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Olancha-Cartago 4-Lane Project

Started by pderocco, July 11, 2022, 08:56:10 PM

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lstone19

Quote from: cl94 on October 17, 2024, 10:26:27 PMEr, I meant 95. 6-360 gets a surprising number of trucks avoiding the grades along 395.

Thanks for the correction. Since moving to Reno two years ago, we drive to Santa Barbara once or twice a year. I've noticed not a lot of trucks between Carson City and Bishop and that explains some of it. Even with it being mostly two lanes Gardnerville to Lee Vining, it's still an easier way to go than over Donner and then south.


pderocco

Quote from: gonealookin on October 18, 2024, 10:45:17 AMI drove through it earlier this week.  North of the road leading off the new alignment east to the Crystal Geyser plant, the southbound lanes are striped for two-way traffic (although at the moment only the one southbound lane is being used).  That's because the new northbound lanes there still have quite a bit of work to be done before completion.  So it looks like starting sometime in November and for the next several months, coming northbound you will be on the new four-lane divided highway up to Crystal Geyser Road, and there will switch over to the new southbound lanes for a few miles.
So there's no closure on the old alignment? Google's still showing it closed southbound, with a few random bits which are open, which makes no sense.

gonealookin

Quote from: pderocco on October 18, 2024, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on October 18, 2024, 10:45:17 AMI drove through it earlier this week.  North of the road leading off the new alignment east to the Crystal Geyser plant, the southbound lanes are striped for two-way traffic (although at the moment only the one southbound lane is being used).  That's because the new northbound lanes there still have quite a bit of work to be done before completion.  So it looks like starting sometime in November and for the next several months, coming northbound you will be on the new four-lane divided highway up to Crystal Geyser Road, and there will switch over to the new southbound lanes for a few miles.
So there's no closure on the old alignment? Google's still showing it closed southbound, with a few random bits which are open, which makes no sense.

From what I could see of the old alignment, for now it's still carrying all the northbound traffic, with the southbound lane being coned off and closed north of the "towns" such as they are.  There was an electronic message board reading "Olancha/Cartago/SR 190 Turn here" from the new southbound lanes, I think at Crystal Geyser Road, with no direct access from the southbound new alignment to the old alignment prior to that.  The old alignment does have to be carrying at least some southbound traffic to serve the various private properties and also to get from Crystal Geyser Road south to SR 190.

pderocco

Quote from: gonealookin on October 18, 2024, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: pderocco on October 18, 2024, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on October 18, 2024, 10:45:17 AMI drove through it earlier this week.  North of the road leading off the new alignment east to the Crystal Geyser plant, the southbound lanes are striped for two-way traffic (although at the moment only the one southbound lane is being used).  That's because the new northbound lanes there still have quite a bit of work to be done before completion.  So it looks like starting sometime in November and for the next several months, coming northbound you will be on the new four-lane divided highway up to Crystal Geyser Road, and there will switch over to the new southbound lanes for a few miles.
So there's no closure on the old alignment? Google's still showing it closed southbound, with a few random bits which are open, which makes no sense.

From what I could see of the old alignment, for now it's still carrying all the northbound traffic, with the southbound lane being coned off and closed north of the "towns" such as they are.  There was an electronic message board reading "Olancha/Cartago/SR 190 Turn here" from the new southbound lanes, I think at Crystal Geyser Road, with no direct access from the southbound new alignment to the old alignment prior to that.  The old alignment does have to be carrying at least some southbound traffic to serve the various private properties and also to get from Crystal Geyser Road south to SR 190.
Yes, it would. I can't understand why they would be closing off parts of the old alignment, because they're not getting rid of it, and I can't imagine any significant modifications they'd make to it. It's going to be just an ordinary local road, north of CA-190. But I wonder if it will be signed as a business route.

Also, through Cartago, does anyone know if there are now three roadbeds, two for the new highway, and one for the old alignment as a frontage road? Or is the old alignment splitting off just south of Cartago?

gonealookin

Quote from: pderocco on October 18, 2024, 07:16:53 PMAlso, through Cartago, does anyone know if there are now three roadbeds, two for the new highway, and one for the old alignment as a frontage road? Or is the old alignment splitting off just south of Cartago?

There are three roadbeds to a point well to the north of Cartago.  Parts of the new northbound lanes north of Crystal Geyser Road haven't been paved yet, thus the need for the southbound lanes to temporarily carry two way traffic once northbound US 395 traffic is fully shifted to the new alignment in November.

There is a new T intersection at the south end of the project, connecting the old alignment to the new alignment.  This will become the new begin point of extended SR 190, and there are shields in place now to that effect though they are covered up.

North of Cartago there don't appear to be any private properties that would be served by the old alignment.  So I'd expect a similar T intersection will be constructed there, and the remaining portion of the old alignment north of that North T would be torn up.

oscar

#55
Any updates?

On October 29, I traveled through the project area in both directions (including the new southbound roadway), before cutting over on CA 190 to cross Death Valley when it wasn't so hot. I also traveled Crystal Geyser Rd. in Cartago, in both directions between the old US 395 and the new US 395 southbound roadway.

Northbound US395 traffic still was on the old alignment. The new alignment's northbound roadway was not yet open to traffic.

CA 190 still ends at the old US 395 alignment. Signs direct westbound CA 190 traffic to a temporary detour, using US 395 NB and Crystal Geyser, to connect to US 395's new SB alignment. In Olancha, there was an unopened new road between US 395's old and new alignments. A partially-covered CA 190 junction sign assembly, on the new SB roadway, indicates the new connector road will become the permanent connector between the old and new US 395 alignments.

I think I've clinched the new US 395 on the Olanche-Cartago area, but not yet the CA 190 permanent extension to the new US 395.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

cl94

Caltrans announced this week that northbound traffic will shift to the new alignment on Tuesday the 19th.

https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-9/district-9-news/2024_11_12-nb-traffic-switch-olancha-cartago
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

pderocco

Quote from: cl94 on November 14, 2024, 10:48:22 PMCaltrans announced this week that northbound traffic will shift to the new alignment on Tuesday the 19th.

https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-9/district-9-news/2024_11_12-nb-traffic-switch-olancha-cartago
Maybe I'll drive up there on Saturday the 23rd. Gotta maintain my clinch.

It looks like there's still a whole new NB roadbed that needs to be built north of Crystal Geyser Rd.

gonealookin

Hear ye, hear ye, be it duly noted for history that on November 20, 2024, northbound US 395 traffic was switched off the old alignment through Olancha and Cartago on to the bypass.

https://twitter.com/Caltrans9/status/1859359566183661960

So what we have is:

4-lane US 395 expressway as far north as Crystal Geyser Road.

At Crystal Geyser Road, northbound traffic switches to the southbound lanes of the new alignment, which carry 2-way traffic in 2 lanes for a few miles.

At some point in 2025, the northbound lanes north of Crystal Geyser Road will be completed, and at that time US 395 will be a four-lane highway all the way from the SR 14/US 395 split near Ridgecrest to a point alongside Mono Lake just north of Lee Vining.

gonealookin

And here's a one-minute northbound drive-through, from the current end of the four-lane stretch going through the switchover to the southbound lanes.  Crystal Geyser Road is the intersection at the end of the video.  The note states that this pattern will remain in place "until spring 2025".

https://twitter.com/Caltrans9/status/1861554731539406977 

oscar

The Caltrans D9 website confirms, and OpenStreetMap shows, the extension of CA 190 from Olancha over part of the old US 395 alignment to the new US 395. This extension opened to traffic on December 19.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

TheStranger

Quote from: oscar on December 31, 2024, 11:10:27 PMThe Caltrans D9 website confirms, and OpenStreetMap shows, the extension of CA 190 from Olancha over part of the old US 395 alignment to the new US 395. This extension opened to traffic on December 19.

This creates an interesting quirk in AAMaps: the Historic US 6 shield is applied to the Olancha bypass and not Old US 395!
Chris Sampang

pderocco

Quote from: TheStranger on January 01, 2025, 01:12:57 AM
Quote from: oscar on December 31, 2024, 11:10:27 PMThe Caltrans D9 website confirms, and OpenStreetMap shows, the extension of CA 190 from Olancha over part of the old US 395 alignment to the new US 395. This extension opened to traffic on December 19.

This creates an interesting quirk in AAMaps: the Historic US 6 shield is applied to the Olancha bypass and not Old US 395!
That would be reasonable if the old alignment was removed. A few bits of US-395 aren't on quite the same alignment as when it was cosigned with US-6.

Are they signing the old route as US-395 business loop? They should.

oscar

#63
Quote from: pderocco on January 01, 2025, 01:41:49 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on January 01, 2025, 01:12:57 AM
Quote from: oscar on December 31, 2024, 11:10:27 PMThe Caltrans D9 website confirms, and OpenStreetMap shows, the extension of CA 190 from Olancha over part of the old US 395 alignment to the new US 395. This extension opened to traffic on December 19.

This creates an interesting quirk in AAMaps: the Historic US 6 shield is applied to the Olancha bypass and not Old US 395!
That would be reasonable if the old alignment was removed. A few bits of US-395 aren't on quite the same alignment as when it was cosigned with US-6.

Are they signing the old route as US-395 business loop? They should.

I haven't seen any official plans for a Business US 395. ISTM CA 190's absorption of part of the old route makes that less likely.

A short section of the old route, south of North Haiwee Rd., is now closed to traffic, perhaps permanently now that the CA 190 extension provides another connection between US 395 and Olancha. That might complicate putting Historic US 6 on the old alignment. Also, I don't recall seeing any Historic US 6 or US 395 signage anywhere in the Olancha-Cartago area. Travel Mapping includes in its draft mapping of historic US routes the well-signed Historic US 6 in northern Los Angeles County, but no other part of Historic US 6 in California.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

gonealookin

Quote from: pderocco on January 01, 2025, 01:41:49 AMAre they signing the old route as US-395 business loop? They should.

Signing a "Business Loop" would imply that there are businesses along there to serve travelers.  There is almost none of that in Olancha; a gas station, a jerky place in another old gas station, one cafe attached to an RV park and that's about it.

pderocco

Quote from: oscar on January 01, 2025, 09:43:14 AMA short section of the old route, south of North Haiwee Rd., is now closed to traffic, perhaps permanently now that the CA 190 extension provides another connection between US 395 and Olancha. That might complicate putting Historic US 6 on the old alignment. Also, I don't recall seeing any Historic US 6 or US 395 signage anywhere in the Olancha-Cartago area. Travel Mapping includes in its draft mapping of historic US routes the well-signed Historic US 6 in northern Los Angeles County, but no other part of Historic US 6 in California.
That rerouting isn't surprising, since you don't want any high speed merges. But I'm under the impression that historic route signage is rather informal, since it doesn't imply anything legal like maintenance responsibility. And it also seems like it's a local matter, having nothing to do with AASHTO, or perhaps even the state DOT. Does anyone here know more about that?

oscar

#66
Quote from: pderocco on January 01, 2025, 11:30:59 PMBut I'm under the impression that historic route signage is rather informal, since it doesn't imply anything legal like maintenance responsibility. And it also seems like it's a local matter, having nothing to do with AASHTO, or perhaps even the state DOT. Does anyone here know more about that?

My understanding is that historic route signage in California is entirely unofficial. It's usually erected by a nonprofit organization that "sponsors" the route. Los Angeles County has such an organization, which does a pretty good job of maintaining the historic route markers it erects. Ditto Sacramento County, where Historic US 40 (last time I was there) is signed very well in downtown Sacramento, while concurrent relinquished segments of CA 160 are not, even though the city or county is supposed to maintain continuation signage for the relinquished state route, and Caltrans' headquarters are there if it felt like enforcing the continuation signage requirement (my impression is it doesn't).

Historic route signage exists in other California counties as well. But I don't know if Inyo County or any of its communities has a locality or other organization willing to make the effort to erect and maintain historic route signage.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

ClassicHasClass

I haven't seen any historic route signage of any sort in Inyo. There are GAR shields between CA 168 and Bishop near Keough Hot Springs, but I think that's about it.

TheStranger

To clarify:

AAroads's AAmaps shows the new US 395 with a "Historic US 6" shield next to it; this is not me commenting on in-the-field signage at all, only what AAmaps is showing.
https://www.aaroads.com/aamaps/

historic us 6 olancha by Chris Sampang, on Flickr
Chris Sampang

cahwyguy

Quote from: oscar on January 01, 2025, 09:43:14 AMA short section of the old route, south of North Haiwee Rd., is now closed to traffic, perhaps permanently now that the CA 190 extension provides another connection between US 395 and Olancha. That might complicate putting Historic US 6 on the old alignment. Also, I don't recall seeing any Historic US 6 or US 395 signage anywhere in the Olancha-Cartago area. Travel Mapping includes in its draft mapping of historic US routes the well-signed Historic US 6 in northern Los Angeles County, but no other part of Historic US 6 in California.

I'm working on the podcast episode on US 6, and saw this. I don't think it is permanently closed. My pages note:

QuoteThe portion of the existing highway between the intersection with Route 190 and the southern intersection with the new expressway is proposed to be redesignated as Route 190. A concurrent Commission's action to approve the redesignation of this portion of US 395 as Route 190 is on the January 2018 Commission agenda. This action will reestablish the terminus of Route 190 at US 395. The remaining portion of the superseded highway between the intersection with Route 190 and north of the community of Cartago will be relinquished to Inyo County after project completion. The superseded highway will continue to provide a local route that preserves the existing uses and access along the existing corridor. The project will also construct or reconstruct a couple other county roads, all of which will be relinquished to Inyo County.

My guess is that they closed that segment in order to construct a new connection and offramp for Route 190 N to Olancha, and that they will work on that once the new expressway is open. I haven't seen anything adopting Crystal Geyser Road as state highway, nor have I seen anything indicating the north old US 395 would become Route 190 (and that would make more of a complicated connection to Route 190 SB). I'd expect to see that SB section reopen after the new expressway is completed, and they've redone the connector and signage.

Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

oscar

^^ Thanks. My comment above, about "the old route, south of North Haiwee Rd., is now closed to traffic, perhaps permanently" reflects signage in Olancha I saw in late October indicating that traffic on southbound old US 395 could not continue to the new alignment, and would need to instead use Crystal Geyser Rd. to connect to the new alignment. I haven't been there since the new connector south of Olancha, reported in a Caltrans D9 press release, was opened, or how the signage has changed; nor did I check out, while I was there, what happened to the old US 395 pavement south of North Haiwee.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

pderocco

I think it's pretty obvious that the 2/3 of a mile between N Haiwee Rd, where the former 395 necked necked down to two lanes, is going to disappear. There's nothing on it. The freeway-izing of CA-58 has returned some significant pieces of its old alignment to nature.

cahwyguy

#72
Quote from: pderocco on January 06, 2025, 04:21:09 AMI think it's pretty obvious that the 2/3 of a mile between N Haiwee Rd, where the former 395 necked necked down to two lanes, is going to disappear. There's nothing on it. The freeway-izing of CA-58 has returned some significant pieces of its old alignment to nature.

Pretty obvious?

I don't think so, especially given that what Caltrans has published, and what the CTC has acted upon, and what was in the Environmental Reports, all have the southern segment from Olancha becoming the extension of Route 190 to the new US 395, and the northern segment being relinquished to the county.

I noted the following in 2018:

QuoteIn January 2018, the CTC approved a request from the California Department of Transportation's (Department) to adopt US 395 in Inyo County from INY 29.9 to INY 41.9 as a controlled access highway, redesignate a segment of superseded US 395 as Route 190 and, upon construction completion of the new controlled access highway, relinquish the remaining portion of the superseded US 395 to Inyo County. The Department proposes to adopt this 12.14 mile section of US 395 to construct a new expressway within the adoption limits, which will improve safety for the traveling public, raise the level of service, and provide a continuous four-lane facility in Inyo County. A final Environmental Impact Report/Environmental Assessment (EIR/EA) prepared pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act and the National Environmental Policy Act was approved by the Department on March 7, 2017 and by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) on May 26, 2017. The Department approved a project report on June 27, 2017 recommending construction of the new US 395 expressway on a new alignment and redesignation of a portion of the superseded segment as Route 190. The remaining portion of the superseded highway will be relinquished to Inyo County after project construction completion. Later maps indicated that the relinquished section of US 395 may be signed as BUSINESS US 395.

I read through all the CTC minutes for my site. I haven not seen anything yet rescinding that route adoption.

I will give one caveat tho: The "State Route 190 Connector" just opened, per https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-9/district-9-news/2024_12_19-sr-190-connector-opens . I haven't seen a map showing where this connector is. Neither Google maps nor AAmaps show it. It is possible this connector will be used to replace that small segment of old US 395. But, again, there hasn't been anything in the CTC agendas about this connector. Potentially there is more information here.

Lastly, I'm not sure what the mention of Route 58 has to do with this. This is US 395 -- a different project (by a different Caltrans district, IIRC).

Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

lstone19

Quote from: cahwyguy on January 06, 2025, 09:23:05 AM
Quote from: pderocco on January 06, 2025, 04:21:09 AMI think it's pretty obvious that the 2/3 of a mile between N Haiwee Rd, where the former 395 necked necked down to two lanes, is going to disappear. There's nothing on it. The freeway-izing of CA-58 has returned some significant pieces of its old alignment to nature.

Pretty obvious?

I don't think so, especially given that what Caltrans has published, and what the CTC has acted upon, and what was in the Environmental Reports, all have the southern segment from Olancha becoming the extension of Route 190 to the new US 395, and the northern segment being relinquished to the county.

I will give one caveat tho: The "State Route 190 Connector" just opened, per https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-9/district-9-news/2024_12_19-sr-190-connector-opens . I haven't seen a map showing where this connector is. Neither Google maps nor AAmaps show it. It is possible this connector will be used to replace that small segment of old US 395. But, again, there hasn't been anything in the CTC agendas about this connector. Potentially there is more information here.

I think pderocco is talking about abandoning the short section south from Haiwee Rd to where the old and new roads converge. Google Earth has 11/28/2024 imagery and the new 190 connector from near Haiwee Rd on the old 395 to the new 395 is very obvious.

cahwyguy

Quote from: lstone19 on January 06, 2025, 11:02:38 AM
Quote from: cahwyguy on January 06, 2025, 09:23:05 AM
Quote from: pderocco on January 06, 2025, 04:21:09 AMI think it's pretty obvious that the 2/3 of a mile between N Haiwee Rd, where the former 395 necked necked down to two lanes, is going to disappear. There's nothing on it. The freeway-izing of CA-58 has returned some significant pieces of its old alignment to nature.

Pretty obvious?

I don't think so, especially given that what Caltrans has published, and what the CTC has acted upon, and what was in the Environmental Reports, all have the southern segment from Olancha becoming the extension of Route 190 to the new US 395, and the northern segment being relinquished to the county.

I will give one caveat tho: The "State Route 190 Connector" just opened, per https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-9/district-9-news/2024_12_19-sr-190-connector-opens . I haven't seen a map showing where this connector is. Neither Google maps nor AAmaps show it. It is possible this connector will be used to replace that small segment of old US 395. But, again, there hasn't been anything in the CTC agendas about this connector. Potentially there is more information here.

I think pderocco is talking about abandoning the short section south from Haiwee Rd to where the old and new roads converge. Google Earth has 11/28/2024 imagery and the new 190 connector from near Haiwee Rd on the old 395 to the new 395 is very obvious.

I'm not seeing anything on Google Maps. I don't normally use Google Earth; looking at https://earth.google.com/ , I see what could be a road under construction . Whether that will replace the segment from Haiwee to old US 395 is unclear. I'm not sure we'll be able to say that until we see the CTC relinquish that segment with a new route adoption. That could be the eventual plan -- but it hasn't gone through the CTC yet. They may be waiting until the project is finished to do all of those changes.

I do expect to see CTC actions to relinquish the section of old US 395 N of Route 190 to the county. They could be waiting to combine it with that resolution, and it is likely the same agenda will contain the formal route adoption of the Route 190 connector. But until that point, the last CTC action had the section of old US 395 S of Haiwee adopted as Route 190.

I hesitate to say things are obvious until we've seen the paperwork. We've all seen temporary roadways constructed.
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways



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