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Olancha-Cartago 4-Lane Project

Started by pderocco, July 11, 2022, 08:56:10 PM

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Voyager

Quote from: richardwm15 on February 28, 2024, 10:53:48 AM
According to the California Transportation Commission, the northbound lanes in the area of the ancient burial site has been realigned. The delay is quoted to be 175 working days. So the project won't be complete until October 31, 2024 at the earliest. Here's the link: https://catc.ca.gov/-/media/ctc-media/documents/ctc-meetings/2023/2023-06/99-2-5e9-a11y

Could be worse, I wonder what kind of a shift its going to create in the alignment though (since it'll be an expressway they might have to do quite a bit of route change).
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pderocco

The document doesn't describe where the rerouting is. However, I wonder if it can be explained by this sentence from a CalTrans statement I found in an Inyo Register article: "These laws and regulations require all agencies to maintain the confidentiality of cultural resources on any project, and Caltrans is restricted from providing specific project information which may lead to the disclosure of protected resources." If that's the reason, it won't prove effective, as we know where the road was going to go, and we'll eventually see where it does go, and the discrepancy will be limited to the area they're trying to keep secret.

ClassicHasClass

Stop trying to apply logic to Caltrans. It won't work.  :ded:

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: pderocco on March 01, 2024, 02:59:08 AM
The document doesn't describe where the rerouting is. However, I wonder if it can be explained by this sentence from a CalTrans statement I found in an Inyo Register article: "These laws and regulations require all agencies to maintain the confidentiality of cultural resources on any project, and Caltrans is restricted from providing specific project information which may lead to the disclosure of protected resources." If that's the reason, it won't prove effective, as we know where the road was going to go, and we'll eventually see where it does go, and the discrepancy will be limited to the area they're trying to keep secret.

This sounds completely reasonable? The law says government can't divulge where the cultural resources are, so they're not divulging it. Whether someone else uses process of elimination to figure out where the resources are is irrelevant.

And for heaven's sakes, don't go searching for the resources. Hopefully Caltrans and the tribes have worked out agreements on how to protect them since they have de facto been revealed.

Quillz

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on March 02, 2024, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: pderocco on March 01, 2024, 02:59:08 AM
The document doesn't describe where the rerouting is. However, I wonder if it can be explained by this sentence from a CalTrans statement I found in an Inyo Register article: "These laws and regulations require all agencies to maintain the confidentiality of cultural resources on any project, and Caltrans is restricted from providing specific project information which may lead to the disclosure of protected resources." If that's the reason, it won't prove effective, as we know where the road was going to go, and we'll eventually see where it does go, and the discrepancy will be limited to the area they're trying to keep secret.

This sounds completely reasonable? The law says government can't divulge where the cultural resources are, so they're not divulging it. Whether someone else uses process of elimination to figure out where the resources are is irrelevant.

And for heaven's sakes, don't go searching for the resources. Hopefully Caltrans and the tribes have worked out agreements on how to protect them since they have de facto been revealed.
I agree. So a segment has to be realigned due to existing laws. It happens, life goes on.

I think it's safe to 99.9% of the motoring public will not care or even think about this. "Oh, 395 looks different from before." Is about the most they'll go.

pderocco

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on March 02, 2024, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: pderocco on March 01, 2024, 02:59:08 AM
The document doesn't describe where the rerouting is. However, I wonder if it can be explained by this sentence from a CalTrans statement I found in an Inyo Register article: "These laws and regulations require all agencies to maintain the confidentiality of cultural resources on any project, and Caltrans is restricted from providing specific project information which may lead to the disclosure of protected resources." If that's the reason, it won't prove effective, as we know where the road was going to go, and we'll eventually see where it does go, and the discrepancy will be limited to the area they're trying to keep secret.

This sounds completely reasonable? The law says government can't divulge where the cultural resources are, so they're not divulging it. Whether someone else uses process of elimination to figure out where the resources are is irrelevant.

And for heaven's sakes, don't go searching for the resources. Hopefully Caltrans and the tribes have worked out agreements on how to protect them since they have de facto been revealed.

Well, they're not "resources" to me. I couldn't care less where they are.

gonealookin

Paving work is going again on this project, with completion now (allegedly) 18 or so months away.

https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-9/district-9-projects-list/olancha-cartago-4-lane-project

QuoteMay 23, 2024 - Paving has resumed on the southern end of the Olancha-Cartago 4-Lane Project after a winter suspension. Construction crews will aim to lay up to 120,000 tons of asphalt this year after they laid approximately 85,000 tons last year. The traffic switches currently in place at the north and south ends of the project area will remain in place throughout the summer and drivers can expect more traffic switches in the future. The project is estimated to complete construction in the fall of 2025.

Quillz

Was just there today. There is indeed a little bit of a back-up in Olancha where the switch happens. But then things clear out quickly.

I think it's been mentioned before, but once this project is complete, CA-190 will get a slight extension as it will take over a short segment of what is now US-395. Given the mile markers begin at 9 (I guess to reflect the never-built Sierra crossing), we'll  see mile markers R8 and under.

gonealookin

A new post from District 9 today indicates that all through US 395 traffic will bypass Olancha on the new alignment by sometime in November.

QuoteThere are changes coming next week to traffic flow on U.S. 395 through Olancha and Cartago. Southbound U.S. 395 traffic will switch onto the new southbound lanes of the Olancha Cartago 4-Lane Expressway Project starting October 7.  With this switch, Caltrans will open a new road connecting the new southbound lanes to old U.S. 395 and State Route 190.
...
Northbound traffic will remain on the existing lanes of U.S. 395 through Grant, Olancha, and Cartago. A second traffic switch planned for November will move northbound traffic to the new northbound lanes. Caltrans will release information about that traffic switch once details are finalized.

Voyager

That leaves the only 2 lane gap on highway 14 coming from LA now right?
AARoads Forum Original

Inyomono395

Quote from: Voyager on October 08, 2024, 02:13:12 PMThat leaves the only 2 lane gap on highway 14 coming from LA now right?

That is correct. That section is known as Freeman Gulch.

cl94

And I want to say plans to 4-lane that one segment are in the works (though someone at District 9 may know better). The current project had been in planning/design for at least a decade before construction began.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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pderocco

That's a three-phase project, and they've already done the first phase, at the northern end.

Having driven CA-14 and US-395 more times than I can count, I think that's a more dangerous stretch than the Olancha-Cartago stretch, because the latter is much flatter. The ups and downs on CA-14 make it really easy for someone to try passing and suddenly be confronted by a car appearing over a little rise. And tired skiers coming home from Mammoth on Sunday night tend to get sloppy.

It also looks like it might be an easier project, because there's no aqueduct to cross, and no little community to squeeze through. It would take some significant leveling, though.

Inyomono395

Quote from: cl94 on October 08, 2024, 05:17:24 PMAnd I want to say plans to 4-lane that one segment are in the works (though someone at District 9 may know better). The current project had been in planning/design for at least a decade before construction began.
Yes, plans are in the works. ( I work in District 9) Construction will begin sometime after the Olancha 4 lane project is complete.


Voyager

#39
Quote from: Inyomono395 on October 10, 2024, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 08, 2024, 05:17:24 PMAnd I want to say plans to 4-lane that one segment are in the works (though someone at District 9 may know better). The current project had been in planning/design for at least a decade before construction began.
Yes, plans are in the works. ( I work in District 9) Construction will begin sometime after the Olancha 4 lane project is complete.

Are there any other 395 projects (such as freeway conversions) that are in the pipeline? I know some of the intersections can be a bit sketchy between Lee Vining and Mammoth.

Edit: Fixed quoting. —Roadfro
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pderocco

Quote from: Voyager on October 16, 2024, 04:29:52 PMAre there any other 395 projects (such as freeway conversions) that are in the pipeline? I know some of the intersections can be a bit sketchy between Lee Vining and Mammoth.

I doubt it's actually "in the pipeline" but there has been talk about a bypass going 270 degrees around Bishop in order to serve their airport. Hard to imagine that very much US-395 traffic is related to their airport. I didn't even know there was an airport until I heard that discussion.

Maybe our grandkids will see it all upgraded to I-9.

pderocco

Quote from: gonealookin on October 03, 2024, 07:20:14 PMA new post from District 9 today indicates that all through US 395 traffic will bypass Olancha on the new alignment by sometime in November.

QuoteThere are changes coming next week to traffic flow on U.S. 395 through Olancha and Cartago. Southbound U.S. 395 traffic will switch onto the new southbound lanes of the Olancha Cartago 4-Lane Expressway Project starting October 7.  With this switch, Caltrans will open a new road connecting the new southbound lanes to old U.S. 395 and State Route 190.
...
Northbound traffic will remain on the existing lanes of U.S. 395 through Grant, Olancha, and Cartago. A second traffic switch planned for November will move northbound traffic to the new northbound lanes. Caltrans will release information about that traffic switch once details are finalized.
I see that Google Maps is showing the new alignment as one-way going south, which for the moment is correct, although they're not showing traffic colors on it yet. But they're showing the old alignment as one-way going north, which I'm pretty sure isn't the case, although they're only showing traffic on the right-hand side.

Rothman

Quote from: pderocco on October 16, 2024, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: Voyager on October 16, 2024, 04:29:52 PMAre there any other 395 projects (such as freeway conversions) that are in the pipeline? I know some of the intersections can be a bit sketchy between Lee Vining and Mammoth.

I doubt it's actually "in the pipeline" but there has been talk about a bypass going 270 degrees around Bishop in order to serve their airport. Hard to imagine that very much US-395 traffic is related to their airport. I didn't even know there was an airport until I heard that discussion.

Maybe our grandkids will see it all upgraded to I-9.

Wow.  Having been there, I would find this hard to justify given other CalTrans priorities.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Inyomono395

Quote from: pderocco on October 16, 2024, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: Voyager on October 16, 2024, 04:29:52 PMAre there any other 395 projects (such as freeway conversions) that are in the pipeline? I know some of the intersections can be a bit sketchy between Lee Vining and Mammoth.

I doubt it's actually "in the pipeline" but there has been talk about a bypass going 270 degrees around Bishop in order to serve their airport. Hard to imagine that very much US-395 traffic is related to their airport. I didn't even know there was an airport until I heard that discussion.

Maybe our grandkids will see it all upgraded to I-9.

There is nothing in the works to convert 395 into a freeway. The Bishop bypass has been talked about for many years, but has made no progress. I doubt it'll happen anytime soon, if ever.

Voyager

I had no idea Bishop had an airport (especially that big) either, but there isn't much of a need for a 395 bypass either there.
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lstone19

Quote from: Voyager on October 17, 2024, 04:56:20 PMI had no idea Bishop had an airport (especially that big) either, but there isn't much of a need for a 395 bypass either there.

Seasonal scheduled service (not year-round). Currently nothing until December per the airport's website. If getting to the airport over city streets works for LAX, I'm pretty sure it will work for Bishop.

cl94

Re: freeway conversion, it isn't really needed. The problem spots along 395 (and by extension 14) are the remaining 2-lane stretches south of Lone Pine. North of Lee Vining is generally fine (and many trucks cut over to 395 to bypass this), anything 4 lanes is fine.

The Bishop bypass is something that has been discussed forever, but I doubt it will ever happen due to cost and potential business impacts.

BIH commercial service resumed a few years back. Previously, commercial service went to Mammoth, but that airport (sitting at over 7,000 feet) is very prone to weather shutdowns.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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lstone19

Quote from: cl94 on October 17, 2024, 07:16:33 PMRe: freeway conversion, it isn't really needed. The problem spots along 395 (and by extension 14) are the remaining 2-lane stretches south of Lone Pine. North of Lee Vining is generally fine (and many trucks cut over to 395 to bypass this), anything 4 lanes is fine.

Huh? It's 395 we're talking about. Can't bypass 395 by cutting over to 395.

cl94

Quote from: lstone19 on October 17, 2024, 07:20:43 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 17, 2024, 07:16:33 PMRe: freeway conversion, it isn't really needed. The problem spots along 395 (and by extension 14) are the remaining 2-lane stretches south of Lone Pine. North of Lee Vining is generally fine (and many trucks cut over to 395 to bypass this), anything 4 lanes is fine.

Huh? It's 395 we're talking about. Can't bypass 395 by cutting over to 395.

Er, I meant 95. 6-360 gets a surprising number of trucks avoiding the grades along 395.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

gonealookin

Quote from: pderocco on October 16, 2024, 08:27:44 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on October 03, 2024, 07:20:14 PMA new post from District 9 today indicates that all through US 395 traffic will bypass Olancha on the new alignment by sometime in November.

QuoteThere are changes coming next week to traffic flow on U.S. 395 through Olancha and Cartago. Southbound U.S. 395 traffic will switch onto the new southbound lanes of the Olancha Cartago 4-Lane Expressway Project starting October 7.  With this switch, Caltrans will open a new road connecting the new southbound lanes to old U.S. 395 and State Route 190.
...
Northbound traffic will remain on the existing lanes of U.S. 395 through Grant, Olancha, and Cartago. A second traffic switch planned for November will move northbound traffic to the new northbound lanes. Caltrans will release information about that traffic switch once details are finalized.
I see that Google Maps is showing the new alignment as one-way going south, which for the moment is correct, although they're not showing traffic colors on it yet. But they're showing the old alignment as one-way going north, which I'm pretty sure isn't the case, although they're only showing traffic on the right-hand side.

I drove through it earlier this week.  North of the road leading off the new alignment east to the Crystal Geyser plant, the southbound lanes are striped for two-way traffic (although at the moment only the one southbound lane is being used).  That's because the new northbound lanes there still have quite a bit of work to be done before completion.  So it looks like starting sometime in November and for the next several months, coming northbound you will be on the new four-lane divided highway up to Crystal Geyser Road, and there will switch over to the new southbound lanes for a few miles.



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