News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

Prairie Parkway.

Started by rmsandw, April 04, 2009, 10:51:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Brandon

^^ That is temporary.  We have two huge intermodal yards near the west end of what will be the Illiana and the south end of the PP.  To not build them will be a major mistake, but I highly doubt a local New York paper even understands the dynamics of Chicago suburbs.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg


3467

It was written in downtown Chicago by WTTW probably and they probably dont understand Chicagos exurbs (or downstate) anymore than a New Yorker.
That said the hosuing crisis especially in exurbs and former hot markest shows no signs of abating so it could be a lomg time before the boom returns. With the sole exception of the 88 extension ISTHA has been very conservative in its construction. I am sure they will get built and I am sure it will be by ISTHA. I just think they will be in the next 15 year plan

on_wisconsin

Is there a map of this proposed highway (as well as the Fox River one too) out there somewhere?
"Speed does not kill, suddenly becoming stationary... that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

3467

http://www.dot.state.il.us/projects.html

Its under District 3 here and the Tollway has their plan on its website

Rick Powell


Brandon

I hope it's balanced instead of giving all the time to the anti-Parkway minority.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

rawmustard

The FHWA reversed its approval for the Prairie Parkway as part of an agreement ending litigation. Improvements to existing roads and bridges will be made, including a widening of Route 47 that was to be made under the original project. (I can imagine Brandon fuming right now. :D)

Brandon

Quote from: rawmustard on August 23, 2012, 03:57:55 PM
The FHWA reversed its approval for the Prairie Parkway as part of an agreement ending litigation. Improvements to existing roads and bridges will be made, including a widening of Route 47 that was to be made under the original project. (I can imagine Brandon fuming right now. :D)

It is, IMHO, very short-sighted.  IL-47 widening is needed, but it goes right through the middle of Yorkville.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

3467

Highway 34 is being widened out to Sandwich already so there was nothing gained here.
The IL 53 EIS was dropped by the Feds too and the ISTHA will have to do a new one . If IDOT keeps the land ISTHA can revive it but it will have to statr from scratch.
If there is any balking in Indiana over the Illiana though i could both off the table for a long long time.Will county does have authorization of its own toll operation so that may be the last hopr of the Illiana
There should be something in the federal regsiter at some point that may tell us more

Rick Powell

Quote from: 3467 on August 23, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
The IL 53 EIS was dropped by the Feds too and the ISTHA will have to do a new one . If IDOT keeps the land ISTHA can revive it but it will have to statr from scratch.

The ISTHA does not need to do an EIS if they do not utilize any federal funding for a project.  They do have an internal environmental process for project development, and they do need to get all the federal and state permits relating to wetlands, river crossings, impacts to federally listed species, etc. regardless.  ISTHA usually does not initiate enviro studies on its own on this scale, though.  Most of its big "new construction" projects were taken through the enviro process by IDOT, whpch has dozens of in-house specialists and consultants on hand who do this kind of work.  That's why IL 355 south extension and now Elgin OHare West Bypass were led by IDOT, and then handed over to ISTHA.  The Chicago-St. Louis high speed rail project has also benefitted from many of the highway planning and land acquisition experts at IDOT who were pressed into service to assist the rail effort.


Beltway

Quote from: Rick Powell on August 23, 2012, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: 3467 on August 23, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
The IL 53 EIS was dropped by the Feds too and the ISTHA will have to do a new one . If IDOT keeps the land ISTHA can revive it but it will have to statr from scratch.

The ISTHA does not need to do an EIS if they do not utilize any federal funding for a project.

That certainly looks bad to basically do an end-run around the NEPA EIS process after having it be rejected on a project.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

3467

The land for Illinois 53 was always kept from development. I guess we will know if there is really no future for the PP if the corridor protection is dropped?

3467

895-I bet they have to redo it because federal funds were used in land aquistion. I have the EIS for 355 and like Rick Powell said IDOT did it for the Toll Authority. Iit was because the land was aquired by IDOT over many years. ISTHA got the wetlands permits and elevated the road more to avoid hitting any endnagered Hinds Emerald Dragonflies.

Rick Powell

Quote from: 3467 on August 23, 2012, 10:44:31 PM
The land for Illinois 53 was always kept from development. I guess we will know if there is really no future for the PP if the corridor protection is dropped?

Under IL law every corridor protection needs to be reviewed every 10 years under a sunset provision.  Prairie Parkway's comes up in 2017.  The Gateway Corridor around the IL side of St. Louis will become due sometime in the next few years.  IL 336 from Peoria to Macomb is in the process of initiating a corridor protection.  There are a few others around the state, nothing as major as these three.   

Revive 755

Quote from: Beltway on August 23, 2012, 10:38:37 PM
That certainly looks bad to basically do an end-run around the NEPA EIS process after having it be rejected on a project.

It didn't sound like the EIS was rejected, more of IDOT and the feds lost interest in building the facility and didn't want to fight for it in the courts.

IMHO, this is just a repeat of not building the Fox Valley Corridor.  IL 47 will get more development along it and more stoplights - and maybe some new freeway or tollway will be under consideration near IL 23 (at least if Chicagoland grows that far west and the next north-south corridor considered after the Prairie Parkway falls through, there's I-39 already in place to the west).  If anything, the funds should be redirected to more immediate improvements to IL 47, but the corridor left preserved until either IDOT or ISHTA redevelops interest in the facility.

Rick Powell

Quote from: Beltway on August 23, 2012, 10:38:37 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on August 23, 2012, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: 3467 on August 23, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
The IL 53 EIS was dropped by the Feds too and the ISTHA will have to do a new one . If IDOT keeps the land ISTHA can revive it but it will have to statr from scratch.

The ISTHA does not need to do an EIS if they do not utilize any federal funding for a project.

That certainly looks bad to basically do an end-run around the NEPA EIS process after having it be rejected on a project.

That is not how IL 53 went down.  IDOT did a Draft EIS and did not take it to the next step, and it became an outdated study.  The whole NEPA proccess is predicated on the use of federal funds, and each responsible federal agency has its own set of rules on what is needed in the EIS.  Different requirements for rail, highway, hydroelectric dam or what have you.  If a project is privately or state funded, and it is of the scope of an IL 53 extension, it's not like they will be able to just put together a quick set of blueprints and set the dozers free.  The range of permits and doing studies to see what's there and how to mitigate it would be of a similar scale of doing an EIS, just without the particularly prescribed federal process for an EIS for whatever mode or improvement.  California has done lots of large scale projects with state-only $ and their environmental process is very similar to a federal EIS. 

Rick Powell

Quote from: 3467 on August 23, 2012, 11:00:18 PM
895-I bet they have to redo it because federal funds were used in land aquistion. I have the EIS for 355 and like Rick Powell said IDOT did it for the Toll Authority. Iit was because the land was aquired by IDOT over many years. ISTHA got the wetlands permits and elevated the road more to avoid hitting any endnagered Hinds Emerald Dragonflies.

I am fairly sure the IL 53 corridor was bought with state only funds...the feds are very reluctant to expend $ on land acquisition before a Record of Decision on a Final EIS...it has to be very special circumstances.

3467

With the corridor preserved the tollway can build it when it makes financial sense to them. I suspect the ROD was only pulled because of the litigation. US 20 has been dormant even longer and the ROD has not been pulled though the EIS would have to be updated if the project were revived unless it is revived by the tollway by some miracle.I think IL 29 is also dormant

Rick Powell

I went to this public hearing tonight on the 10-year review of the Prairie Parkway corridor protection. When the corridor protection was first presented to the public in 2001, there was a line out the door of the meeting place and I think 900 people showed up. Tonight, I came about an hour into the meeting and I was the sixth person through the door. No idea what IDOTs intention is with the corridor protection, but they are accepting public comments until November 17. They stressed that there is nothing remotely in the works for advancing the project at this time, this is strictly about whether they should continue to protect the corridor. IDOT has not bought any property in it for about 10 years.

http://www.idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/IDOT-Projects/District-3/Prarie-Parkway-Corridor/files/Prairie%20Parkway%20Corridor%20Public%20Hearing%20Notice%202017.pdf

johndoe780

Does IDOT own most of the ROW?

Rick Powell

#45
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
Does IDOT own most of the ROW?

They bought some of it around where the I-80 and US 34 interchanges would be, and where it would cross the Fox River, but most of it is still owned by the private landowners up and down the corridor. FWIW, the land around US 34 was probably the property most under threat of development at the time. IDOT did add lanes to US 34 using some of the Prairie Parkway funding, and the median widens out where the interchange would go, but they didn't do anything obvious like put in ramp stubs.

Henry

Well, what's the use of continuing to own land for a corridor that may never be built?
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Rick Powell

Quote from: Henry on November 03, 2017, 10:05:23 AM
Well, what's the use of continuing to own land for a corridor that may never be built?

That's a good question. IDOT does make some money from renting out land for farming, and a few houses that have renters on the property it owns. At one time, Kendall County, IL was the fastest-growing county in the US. Kane and Kendall remain two of the few counties in IL that have any growth at all, but it's nothing like it was 10-15 years ago.

froggie

Kind of a side question here, but how much are the state's budget (and long-term obligation) problems affecting both IDOT and the potential growth of the region?

Rick Powell

Quote from: froggie on November 03, 2017, 10:17:11 AM
Kind of a side question here, but how much are the state's budget (and long-term obligation) problems affecting both IDOT and the potential growth of the region?

It's really a mixed bag.
1. Downtown Chicago is booming. I read somewhere that there are a near-record number of construction cranes reaching in the air for high-rise construction in the Loop and the north side. My son-in-law is a union carpenter and these type of projects are his bread and butter.
2. Last election, voters approved a "transportation lockbox" amendment by a 4 to 1 margin that kept gas taxes from being diverted. However, the most recent budget (the first one passed in 2+ years) took some transit money from the general fund and it is now coming out of transportation, and the result was a net loss to the counties of MFT funds, at least for this year.
3. Many people are clamoring for a state capital construction bill, but there is unprecedented political gridlock in the state. Some trial balloons have been floated about increasing the gas tax to pay for it, but nothing has stuck.
4. There was a very unpopular soda tax instituted in Cook County, and the county board had to walk it back by a 15-to-1 vote. The shortage of funding for general obligations, as well as city, county and pension funding, is in diametric opposition to a "taxed enough already" public sentiment that now extends across political lines.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.