CA RxR 3.05p2: I-5: San Diego to Los Angeles (Part 2)

Started by cahwyguy, December 30, 2024, 01:37:39 PM

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cahwyguy

The second part of the podcast on the segment of I-5 from Mexico to Downtown LA is now up (this is the former US 101 portion). This evening, we're recording the next episode, which will cover the rest of US 99 in Los Angeles, as well as the ridge route. I've also been working on writing the US 6 episode, which uncovered some interesting stuff related to the routing in the Newhall Pass (as well as making me realize that Balboa was once routed up Jollette to Meadowlark to Sesnon back to where it is now). Fun vacation!

On CARoutebyRoute: https://caroutebyroute.org/2024/12/30/ca-rxr-3-05p2-i-5-san-diego-to-los-angeles-part-2/
On Spotify: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/caroutebyroute/episodes/CA-RxR-3-05p2-I-5-San-Diego-to-Los-Angeles-Part-2-e2sdsaj/a-abmfeio

Note that working on writing the US 6 episode brought me back to this forum thread about US 6 being routed on the Hollywood Freeway. I'd love to illustrate that on my page, but the only map showing this I can find is on Mike Ballard's page, and I'm very cautious around Mike's material. If anyone knows of another source for a map showing this, please let me know. It's interesting how writing an episode leads to loads of updates for my pages (so expect some new US 6 stuff, esp. in the Newhall Pass area, around February)
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways


mrsman


cahwyguy

Quote from: mrsman on December 30, 2024, 03:09:13 PMNo luck on a map, but I feel that the use of Hollywood as a control on some of the signs on the Harbor Freeway is a legacy of the almost concurrency.  Why else would it be listed, if not as a way of guiding the thru traffic of US 6 from the Harbor to the Hollywood?

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0341254,-118.274497,3a,16.2y,361.93h,90.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slgTwm4PJBMCdtMuJhfeV4w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-0.8197014825628628%26panoid%3DlgTwm4PJBMCdtMuJhfeV4w%26yaw%3D1.9295844224919847!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D



But that could equally show a connection with US 101 to Hollywood, not specifically US 6. I want map or photographic evidence, most likely from 1963, that DOH planned to move US 6 there. Mike Ballard has it at https://socalregion.com/highways/us_6/ , but I do not want to use his maps. If I can find the equivalent elsewhere, that's fair game (as I did with the unbuilt ramps at the 126/14 connector, which are easily visible from Google Maps).
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

Max Rockatansky

There isn't anything regarding US 6 being proposed for the Hollywood Freeway in the AASHTO database.  I suspect Division VII might have been serious about it but perhaps didn't realize the State Highway Engineer was going to ask for a truncation to Bishop by May 1963?

DTComposer

I went through my small collection of L.A.-area maps from that area - mainly Auto Club and Thomas Guides, and could not find any that put US-6 on the Hollywood Freeway (or preceding alignments such as Lankershim).

I also checked all the Caltrans maps from 1955-1965 at the Rumsey Library site and they also all keep US-6 on the Golden State/Pasadena Freeways.

I checked the CPHW index for articles relating to the Hollywood Freeway and none of them reference US-6 (it should be noted that only a few referenced US-101 as well). HOWEVER, the index itself has the listing as "Hollywood Fwy. [Cahuenga Pass Fwy., US 6]" - so that adds a little mystery to it.

Max Rockatansky

Probably worth noting that the Division VII did sign US 6 in a couple places on the Golden State Freeway.  Would have invested money in that if they were really serious about moving US 6 to the Hollywood Freeway only withing a couple years? 

cahwyguy

Well, based on Michael's site, they thought about it in 1963, drew up a few sign plans, perhaps did one sign on the Hollywood Freeway extension before it opened, and then the 1964 legislation made everything moot. There is one sign chart he found, and one mapmaker that jumped the gun. Footnotes to history are still history.
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

cahwyguy

Update: MarkF provided me a copy of the map, which will be worked in for the next round of updates.
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

mrsman

#8
I wonder if any of this (the almost moving of US 6 to the Hollywood Freeway between Downtown LA and I-5) has to do with the truck restrictions on the Arroyo Seco Parkway.

Before the early 1960's trucks were allowed on what is now the 110 between current US 101 and the left exit leading to Figueroa Street (now the left exit for I-5 north).  But trucks were not allowed on the Arroyo Seco Parkway itself north of there.

With the completion of the Santa Monica and Golden State Freeways, there was now a bypass to allow trucks from the Harbor Freeway to reach North Figueroa Street without jamming up the left exit from the 110 freeway.  So this became (a poorly signed) truck routing to connect the Harbor Freeway to North Figueroa, with an actual truck restriction being put in place at US 101. 

If a truck wanted to go between San Pedro and Pasadena, they are advised to follow the Santa Monica and Golden State Freeways to Figueroa and then take Figueroa north.  If a truck wanted to go between San Pedro and San Fernando, they could use the Santa Monica to reach the Golden State Freeway, but it is much more direct to use the Hollywood Freeway between Downtown and Sun Valley.  Signing a through route US 6 via the Hollywood Freeway would be one method of guiding the northbound traffic to San Fernando, Lancaster, Bakersfield, and beyond away from the truck restriction.

And it seems that that was very likely a plan until the 1964 remembering simply truncated us 6 much further north.



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