Chick-Fil-A and the NY Thruway

[1995hoo]

Yeah, after reading all that, having different transponders is a pain.

I had enough grief having my transponder in a rental and it not getting read for one toll down in FL last month, let alone worrying about double charges due to having more than one transponder in the car or no charges for whatever other reason.

But hey, got that stupid convenience fee refunded, so that was a win.

The lack of "good read" feedback at more and more toll gantries is a real pain in the butt.

Some of them that offer feedback make it hard to tell what it is. On Saturday night, I used the Dulles Toll Road en route both to and from a restaurant, and on the way out when I exited, there was a bright flash and the display at the toll plaza displayed some sort of message in red that I was unable to read. On the way back home, I proceeded a lot more slowly (maybe 10–15 mph) and got the bright flash again and saw that the red message simply said "EZPASS PAID." Damn annoying to display confirmation of that sort in bright red text the color of a red traffic light. I associate red with a problem (in the old days of shared E-ZPass/exact change lanes, I associated a red light with the transponder not being read), which is why I went slowly on the way home—I assumed there was an error message or similar and I wanted to see what the message said so I'd know whether I needed to replace the transponder or similar.

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

[deathtopumpkins]

I have multiple tags (MA, NH, ME, TX, FL, CA). It's no real trouble at all to keep them in the glovebox or center console and swap them on the fly. You generally have plenty of time in between different agencies' tolls, not like you're swapping transponders every 5 minutes. It's generally worth it to get the in-state discount if you travel through a state with any regularity, as most are free or cheap enough that you can pay off the extra cost relatively quickly in savings.

HOWEVER, I have begun to run into issues lately with wider adoption of toll-by-plate, particularly in NY and FL - it seems random which agency gets the plate toll if your transponder doesn't get read for whatever reason and your license plate gets looked up instead. I've actually had NYSTA correctly charge the NH transponder I had mounted at the time, but simultaneously bill MA based on looking up my (NH) license plate for the same toll. And disputing toll charges in this situation does work, but is a hassle that (in MA's case) involved physically mailing a letter along with statement copies, and can take months.

I'm debating whether to try and pick up a NYSTA transponder on my next trip through the state, or to just start shunpiking the thruway entirely based on these experiences, the fact that transactions take 2 months to post, and the skyrocketing toll rates.

I don't get why they would look up the plate if a transponder was charged.

Neither do I, and yet, here we are.

For the record I've never had two transponders both get read - only one transponder + a license plate toll, so I think the bags are doing their job, NYSTA's system is just garbage.

[Jim]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

It would be their pleasure.  Except on Sundays.

[kalvado]

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

[jeffandnicole]

I've noticed on various "Facebook Recommends this" posts that numerous publications have picked up on the CFA story, all of which have the misleading headline "CFA may be required to open on Sundays", and a few also link the bill to CFAs operated under PANYNJ contracts (I'm not sure if there are any, and the stories related to the PA seem to be a bit vague).  Depending on the story, it may or may not include the notice that it's for future contracts, not current contracts.  They also made a connection to the NJTA operated CFAs, of which the NY bill will have no effect on.

[hbelkins]

I originally saw the story on a Louisville TV station's Web site (and Twitter feed). The link I posted was from a Lexington TV station.

[kalvado]

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

[LilianaUwU]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

[kalvado]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

[The Nature Boy]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

Interstate 86 would be a lot busier with through traffic, that's for sure.

[LilianaUwU]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

The New York Times is already braindead enough in its reporting.

[kalvado]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

The New York Times is already braindead enough in its reporting.

So braindead reporting with chicken sandwich and fries. Any drinks with that?

[jeffandnicole]

IMO Chick-fil-A should have authority over the NYT.

Imagine the Sunday traffic on local roads when the Thruway is inevitably closed on that day.

I am pretty sure this was about the New York Times, not about the road.

Oh no...if there's no New York Times on Sunday, what are cruciverbalists going to do without their Sunday crossword puzzle?

(Yeah, I found that word.  Not in my normal vocabulary)

[1995hoo]

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I don't love the idea of anything that might prompt drivers to look at their phones while driving, although the idea of getting some sort of confirmation is certainly useful. In the same vein, and getting somewhat off topic here, I've occasionally thought that when the time comes to replace our laundry machine, I want the next one to have the capability of either sending you a text message or otherwise pinging a notification via an app to tell you when the laundry is done. With our current machine, I set a timer, but the time the machine shows is only an estimate and it's usually on the low side.

[kalvado]

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I don't love the idea of anything that might prompt drivers to look at their phones while driving, although the idea of getting some sort of confirmation is certainly useful. In the same vein, and getting somewhat off topic here, I've occasionally thought that when the time comes to replace our laundry machine, I want the next one to have the capability of either sending you a text message or otherwise pinging a notification via an app to tell you when the laundry is done. With our current machine, I set a timer, but the time the machine shows is only an estimate and it's usually on the low side.

I wonder if that would be available as a commercial upgrade for any machine. I can certainly think of a way to do that DYI for less than $10 using an ESP32 controller. 

[jmacswimmer]

For the record I've never had two transponders both get read - only one transponder + a license plate toll, so I think the bags are doing their job, NYSTA's system is just garbage.

The only time I've ever had this happen was at the Bay Bridge in early 2021, around when MDTA replaced their E-ZPass website - a trip over the Bay Bridge in March posted via transponder the same day. The old ezpassmd.com was replaced with driveezmd.com in late April, then a month later in May the same trip from March posted again via license plate. Presumably a glitch that happened during the website changeover, but luckily MDTA has since gotten their tolling operations back together following the weeks-long posting lags that occurred from that website changeover into fall 2022.

As for the Thruway - I may pick up a NYSTA on-the-go tag whenever I'm next in New York State, and with the way my travels usually go I should typically be able to leave the other tag at home and not have to play tag roulette while on the road. The Tappan Zee Bridge is the NYSTA toll point I hit the most frequently, so getting almost half off with the NYSTA tag might just be worth it over time.

Some of them that offer feedback make it hard to tell what it is. On Saturday night, I used the Dulles Toll Road en route both to and from a restaurant, and on the way out when I exited, there was a bright flash and the display at the toll plaza displayed some sort of message in red that I was unable to read. On the way back home, I proceeded a lot more slowly (maybe 10–15 mph) and got the bright flash again and saw that the red message simply said "EZPASS PAID." Damn annoying to display confirmation of that sort in bright red text the color of a red traffic light. I associate red with a problem (in the old days of shared E-ZPass/exact change lanes, I associated a red light with the transponder not being read), which is why I went slowly on the way home—I assumed there was an error message or similar and I wanted to see what the message said so I'd know whether I needed to replace the transponder or similar.

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

I experienced the same thing earlier this month at the New Hope-Lambertville Toll Bridge - the front plate camera is mounted on the same pole as the feedback screen, and the flash was so bright that I couldn't make out what the feedback screen said (also in red text). Coincidentally, the equipment the DTR & DRJTBC use look awfully similar.

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry, as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

[kalvado]

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry, as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

[jmacswimmer]

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry, as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Your post reminded me (and now I'm just plain curious as well) - a few years back, MDTA replaced all the tag readers along the ICC from a much smaller rectangle (can't tell if they were also Kapsch or not) to the same-sized Kapsch readers I linked in the Thruway & Masspike examples. It also looks like the PTC did the exact same replacement at the Gateway & Delaware River Bridge gantries - now I wonder whether or not this is related to future interoperability as you mention.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like PTC has now switched to TransCore at some of their newest gantries - the new Warrendale gantry, as well as 2 of the 3 Southern Beltway gantries (the gantry along the older stretch from I-376 to US 22 still has Kapsch) appear to have the same TransCore readers that the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike have.

[vdeane]

I believe the eventual goal for E-ZPass is to be able to accept 6C transponders in addition to their own.  This has already come up with Peach Pass.

https://peachpass.com/e-zpass/

I might suggest that "bad" or "confusing" transponder feedback can be every bit as problematic as, or possibly worse than, no feedback at all.

Imagine how much better things would be if we lived in a first world country, where toll technology is less than 40 years old and things like SMS notifications can be implemented...

I don't love the idea of anything that might prompt drivers to look at their phones while driving, although the idea of getting some sort of confirmation is certainly useful. In the same vein, and getting somewhat off topic here, I've occasionally thought that when the time comes to replace our laundry machine, I want the next one to have the capability of either sending you a text message or otherwise pinging a notification via an app to tell you when the laundry is done. With our current machine, I set a timer, but the time the machine shows is only an estimate and it's usually on the low side.

It's not unprecedented.  The Thruway replaced their highway advisory radio system with an app, for instance.

[7/8]

I'll go ahead and say it.  Between the concession "rebuilds and changes" and the EZPass situation that begins in 8 days, it's very clear that the Thruway Authority doesn't care about travelers...only their toll dollars.

Welcome to the world of business.
What's the deal with ezpass though?

The Thruway is eliminating the out of state E-ZPass rate when the toll increase goes into effect.  Starting 1/1/24, those without a NY E-ZPass will be stuck paying the bill by mail rate, same as if they didn't have an E-ZPass at all.

They don't vote here anyway

One does not need to reside or vote in NY to obtain a NY EZ Pass.

Strictly speaking, no.  But I know from personal experience that if you use a non-NY address to get a NY EZPass, they automatically give you a PANYNJ tag.  Which, of course, subejcts one to the monthly service fee for PANYNJ tags.

No, you just pick one up in person and then you get the one of your choice.

I *DID* pick mine up in person.  Was forced to a PA tag because I didn't have a NY address.

Interesting, I believe mine is a standard NY pass (see photo below) and I used a Canadian address*. I ordered it online and it arrived at my house. It also has no monthly fees.

* I think I used a NY zip code since they wouldn't accept a Canadian postal code. Maybe that's why that worked?

[ran4sh]

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry, as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Your post reminded me (and now I'm just plain curious as well) - a few years back, MDTA replaced all the tag readers along the ICC from a much smaller rectangle (can't tell if they were also Kapsch or not) to the same-sized Kapsch readers I linked in the Thruway & Masspike examples. It also looks like the PTC did the exact same replacement at the Gateway & Delaware River Bridge gantries - now I wonder whether or not this is related to future interoperability as you mention.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like PTC has now switched to TransCore at some of their newest gantries - the new Warrendale gantry, as well as 2 of the 3 Southern Beltway gantries (the gantry along the older stretch from I-376 to US 22 still has Kapsch) appear to have the same TransCore readers that the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike have.

I wonder if these transponder model differences have any correlation with which states currently do and do not accept Georgia Peach Pass (which is now an E-ZPass member). Peach Pass is accepted in, for example, MD, RI, ME, but some E-ZPass states such as NJ, PA, etc do not currently accept them (see https://peachpass.com/e-zpass/ )

[kalvado]

Oh, by the way.. does anyone knows what kind of transponder readers are installed on Thruway / Masspike AET systems? Something multiprotocol, or EZ-pass specific?

This might not really answer your question, but FWIW: zooming in at the Masspike's Charlton gantry & the Thruway's Canaan gantry (the first 2 I thought of) shows that they are manufactured by Kapsch, which is also what the MDTA has used at their new AET gantries (here's the Bay Bridge gantry, as an example). For comparison, a quick peek at the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike shows their readers are manufactured by TransCore, but beyond all that I know nothing about any potential interoperability (or lack thereof) between Kapsch & TransCore products.

Actually I did some digging, thanks to @J N Winkler for guidance.
Yes, Thruway specifies Kapsch antenna - but I couldn't find a spec for the reader. However, Kapsch only sells one reader model - which supports multiprotocol processing out of the box.  I wonder if AET transition had a second goal of purging out old TDM-only equipment?
So while Thruway doesn't accept anything but EZpass (TDM) at this point, they now have the interoperability hardware to support many other systems. Old CA Title21 is not supported, for example, but CA is switching to 6C standard, phasing out T21.

So my gut feeling more interoperability - potentially nationwide - is in the works. 6C seems to be the likely winner. And a new EZpass standard may be coming.

Your post reminded me (and now I'm just plain curious as well) - a few years back, MDTA replaced all the tag readers along the ICC from a much smaller rectangle (can't tell if they were also Kapsch or not) to the same-sized Kapsch readers I linked in the Thruway & Masspike examples. It also looks like the PTC did the exact same replacement at the Gateway & Delaware River Bridge gantries - now I wonder whether or not this is related to future interoperability as you mention.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like PTC has now switched to TransCore at some of their newest gantries - the new Warrendale gantry, as well as 2 of the 3 Southern Beltway gantries (the gantry along the older stretch from I-376 to US 22 still has Kapsch) appear to have the same TransCore readers that the Kansas Turnpike & Turner Turnpike have.

I wonder if these transponder model differences have any correlation with which states currently do and do not accept Georgia Peach Pass (which is now an E-ZPass member). Peach Pass is accepted in, for example, MD, RI, ME, but some E-ZPass states such as NJ, PA, etc do not currently accept them (see https://peachpass.com/e-zpass/ )

Well, point is NYSTA now has technical capability  to deal with those poachy tags. That wasn't the case until 2021 or so.

[hbelkins]

Since this has now turned into an E-ZPass discussion, anyone have the scoop on the best place to get a tag these days?

I just renewed my West Virginia tag (at $26.25, up from $25 last year, but it includes unlimited free passage on the WV Turnpike) and am contemplating scrapping it in favor of a plan with no annual fees. I've been looking at RiverLink but I'm not sure if that would be the best bet for me. Transponder discrimination is real.

[ran4sh]

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not really. You seem to be thinking that there would just be 2 tolls, the toll going there and the toll returning. But you also have to include the tolls incurred during the stay in the toll road region. For example, usually when I stay in the Northeast we use a toll road for about 2 or 3 trips per day. Sure we could use an alternative route, but it would be much more convenient to just pay the toll and be entitled to the discounts offered.

[jeffandnicole]

I mostly agree, but the thing that screws travelers like me (live in a non-toll area and only visits the Northeast every 4-5 years or so) is that while I would be ok with getting a specific E-ZPass to take advantage of transponder discrimination, most agencies don't allow that kind of inactivity on their account and will either charge a fee or cancel an account for inactivity.

If you are talking about so infrequent situations, extra toll is pretty much a rounding error for planning that trip...

Not really. You seem to be thinking that there would just be 2 tolls, the toll going there and the toll returning. But you also have to include the tolls incurred during the stay in the toll road region. For example, usually when I stay in the Northeast we use a toll road for about 2 or 3 trips per day. Sure we could use an alternative route, but it would be much more convenient to just pay the toll and be entitled to the discounts offered.

It'll depend on where you're vacationing.  If you're doing Toll-by-Plate vs EZ Pass, yeah, that's significant.  If you have an EZ Pass but worried about $5 a day, maybe stay at a place more convenient to where you're not worrying about a minor discount on tolling.