridge.

• The bridge has to be tall enough to get Coast Guard approval for river traffic clearance
• But, it must be short enough to not present a hazard for planes using nearby Pearson Airfield
• But it can't have a lift section
• But it also can't be in a tunnel, because it would be too steep to get back up to grade level on the Washington side and serve downtown Vancouver
• But it also can't be too steep as a bridge, because the bicyclists don't want to bike up a mountain
• It has to make the environmentally-conscious Oregon governments happy, which means it has to have both light rail and a minimal amount of car lanes (right now 3 through, 1 aux) and decent bike/ped facilities
• But it has to also make Clark County happy, and people there are overwhelmingly driving to Portland when they commute
• At the same time, it has to connect to two freeways on the Vancouver side and a large port on the Oregon side
• It has to be affordable to one state that has no sales tax and one that has no income tax
• It has to offer connectivity to Washingtonians shopping at Hayden Island
• But it also has to be responsive to Hayden Island residents who don't love that their community is a giant shopping mall for out-of-staters

Did I forget anything?

[Bruce]

Did I forget anything?

The cherry on top: it has to be ready-to-build within a few years due to the expiration of certain federal approvals from the last attempt.

[vdeane]

• It has to make the environmentally-conscious Oregon governments happy, which means it has to have both light rail and a minimal amount of car lanes (right now 3 through, 1 aux) and decent bike/ped facilities
• But it has to also make Clark County happy, and people there are overwhelmingly driving to Portland when they commute

The light rail would help with that, but there seems to be a large contingent of people who are ideologically opposed to using any mode other than driving.  I can understand it with us roadgeeks, but not with everyone else, at least not when it gets to the point of improving other modes to fix the things that currently make driving much more appealing.  It's as if people like being stuck in congestion (while one can argue about most places, at least for the short/medium term, we also see these battles in places like NYC where nobody in their right mind would argue that congestion can be resolved entirely with car infrastructure).

[Sub-Urbanite]

• It has to make the environmentally-conscious Oregon governments happy, which means it has to have both light rail and a minimal amount of car lanes (right now 3 through, 1 aux) and decent bike/ped facilities
• But it has to also make Clark County happy, and people there are overwhelmingly driving to Portland when they commute

The light rail would help with that, but there seems to be a large contingent of people who are ideologically opposed to using any mode other than driving.  I can understand it with us roadgeeks, but not with everyone else, at least not when it gets to the point of improving other modes to fix the things that currently make driving much more appealing.  It's as if people like being stuck in congestion (while one can argue about most places, at least for the short/medium term, we also see these battles in places like NYC where nobody in their right mind would argue that congestion can be resolved entirely with car infrastructure).

I think people think the cost / ROI are pretty high for the short extension, and have concerns about perceived crime on light rail. (MAX isn't the most comfortable experience post-COVID as far as crime goes, but it's not like a lot of folks are breaking into a house, stealing your TVs and then carrying them to the chop shop on light rail)

IMHO it would be different if MAX moved quicker. It's a half hour to go 10 miles from downtown Vancouver to downtown Portland. A 10 mile trip on Link in Seattle is roughly 20 minutes.

[pderocco]

• It has to make the environmentally-conscious Oregon governments happy, which means it has to have both light rail and a minimal amount of car lanes (right now 3 through, 1 aux) and decent bike/ped facilities
• But it has to also make Clark County happy, and people there are overwhelmingly driving to Portland when they commute

The light rail would help with that, but there seems to be a large contingent of people who are ideologically opposed to using any mode other than driving.  I can understand it with us roadgeeks, but not with everyone else, at least not when it gets to the point of improving other modes to fix the things that currently make driving much more appealing.  It's as if people like being stuck in congestion (while one can argue about most places, at least for the short/medium term, we also see these battles in places like NYC where nobody in their right mind would argue that congestion can be resolved entirely with car infrastructure).

I used to live in that area back in the 90s. My problem with light rail is that unless you're really lucky, it doesn't take you to your actual destination. A connecting bus will get you closer, but that's another wait. Eventually, you have to walk a significant distance, and because it's Portland, it's raining. I don't want to walk further than half way across the parking lot.

[xonhulu]

I used to live in that area back in the 90s. My problem with light rail is that unless you're really lucky, it doesn't take you to your actual destination. A connecting bus will get you closer, but that's another wait. Eventually, you have to walk a significant distance, and because it's Portland, it's raining. I don't want to walk further than half way across the parking lot.

For the times I've ridden the MAX light rail, it was great if we were going to a specific destination that MAX directly serves, like the airport, zoo, Moda Center (the Trail Blazers' arena), Providence Park (the Timbers' soccer stadium), etc. 

Otherwise, you're right, you'll have to walk a few blocks, like when we hit the Brewfest every year at Waterfront Park. So not great on a rainy day, tolerable on a nice day.

I will say that I've always ridden in from Beaverton, where my brother lives, and leaving the car in the station parking lot out there beats the hell out of finding parking downtown, especially for the sporting events.

[Plutonic Panda]

Project costs went up but Washington is trying to cover the shortfall and the project could finished by 2031. Groundbreaking could happen by 2026:

https://washingtonstatestandard.com/2025/04/08/inflation-worries-drive-wa-lawmakers-to-jack-up-i-5-bridge-borrowing-plan-by-900m/

[pderocco]

Project costs went up but Washington is trying to cover the shortfall and the project could finished by 2031. Groundbreaking could happen by 2026:

https://washingtonstatestandard.com/2025/04/08/inflation-worries-drive-wa-lawmakers-to-jack-up-i-5-bridge-borrowing-plan-by-900m/

Really nice pic on that article.

[The Ghostbuster]

Just build the damn new bridge already! It has been delayed long enough. Are they waiting for the existing bridge to fall into the Columbia River? Stop bickering and start constructing.

[Sub-Urbanite]

Just build the damn new bridge already! It has been delayed long enough. Are they waiting for the existing bridge to fall into the Columbia River? Stop bickering and start constructing.

Never doubt Oregon's ability to make the perfect the enemy of the good

[Bruce]

Just build the damn new bridge already! It has been delayed long enough. Are they waiting for the existing bridge to fall into the Columbia River? Stop bickering and start constructing.

That's not how environmental review works. Expect a million lawsuits if the design is not the result of a proper compromise that satisfies most of the affected parties and stakeholders.

If the feds wanted the project to speed up, they could offer actual incentives. Operational funds for MAX would solve one of the major remaining issues.

[pderocco]

Just build the damn new bridge already! It has been delayed long enough. Are they waiting for the existing bridge to fall into the Columbia River? Stop bickering and start constructing.

That's not how environmental review works. Expect a million lawsuits if the design is not the result of a proper compromise that satisfies most of the affected parties and stakeholders.

If the feds wanted the project to speed up, they could offer actual incentives. Operational funds for MAX would solve one of the major remaining issues.

Operational funds? You mean like--forever?

[Plutonic Panda]

Max needs to fund their own operations.

[vdeane]

It's not all that unusual for new transit service to have operational expenses subsidized for the first few years when it opens.  It's happened where I live for the past couple new BRT lines.