Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route

[ilpt4u]

^^^^ Those signs were covered, up thread

But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.

Yes there is. First is on mainline I-24, about 1 mile or so before route termination @ I-57

Second is on mainline I-57, just north of the I-24 end, after I-24 traffic has joined I-57

Crediting billburmaster.com for both photos

The first BGS is really the only IDOT/IL acknowledgement of I-24 West having a Control of St Louis

I think there is something to the idea of maybe extenting I-24 West to the I-57/I-64 south side interchange in Mt Vernon, and give the Marion-Mt Vernon segment of I-57 Dual Controls of Chicago-St Louis NB/WB and Memphis-Nashville SB/EB. I am generally not a fan of a multiplex to just terminate further upstream without a divergence, but in this instance, I think there is actually utility to do it, since this stretch of I-57 really is a dual-route of NE-SW movements and NW-SE movements

[hobsini2]

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.

Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster, on the other hand...

I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.

I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.

Actually, that is not entirely true. Texarkana has a "Bi-State Justice Center where the state line goes through the building.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.420765,-94.0443503,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en
This is also true with the train station (1 block south) and US District Court (4 blocks north).
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.4253149,-94.0435964,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en

[Thing 342]

Philadelphia was listed as a control for US-13 NB on this now-former sign on the southernmost tunnel island (since removed along with the pier and store to make way for parallel tunnel construction), skipping MD and DE: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9643394,-76.1133732,3a,15y,181.57h,99.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz6d6cEP9PsXqlphwdjM1Gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[ethanhopkin14]

Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles.  Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city.  (I-15 and I-10)

[Roadgeekteen]

Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles.  Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city.  (I-15 and I-10)

St. Louis on I-24?

[ethanhopkin14]

Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles.  Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city.  (I-15 and I-10)

St. Louis on I-24?

That works.  Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.

The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town.  I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona.  Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs.  Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona.  You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio. 

[debragga]

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.

I-49 doesn't go through Texas (yet), and even when it does, it won't go through Texarkana TX city limits, so if it's referring to one or the other, it's definitely Arkansas.

[sprjus4]

Philadelphia was listed as a control for US-13 NB on this now-former sign on the southernmost tunnel island (since removed along with the pier and store to make way for parallel tunnel construction), skipping MD and DE: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9643394,-76.1133732,3a,15y,181.57h,99.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz6d6cEP9PsXqlphwdjM1Gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I completely forgot about this one. Shame to see it gone, and hopefully they'll put another one up, though I doubt it. Probably the furthest out control city anywhere in the Hampton Roads area.

[MikieTimT]

Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.

Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.

Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.

They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster, on the other hand...

I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.

I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.

Actually, that is not entirely true. Texarkana has a "Bi-State Justice Center where the state line goes through the building.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.420765,-94.0443503,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en
This is also true with the train station (1 block south) and US District Court (4 blocks north).
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.4253149,-94.0435964,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en

The two police departments also share a building that straddles the border and often work together on cases, especially since all it takes to cross jurisdictions is to step across the center line of Stateline Avenue.  There's a shared jail that, if you are unlucky enough to be a resident of, qualifies you to be incarcerated in both states simultaneously by law, to prevent having to extradite every time they are moved from one part to the other.  Also, share a water department and a Chamber of Commerce. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles.  Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city.  (I-15 and I-10)

St. Louis on I-24?

That works.  Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.

The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town.  I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona.  Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs.  Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona.  You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.

California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.

[ethanhopkin14]

Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles.  Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city.  (I-15 and I-10)

St. Louis on I-24?

That works.  Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.

The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town.  I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona.  Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs.  Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona.  You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.

California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.

I think it's because those California signs are so so old, they date back to a time when Phoenix was a far away good-sized town, not the mega powerhouse it is today.  Either that or California is another state that doesn't like to mention anything outside it's state borders on it's signs. 

I-8 is similar.  from it's eastern terminus at Casa Grande at I-10, the westbound control city in perpetuity is San Diego.  Eastbound from San Diego, control cities are El Cajon and El Centro, then finally, Winterhaven, not Yuma.  Then past Yuma, Tucson is the Control City along with Gila Bend.

[GaryA]

That works.  Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.

The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town.  I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona.  Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs.  Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona.  You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.

California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.

I think it's because those California signs are so so old, they date back to a time when Phoenix was a far away good-sized town, not the mega powerhouse it is today.  Either that or California is another state that doesn't like to mention anything outside it's state borders on it's signs. 

I-8 is similar.  from it's eastern terminus at Casa Grande at I-10, the westbound control city in perpetuity is San Diego.  Eastbound from San Diego, control cities are El Cajon and El Centro, then finally, Winterhaven, not Yuma.  Then past Yuma, Tucson is the Control City along with Gila Bend.

California used to be very much against using out-of-state control cities; they've gotten somewhat better about it.

I once thought, growing up, that places like Truckee, Blythe, and Needles must be important cities because they were on all the highway signs.  If I recall correctly, on my first drive out to Las Vegas (early 80s), you didn't see a sign referencing LV until Baker (if then).

Nowadays, Reno is the control city on I-80 starting at Sacramento, and Vegas is mentioned on I-15 at least from I-10.  But I think Phoenix may still be just one of the "other Desert Cities".

[I-55]

I-22 in Birmingham uses Memphis as the westbound control city, skipping Mississippi, though interchanges in Walker and Marion counties use a combination of either Hamilton or Tupelo. That makes 3 routes (I-22, I-55, I-57 that have Memphis as the control city from 2 states out. And if I-69 south out of Evansville uses Memphis it will be 4.

[ethanhopkin14]

That works.  Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.

The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town.  I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona.  Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs.  Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona.  You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.

California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.

I think it's because those California signs are so so old, they date back to a time when Phoenix was a far away good-sized town, not the mega powerhouse it is today.  Either that or California is another state that doesn't like to mention anything outside it's state borders on it's signs. 

I-8 is similar.  from it's eastern terminus at Casa Grande at I-10, the westbound control city in perpetuity is San Diego.  Eastbound from San Diego, control cities are El Cajon and El Centro, then finally, Winterhaven, not Yuma.  Then past Yuma, Tucson is the Control City along with Gila Bend.

California used to be very much against using out-of-state control cities; they've gotten somewhat better about it.

I once thought, growing up, that places like Truckee, Blythe, and Needles must be important cities because they were on all the highway signs.  If I recall correctly, on my first drive out to Las Vegas (early 80s), you didn't see a sign referencing LV until Baker (if then).

Nowadays, Reno is the control city on I-80 starting at Sacramento, and Vegas is mentioned on I-15 at least from I-10.  But I think Phoenix may still be just one of the "other Desert Cities".

I feel your pain.  Growing up in Texas, another state that's not so excited about signing destinations outside the state, I really didn't get to know too much about the world outside Texas (compounded by me growing up in central Texas were it takes you forever to get even close to a state line).  Now there are exceptions: I-20 east of Dallas has Shreveport as a control city, I-10 east of Beaumont has Lake Charles, I-35 southbound just north of Laredo having a distance sign to Monterey, but the one glaring one I can remember it I-35E in downtown Dallas being signed north for a control city of Denton.  I always felt Denton could be skipped and have gone straight to Oklahoma City.  Most state and US highways in Texas don't mention cities outside Texas, and if they do, it's with the obligatory " Clovis, NM"  kinda gives you the impression of "I didn't want to mention this city, but I feel obligated to, and I want you to know, it's not our city!"  I know a lot of states do that, but Texas is pretty consistent on if they finally get around to telling you about a town out of it's borders, they totally say, I don't take ownership of this place. 

[roadman]

End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.

As does I-95 south in RI, both in Providence and going south of there.

[roadman]

The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted

So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.

That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

The worst is/was pre-MUTCD when the states were signed with a capital first letter and a small second letter.  MassDOT and RIDOT would sign Hartford as "Hartford Ct", which suggests there is street named Hartford Court off that exit (clipped) but at least those have been corrected.

Including state abbreviations with out of state control cities has never been either a MUTCD requirement or recommendation.  And you are correct, the last examples of mixed-case state abbreviations in Massachusetts on Interstate and freeway guide signs were eliminated as part of the sign update projects done within the last decade, although there may be a few stragglers out there on secondary road "paddle" signs.

One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.  The use of "New York" as a control on I-90 West in a couple of places in Boston (near the Hynes Convention Center and formerly at the 128 junction) is kind of ambiguous, since you would follow I-90 West to a point to get to both NY City and NY state.  In the case of the former, you would have to travel through CT to get there, unless you took the Mass Pike to the Berkshire Spur and either went down the Taconic or the Thruway (the latter may even include a jog into NJ if you take 17/80 (or 4)/95, or the Palisades to the GWB).     

Apart from one or two signs within Downtown Boston that still say New York, the 'long distance' control city on signs along and for I-90/MassPike west is now Albany NY.  The control cities on I-90/MassPike for I-84 in Sturbridge are Hartford CT and NY City (obviously, NY City NY would be redundant).

[Roadgeekteen]

End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.

As does I-95 south in RI, both in Providence and going south of there.

Rhode Island should also put New London on signs.

[KCRoadFan]

In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.

Why is it that the I-95 signs in Maryland don't mention Philly? I'm guessing it's because they intend to direct NYC traffic via the Delaware Memorial Bridge and the Turnpike, I suppose.

[roadman]

End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.

As does I-95 south in RI, both in Providence and going south of there.

Rhode Island should also put New London on signs.

Yes.  Use NY City for the far control city, and alternate New London and New Haven for the near control city.

[KCRoadFan]

New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.

Minnesota is a lot like that too. On I-35 south of the Twin Cities, the control city is consistently Albert Lea, right up to the town itself. Des Moines isn’t even mentioned until after Albert Lea.

Also, on I-94 west of St. Cloud, using Moorhead as a control city instead of the adjacent, and larger, city of Fargo, ND. (The distance signs alternate between Moorhead and Fargo, which are pretty much the same mileage, but I think the signs at the westbound on-ramps tend to use Moorhead; I’ve also seen on-ramp signs with Alexandria on them.)

[thspfc]

New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.

Minnesota is a lot like that too. On I-35 south of the Twin Cities, the control city is consistently Albert Lea, right up to the town itself. Des Moines isn't even mentioned until after Albert Lea.

Also, on I-94 west of St. Cloud, using Moorhead as a control city instead of the adjacent, and larger, city of Fargo, ND. (The distance signs alternate between Moorhead and Fargo, which are pretty much the same mileage, but I think the signs at the westbound on-ramps tend to use Moorhead; I've also seen on-ramp signs with Alexandria on them.)

WI is the opposite. There are only a handful of in-state control cities on Interstates.

[roadman65]

New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.

Minnesota is a lot like that too. On I-35 south of the Twin Cities, the control city is consistently Albert Lea, right up to the town itself. Des Moines isn't even mentioned until after Albert Lea.

Also, on I-94 west of St. Cloud, using Moorhead as a control city instead of the adjacent, and larger, city of Fargo, ND. (The distance signs alternate between Moorhead and Fargo, which are pretty much the same mileage, but I think the signs at the westbound on-ramps tend to use Moorhead; I've also seen on-ramp signs with Alexandria on them.)

Louisiana is one too except for I-20 west of Shreveport which uses Dallas over Marshall.  Even I-10 E Bound from New Orleans uses Slidell and east of I-12 uses Bay St. Louis over Biloxi or even Gulfport.  Some will argue that its because I-10 once ended at MS 607 and was not completed east of there for years, but LaDOTD loves to use local places as even on I-12 you have Hammond over Baton Rouge going west from Slidell and they also use the same Hammond for I-55 from I-10 instead of using Jackson, MS.

Then to fit the OP you have Roanoke on I-70 for I-81 south that skips over WV.
In Petersburg, VA you have Miami for I-95 south skipping over three states.
In IL for I-57 South at interstate junctions, that notorious Memphis skipping over 2 states.

[ftballfan]

SB US-522 has Winchester, VA as a control city on EB I-70 in Hancock, MD, skipping over WV
The same can be said from EB I-68 and WB I-70
There is a town (Berkeley Springs) in WV between Hancock and Winchester (with a 25 mph speed limit to boot)

[jp the roadgeek]

Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South.  If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).

[Roadgeekteen]

Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South.  If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).

What does US 13 use in Norfolk?