Michigan Notes

[Flint1979]

New signage along I-75 northbound.

[wanderer2575]

^^  I really really really really really really dislike how MDOT signing plans no longer evenly line up the bottom edges of multiple signs on a gantry, especially on the triangular trichord ones.  It looks sloppy as hell.

[Terry Shea]

^^  I really really really really really really dislike how MDOT signing plans no longer evenly line up the bottom edges of multiple signs on a gantry, especially on the triangular trichord ones.  It looks sloppy as hell.

Hey, at least they're getting the spelling right.  This was over 30 years ago, but they once put up an exit sign on I-196 WB for M-45 Lake MIchigan Dr. which they abbreviated as "Lake Mihc. Dr."

[rhen_var]

Speaking of odd signs in the state, I recently drove through Jackson and noticed this sign that was installed on I-94 during the reconstruction: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2745669,-84.3891765,3a,20.9y,277.14h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0RosTprSMVT-AB1kljJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is this intended to be temporary and eventually have an overhead version replace it in a future project?  It seems like an odd design and I've never seen one like it before.

[Terry Shea]

Speaking of odd signs in the state, I recently drove through Jackson and noticed this sign that was installed on I-94 during the reconstruction: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2745669,-84.3891765,3a,20.9y,277.14h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0RosTprSMVT-AB1kljJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is this intended to be temporary and eventually have an overhead version replace it in a future project?  It seems like an odd design and I've never seen one like it before.

What's odd about it?  Looks like a perfectly normal sign to me.

[Flint1979]

Not sure how long this is going to last but I-75 is closed between mile marker 144 and 149 due to a power line laying across all lanes of the highway both directions are closed until further notice

[Flint1979]

I was just on it  I-75 has been reopened.

[rhen_var]

Speaking of odd signs in the state, I recently drove through Jackson and noticed this sign that was installed on I-94 during the reconstruction: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2745669,-84.3891765,3a,20.9y,277.14h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0RosTprSMVT-AB1kljJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is this intended to be temporary and eventually have an overhead version replace it in a future project?  It seems like an odd design and I've never seen one like it before.

What's odd about it?  Looks like a perfectly normal sign to me.

It's an exit only sign but with mounted to the side with the arrow pointing diagonally down at the exit only lane.  Typically they're directly over the exit lane.  Have you ever seen one like that before, and if so, where?

[wanderer2575]

Speaking of odd signs in the state, I recently drove through Jackson and noticed this sign that was installed on I-94 during the reconstruction: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2745669,-84.3891765,3a,20.9y,277.14h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0RosTprSMVT-AB1kljJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is this intended to be temporary and eventually have an overhead version replace it in a future project?  It seems like an odd design and I've never seen one like it before.

What's odd about it?  Looks like a perfectly normal sign to me.

It's an exit only sign but with mounted to the side with the arrow pointing diagonally down at the exit only lane.  Typically they're directly over the exit lane.  Have you ever seen one like that before, and if so, where?

I've seen them in situations where a cantilever structure (with an overhead sign) had been removed, I'm guessing because of structural concerns, until the cantilever was replaced.  Which sometimes has taken years.

For example:  Eastbound I-94 approaching Sargent Road in Jackson.  You can see the footing for the previous cantilever structure behind the sign.  (This is an older photo; the exit-only lane no longer exists.)

[rhen_var]

Speaking of odd signs in the state, I recently drove through Jackson and noticed this sign that was installed on I-94 during the reconstruction: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2745669,-84.3891765,3a,20.9y,277.14h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0RosTprSMVT-AB1kljJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is this intended to be temporary and eventually have an overhead version replace it in a future project?  It seems like an odd design and I've never seen one like it before.

What's odd about it?  Looks like a perfectly normal sign to me.

It's an exit only sign but with mounted to the side with the arrow pointing diagonally down at the exit only lane.  Typically they're directly over the exit lane.  Have you ever seen one like that before, and if so, where?

I've seen them in situations where a cantilever structure (with an overhead sign) had been removed, I'm guessing because of structural concerns, until the cantilever was replaced.  Which sometimes has taken years.

For example:  Eastbound I-94 approaching Sargent Road in Jackson.  You can see the footing for the previous cantilever structure behind the sign.  (This is an older photo; the exit-only lane no longer exists.)

Interesting, thanks for the example!  So it is a "temporary" solution, that would explain why I'd never seen one before.  I suppose the Cooper St one will be around for a while then.

[JoePCool14]

Speaking of odd signs in the state, I recently drove through Jackson and noticed this sign that was installed on I-94 during the reconstruction: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2745669,-84.3891765,3a,20.9y,277.14h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0RosTprSMVT-AB1kljJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is this intended to be temporary and eventually have an overhead version replace it in a future project?  It seems like an odd design and I've never seen one like it before.

Keep this one for the shear fact that it's a modern MDOT sign in FHWA font.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.abc12.com/news/local/tolls-on-bay-citys-drawbridge-scheduled-to-begin-for-some-in-2022/article_b31babd6-61b4-11ec-89b3-f31813ea6913.html

Two toll bridges will be coming to Bay City on the existing drawbridges (Liberty and Independence bridges). Tolls will be collected via a gantry, so there will be a transponder that will cost $15 a month. People who live outside of the Bay City area will be charged, and an invoice of 50 cents per crossing will be added to those who don't have a transponder.

Edit to add: The new tolling system will be designed to be compatible with as many other toll systems as possible, including EZ-Pass and the new MacPass stickers.

Fact sheet: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/BCBP_FactSheet-Oct20.pdf

[Flint1979]

https://www.abc12.com/news/local/tolls-on-bay-citys-drawbridge-scheduled-to-begin-for-some-in-2022/article_b31babd6-61b4-11ec-89b3-f31813ea6913.html

Two toll bridges will be coming to Bay City on the existing drawbridges (Liberty and Independence bridges). Tolls will be collected via a gantry, so there will be a transponder that will cost $15 a month. People who live outside of the Bay City area will be charged, and an invoice of 50 cents per crossing will be added to those who don't have a transponder.

Good I won't have any problem shunpiking these bridges. What a stupid idea for a city like Bay City this is utterly ridiculous.

[Terry Shea]

https://www.abc12.com/news/local/tolls-on-bay-citys-drawbridge-scheduled-to-begin-for-some-in-2022/article_b31babd6-61b4-11ec-89b3-f31813ea6913.html

Two toll bridges will be coming to Bay City on the existing drawbridges (Liberty and Independence bridges). Tolls will be collected via a gantry, so there will be a transponder that will cost $15 a month. People who live outside of the Bay City area will be charged, and an invoice of 50 cents per crossing will be added to those who don't have a transponder.

Edit to add: The new tolling system will be designed to be compatible with as many other toll systems as possible, including EZ-Pass and the new MacPass stickers.

Fact sheet: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/BCBP_FactSheet-Oct20.pdf

That will bring tourism to the city! Maybe the city can hire Madonna as their spokesperson!

[Flint1979]

I was just in Bay City today thinking of how old and run down it is. It's just a typical city on the Great Lakes and has very old buildings. There really isn't any reason to toll these bridges. People in Bay City aren't going to be happy having to pay extra money to cross the bridge. This is a city I know very well and trust me this is not going to go over well at all.

[texaskdog]

Anyone have details of the Traverse City bypass that was never built?

[CoolAngrybirdsrio4]

Anyone have details of the Traverse City bypass that was never built?

As far I am aware of, I have only seen the bypass as an idea in regards to increasing traffic.

[rhen_var]

I was just in Bay City today thinking of how old and run down it is. It's just a typical city on the Great Lakes and has very old buildings. There really isn't any reason to toll these bridges. People in Bay City aren't going to be happy having to pay extra money to cross the bridge. This is a city I know very well and trust me this is not going to go over well at all.

I remember hearing that the bridges are both in very poor shape and Bay City was struggling with getting the budget to repair or replace them, and citizens didn't want to raise taxes to pay for it.  Privatizing it and imposing a toll must have been the only realistic thing they could do without having to demolish one of them to make funding available to repair the other, or shut both down until fixing them was in the budget.

[Flint1979]

I was just in Bay City today thinking of how old and run down it is. It's just a typical city on the Great Lakes and has very old buildings. There really isn't any reason to toll these bridges. People in Bay City aren't going to be happy having to pay extra money to cross the bridge. This is a city I know very well and trust me this is not going to go over well at all.

I remember hearing that the bridges are both in very poor shape and Bay City was struggling with getting the budget to repair or replace them, and citizens didn't want to raise taxes to pay for it.  Privatizing it and imposing a toll must have been the only realistic thing they could do without having to demolish one of them to make funding available to repair the other, or shut both down until fixing them was in the budget.

I drove over the Independence Bridge and thought it was fine but have no idea what condition the bridge is actually in. Then returning over the river I came across the Lafayette Bridge which was being raised for a boat when I went through and had to wait 10 minutes for the bridge to go back down. The Lafayette and Vets Bridge's would be the only free ones and would see most of the traffic I'm sure. If you toll these bridges people are going to find a way around it even if it's inconvenient. Bay City residents already pay through the roof for basic services.

[rhen_var]

I was just in Bay City today thinking of how old and run down it is. It's just a typical city on the Great Lakes and has very old buildings. There really isn't any reason to toll these bridges. People in Bay City aren't going to be happy having to pay extra money to cross the bridge. This is a city I know very well and trust me this is not going to go over well at all.

I remember hearing that the bridges are both in very poor shape and Bay City was struggling with getting the budget to repair or replace them, and citizens didn't want to raise taxes to pay for it.  Privatizing it and imposing a toll must have been the only realistic thing they could do without having to demolish one of them to make funding available to repair the other, or shut both down until fixing them was in the budget.

I drove over the Independence Bridge and thought it was fine but have no idea what condition the bridge is actually in. Then returning over the river I came across the Lafayette Bridge which was being raised for a boat when I went through and had to wait 10 minutes for the bridge to go back down. The Lafayette and Vets Bridge's would be the only free ones and would see most of the traffic I'm sure. If you toll these bridges people are going to find a way around it even if it's inconvenient. Bay City residents already pay through the roof for basic services.

I'm not disagreeing with you that tolling the bridges in the first place, and only tolling half of them, is a silly idea - I'm just pointing out the conditions that lead up to this.  According to the article below from 2019, the bridges were in such bad condition that they would have to close them to traffic within 2 years if they were not repaired.  Seeing as they're still open now, that estimate must have been a bit extreme, but the point still stands that those bridges were getting to the point of being unsafe.  The other two alternatives would have been to raise taxes to repair them, demolish one and repair the other, or close both bridges until they had enough money to repair them, which might have taken years.
https://www.secondwavemedia.com/baycity/features/bay-city-bridges.aspx

[triplemultiplex]

The new tolling system will be designed to be compatible with as many other toll systems as possible, including EZ-Pass and the new MacPass stickers.

After all that noise upthread about the Mac and iPass, surprised to hear crickets about this tidbit.

[vdeane]

The new tolling system will be designed to be compatible with as many other toll systems as possible, including EZ-Pass and the new MacPass stickers.

After all that noise upthread about the Mac and iPass, surprised to hear crickets about this tidbit.

Given the $15/month transponder fee for these bridges, I would think it would make sense for most people to use either MacPass or E-ZPass depending on their travel patterns.

[Ryctor2018]

Anyone have details of the Traverse City bypass that was never built?

As far I am aware of, I have only seen the bypass as an idea in regards to increasing traffic.

It was opposed about 20 years ago because of environmental reasons, cost, sprawl, traffic and NIMBYism. Airport Road & 3 Mile Road serve as a defacto bypass of the downtown area.

[Terry Shea]

The new tolling system will be designed to be compatible with as many other toll systems as possible, including EZ-Pass and the new MacPass stickers.

After all that noise upthread about the Mac and iPass, surprised to hear crickets about this tidbit.

The whole idea is insane!  Charge a toll and then make you wait to cross.  I think they're going to throw some politicians to the bottom of the Saginaw River.

[ftballfan]

Anyone have details of the Traverse City bypass that was never built?

As far I am aware of, I have only seen the bypass as an idea in regards to increasing traffic.

It was opposed about 20 years ago because of environmental reasons, cost, sprawl, traffic and NIMBYism. Airport Road & 3 Mile Road serve as a defacto bypass of the downtown area.

Most of that route is four lanes (with the exception of South Airport between Garfield and Three Mile).

Traverse City already has two de facto bypasses using local roads, with the other being Beitner to Keystone to Hammond to Four Mile (Hammond used to end just shy of Keystone until a few years ago)