What route would the 84 freeway have taken from the Dumbarton Bridge to 280?

Started by Voyager, November 12, 2024, 02:06:45 PM

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Voyager

I always wondered this since most maps are fairly vague on the routing, but the 280/Sand Hill Rd interchange is overbuilt and the 101/Woodside Rd interchange is also overbuilt, along with the 84/El Camino Real interchange as well.
AARoads Forum Original


TheStranger

From the 1968 official California freeway/expressway map:

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~238665~5511609

The proposed 84 is shown as following a direct trajectory from the west landing of the Dumbarton Bridge to today's 35/84 junction, and does seem to vaguely parallel/correspond with Sand Hill Road's path from El Camino southwest towards Jasper Ridge Biological Preserve.

The still-current 84 along Woodside was at the time legislatively Route 114 (which then was switched some years later to become the designation of former signed 84, Willow Road - I have seen 114 signs briefly pop up on 101 during construction periods in the last decade and a half).
Chris Sampang

DTComposer

You can see the proposed routing here:



(images courtesy WalkingSF on Flickr)

The I-280/Sand Hill Road interchange is obviously designed to eventually handle an expressway or freeway connection.


cahwyguy

I'll also note I have information on this on the Route 84 page, https://www.cahighways.org/ROUTE084.html . In particular, I have the route adoption map that goes with: "In July 1964, the Highway Commission adopted a 1.7 mi freeway location for Route 84 between the adopted route for I-280 and Santa Cruz Avenue in Menlo Park, following the general alignment of Sand Hill Road. The requirement was that this freeway comply with the master plan for scenic highways. The alternative considered was a routing along Alpine Road. San Mateo and Santa Clara preferred the Sand Hill routing; Palo Alto favored Alpine Road. Stanford opposed the Alpine Route. Note that this routing was later renumbered as Route 114, and then the segment between I-280 and US 101 was deleted from the Route 114 definition."



I thought about adding the two maps earlier in this discussion, but they seemed to be redundant with the information I already had. If folks think I should try to add them to the page, please let me know.
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

Voyager

Quote from: cahwyguy on November 28, 2024, 03:20:02 PMI'll also note I have information on this on the Route 84 page, https://www.cahighways.org/ROUTE084.html . In particular, I have the route adoption map that goes with: "In July 1964, the Highway Commission adopted a 1.7 mi freeway location for Route 84 between the adopted route for I-280 and Santa Cruz Avenue in Menlo Park, following the general alignment of Sand Hill Road. The requirement was that this freeway comply with the master plan for scenic highways. The alternative considered was a routing along Alpine Road. San Mateo and Santa Clara preferred the Sand Hill routing; Palo Alto favored Alpine Road. Stanford opposed the Alpine Route. Note that this routing was later renumbered as Route 114, and then the segment between I-280 and US 101 was deleted from the Route 114 definition."



I thought about adding the two maps earlier in this discussion, but they seemed to be redundant with the information I already had. If folks think I should try to add them to the page, please let me know.


Would 84 have duplexed with 280 up to Woodside Rd or taken a different route to connect with the western branch?
AARoads Forum Original

TheStranger

Quote from: Voyager on November 29, 2024, 12:15:56 PMWould 84 have duplexed with 280 up to Woodside Rd or taken a different route to connect with the western branch?

I mentioned it in my earlier reply, but the planned 84 along Sand Hill was slated to continue west to the current alignment near the Jasper Ridge Biological Preserve and Wunderlich County Park.  (Not sure if those parks/nature preserves ultimately were an obstacle for the project, or if the opposition in Palo Alto/Menlo Park was enough to get the whole thing canceled before that came up)
Chris Sampang

cahwyguy

I'm not sure anything was adopted W of 280, but there were plans. It was shown on the 1964 state highway map:

Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

TheStranger

The comparison between the 1964 and 1990 maps then makes me wonder: is what is now the unsigned 109 originally part of the planned 84 realignment?
Chris Sampang

kkt

There were several different plans for connecting 84 with 280 that Caltrans proposed, all of them unpopular with the locals.  I don't remember the exact timing or sequence when each proposal was alive, but they included Willow Road in Menlo Park to Page Mill Road in Palo Alto, and Willow Road to Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park.  You'll note that they don't really connect and eminent domain of built up land would have been required to connect them, unless it was a jog along El Camino or something.  They did finally put 84 up Woodside Road which doesn't serve commuters to Silicon Valley very well - but commuters are going to find their own ways regardless of where the state routes are.  Initial proposals were for a full freeway from the Dumbarton Bridge to 280, but that was shot down fairly quickly.  And locals didn't even want a signed state route that was a city street.

The intersections with 280 were also overbuilt on the assumption that the hills west of 280 would also be full of houses, rather than the relatively low density housing with a lot of open space that was there and is still there.  People do love their open space.  Stanford's preserve especially is great for wildlife, with no development at all - good for wildlife and good for the biologists who study it as a "before" picture.  As private land, they do not allow anyone there except for biologists, and they are not allowed to eat even a snack there, use the bathroom before they go and then not again until they leave.

109 - University Avenue in East Palo Alto and an extension across the mudflats to meet the Dumbarton Bridge approach.  Is it really still unsigned?  I remember that someone - Caltrans? - widened it and made the street more pleasant as the "main street" of East Palo Alto, with a more direct connection from University Avenue in Palo Alto to the Dumbarton Bridge.  Also slightly rearranged a suboptimal interchange with 101.  They hoped fixing up the main street would make East Palo Alto feel like less of a slum for Stanford students to hit the dive bars.  I was living out of state by the time it was done so I'm not really sure how it turned out beyond what you can see from a drive through it.



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