Traffic signal

[jakeroot]

Didn't get a chance to see how this one works, but this seems to be an answer to preventing crashes when the cross street makes a U-turn on a green left arrow.

https://goo.gl/maps/bv55twxR3BaNSeJw9

That's an option, to prevent RTOR specifically when U-turns are occurring. But that may not always be necessary. Something that allows traffic to move but intuitively tells traffic to watch for U-turns at the same time seems to be the ideal approach. Regular RTOR isn't great because traffic doesn't really know where to look, but another specific signal could be designed to do this. Like a flashing right yellow arrow with a supplemental "yield to U-turns on FYA" sign.

It seems that Tuscon has the best answer for this.  Someone had posted on it a while ago (but I forget if it was here or in Mtn West forum).  Tucson has a 5 aspect RYG-YA-FYA signal.  Only when the corresponding left has green arrow - the right arrow displays a FYA as a warning to watch for u-turns.  When cross traffic has green, the right turn signal displays a normal red orb.

That's exactly what I had in mind, although according to this post in the "unique" thread by JKRhodes, any examples of signage accompanying those signals have long since bit the dust. Which is too bad, since I don't know how intuitive the flashing yellow right arrow would be during the overlapping protected left turn without any sort of signage to indicate the purpose of the FYA.

[jakeroot]

Check out this four section PPLT in Virginia. Green ball in the yellow ball position.

Took me a minute to figure this out, although it's still odd. Since the side-street has no left turn onto the main road, there is no reason to display a yellow or red signal. I'm guessing the signal on top is a red orb for when power goes out.

I don't know the rule in the US, but in Canada, green and yellow orbs can be "moved up" in the stack, but they cannot be switched with one another. For example, this signal in Vancouver (video by me) with only two lenses: constant green orb on top, bimodal green/yellow arrow on the bottom. Bit strange, but definitely permitted as there is no yellow or red orbs; I think it would be OK in the US as well (apart from the flashing green arrow).

https://youtu.be/6-K46IWuHoQ

[Amtrakprod]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

[SignBridge]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

Hmmm.........Not sure but I think in the first photo that pole mounted head with the green arrow above the circular green is probably not Manual compliant. Looks like they used the horizontal mount placement in the head and just turned the arrow lens. Interesting backplates. I don't know if they are reqd. to be any specific shape.

[STLmapboy]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

Everything about that is excessive--the backplates, the aluminum poles, the streetlights. I've seen it before, but it never fails to shock.

[jakeroot]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

Hmmm.........Not sure but I think in the first photo that pole mounted head with the green arrow above the circular green is probably not Manual compliant. Looks like they used the horizontal mount placement in the head and just turned the arrow lens.

The exact opposite problem that I would expect in areas where vertical signals are the norm but where a horizontal signal has to be used for whatever reason: simply transposing the signal up and then over. Here, we have something even rarer: an area where horizontal signals are the norm, and the signal was simply transposed over and then down.

This is exactly why I don't like horizontal signal requirements. It really should be as simply as transposing the standard vertical signal up and over. Otherwise, stuff like this happens. Not to mention confusion around the normal layout of horizontal signals. Living in area without them, I only know how they are laid out thanks to Google Street View.

[Amtrakprod]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

Hmmm.........Not sure but I think in the first photo that pole mounted head with the green arrow above the circular green is probably not Manual compliant. Looks like they used the horizontal mount placement in the head and just turned the arrow lens.

The exact opposite problem that I would expect in areas where vertical signals are the norm but where a horizontal signal has to be used for whatever reason: simply transposing the signal up and then over. Here, we have something even rarer: an area where horizontal signals are the norm, and the signal was simply transposed over and then down.

This is exactly why I don't like horizontal signal requirements. It really should be as simply as transposing the standard vertical signal up and over. Otherwise, stuff like this happens. Not to mention confusion around the normal layout of horizontal signals. Living in area without them, I only know how they are laid out thanks to Google Street View.

And the weird thing is I know someone who knows the traffic engineer who designed that project.


iPhone

[HTM Duke]

Check out this four section PPLT in Virginia. Green ball in the yellow ball position.

Took me a minute to figure this out, although it's still odd. Since the side-street has no left turn onto the main road, there is no reason to display a yellow or red signal. I'm guessing the signal on top is a red orb for when power goes out.

I don't know the rule in the US, but in Canada, green and yellow orbs can be "moved up" in the stack, but they cannot be switched with one another. For example, this signal in Vancouver (video by me) with only two lenses: constant green orb on top, bimodal green/yellow arrow on the bottom. Bit strange, but definitely permitted as there is no yellow or red orbs; I think it would be OK in the US as well (apart from the flashing green arrow).

I grew up near the Annandale, VA area, so I know this intersection very well.  The opmost signal heads on both signals are yellow balls, and activate only when the signals enter flash mode, which was a very rare occurrence.

[mrsman]

Check out this four section PPLT in Virginia. Green ball in the yellow ball position.

Took me a minute to figure this out, although it's still odd. Since the side-street has no left turn onto the main road, there is no reason to display a yellow or red signal. I'm guessing the signal on top is a red orb for when power goes out.

I grew up near the Annandale, VA area, so I know this intersection very well.  The opmost signal heads on both signals are yellow balls, and activate only when the signals enter flash mode, which was a very rare occurrence.

This all makes sense, but I think the unique aspects of this can be quite confusing.  It may be more worthwhile to have a doghouse on the left and a regular RYG on the right.  The red signal may never light, and the yellow only during flash mode, but at least the meaning makes consistent sense.

[jeffandnicole]

Check out this four section PPLT in Virginia. Green ball in the yellow ball position.

Took me a minute to figure this out, although it's still odd. Since the side-street has no left turn onto the main road, there is no reason to display a yellow or red signal. I'm guessing the signal on top is a red orb for when power goes out.

I grew up near the Annandale, VA area, so I know this intersection very well.  The opmost signal heads on both signals are yellow balls, and activate only when the signals enter flash mode, which was a very rare occurrence.

This all makes sense, but I think the unique aspects of this can be quite confusing.  It may be more worthwhile to have a doghouse on the left and a regular RYG on the right.  The red signal may never light, and the yellow only during flash mode, but at least the meaning makes consistent sense.

Just wondering...are the 2 lanes going into this intersection from Maple needed?  It appears the road is 1 lane wide, and the left lane doesn't allow right turns on red.  If anything, it's a bit confusing for those not in the know.  There's no signage indicating there's 2 lanes, and no road markings for the right lane to turn right.  A single white solid line without any other indicators, and with it being the only lane with right turn markings, almost makes it appears it's a shoulder line at the intersection. 

As for the traffic light - no reason a conventional signal couldn't be used here as mrsman indicates. But there's an issue with the lack of a pedestrian crossing as well.

All told, the intersection itself is fine, but the traffic light system is a total mess.

[fwydriver405]

Either this doghouse signal in Danvers, MA is running in Dallas Phasing (LEFT TURN SIGNAL & YIELD ON GREEN signs), or simply just running in protected only mode... I'll have to check it out on my next Boston run this weekend. Based on some GSV views it does also run in protected/permissive mode as well...

Nov 2017
Sep 2018
Video showing all red to protected only

[JoePCool14]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

I remember seeing those signals in Houston several years ago. Even as a 12 year old when my family visited there I thought they looked incredibly ugly. No thanks.

[STLmapboy]

Oh my goodness: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7537374,-95.4577105,3a,26.2y,13.86h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szTJvdn1OvNS7sNO_zfOZjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7539393,-95.4575452,3a,21.5y,345.38h,95.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_cSsXSz_bKxD3Bj1pSfkXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2

I remember seeing those signals in Houston several years ago. Even as a 12 year old when my family visited there I thought they looked incredibly ugly. No thanks.

Houston as a whole can be somewhat insistent, going from this to this to this to this (updated twice since 2007) to even this. Here's some vertical action as well.

Second example has an interesting bike signal, btw.

[jakeroot]

(updated twice since 2007)

That example is really odd. I didn't realize, at any point in the last twenty years, that new signals were still being installed with only one signal head per direction. Very odd!! No wonder it was eventually replaced.

As a side-note: where the in the hell are you finding all these interesting things? I thought I spent a lot of time on GSV, but holy shit!

[HTM Duke]

Just wondering...are the 2 lanes going into this intersection from Maple needed?

For the most part, no.  There are times when there are ~5-7 cars in the rightmost turn lane that there was little to none potential time saved from avoiding the leftmost lane's no turn on red.  (Also of note, the green time on northbound Annandale Rd and Maple Pl is split almost evenly.)  The only reason I believe its still there is because VDOT hopes drivers will use the left lane so they don't try and immediately move over to make an immediate left at Markham St (next signal north).  This of course doesn't happen.

As for the traffic light - no reason a conventional signal couldn't be used here as mrsman indicates. But there's an issue with the lack of a pedestrian crossing as well.

When these signals are finally replaced, I suspect it'll be similar to those set up at southbound Commerce St's left exit to I-495 north.  A ped crossing of Annandale Rd would definitely necessitate the need for standard signals instead though, and a PPLT on northbound Annandale Rd would not be unwelcome, given that pedestrians crossing Maple Pl is not very common at all.

[STLmapboy]

(updated twice since 2007)

That example is really odd. I didn't realize, at any point in the last twenty years, that new signals were still being installed with only one signal head per direction. Very odd!! No wonder it was eventually replaced.

As a side-note: where the in the hell are you finding all these interesting things? I thought I spent a lot of time on GSV, but holy shit!

I have some photos from trips I've taken, and pull some examples from there. It's also a matter of knowing where to look; if the neighborhood looks older or seems like there's been a lot of depopulation, there may be some interesting signals

[STLmapboy]

Ok, check this out. In Pen Argyl.

[UnumProvident101]

I'm from Chattanooga, TN but my home town has been using flashing left arrow traffic lights for more than two years
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0459906,-85.3126286,3a,81.6y,114.38h,92.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLPq-R9qFxlgsEUWkz9cVag!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1382829,-85.2477746,3a,75y,168.9h,90.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sauV5F405PZWPfuibeygzag!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[jeffandnicole]

Ok, check this out. In Pen Argyl.

Again, nothing good comes from discussing work st a bar at 1am.

[Revive 755]

Ok, check this out. In Pen Argyl.

Why isn't traffic allowed to go straight there?

[jeffandnicole]

Ok, check this out. In Pen Argyl.

Why isn't traffic allowed to go straight there?

It is. It's just saying traffic can turn right without stopping.

PA is know for their "STOP" "EXCEPT RIGHT TURNS" signage. This i guess is their signalized version of it.

[jakeroot]

Ok, check this out. In Pen Argyl.

Why isn't traffic allowed to go straight there?

It is. It's just saying traffic can turn right without stopping.

PA is know for their "STOP" "EXCEPT RIGHT TURNS" signage. This i guess is their signalized version of it.

But there is a sign clearly stating "ALL TRAFFIC MUST TURN RIGHT".

[Amtrakprod]

Uhhhhhhh wow. Never thought I'd see an intersection with these two things: https://www.google.com/maps/@21.301627,-157.8488057,3a,23.2y,290.54h,93.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOxyH1NHRJ5Xb6vd0oY8gZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@21.3015221,-157.8489198,3a,16.4y,127.69h,95.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBzXxVTQu3-s5mC2MAUjnqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e3

[jakeroot]

Uhhhhhhh wow. Never thought I'd see an intersection with these two things: https://www.google.com/maps/@21.301627,-157.8488057,3a,23.2y,290.54h,93.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOxyH1NHRJ5Xb6vd0oY8gZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@21.3015221,-157.8489198,3a,16.4y,127.69h,95.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBzXxVTQu3-s5mC2MAUjnqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e3

What exactly are we looking at? I see some round-door Bullseyes and a bike signal. Also some wicked short mast arms.

[CJResotko]

Here's something you don't see that often anymore for traffic lights. In Sandusky, Ohio