Anyone avoiding Arizona?

[J N Winkler]

ah okay, I did not know that is how the corridor worked.  So if the train stops in, say Ashford in Kent, do passengers get on?  You mentioned getting off would be silly, but if so, getting on would be the only reason to stop the train.

Yes, passengers do get on.

If they get on, do they get London stamps or Ashford in Kent stamps?

I am not sure, but I think they get Schengen stamps with "Ashford" as the location.  It really depends on whether the French (whose stamps go in passports) consider their checkpoint at Ashford to be a separate POE.

What about those who drive between Dover and Calais?  Do they get processed traditionally upon setting foot on the new country's soil?

I am not sure about the current position, but the last time I travelled between London and Paris via coach--which involves boarding a vehicle/passenger ferry as a foot passenger--the passport checks were actually only on the British side.  At the time (1999) there were problems with illegal immigrants destroying their documentation in order to be able to claim asylum on a "benefit of the doubt" basis, so British immigration verified that you had documents valid for re-entry to the UK as you left the UK, and then there was a passport check in the normal way on return to the UK.  There were no checks on French soil coming into France but French Customs did occasional checks on buses returning to the UK (generally by flagging them aside at a tollbooth on the A1 autoroute).

The French do have an obligation under Schengen to have a proper frontier checkpoint for traffic coming from the UK by coach.  They can't carry on as they did in 1999 and still fulfil that obligation, so that may be the explanation for the checks at Calais which Simon describes (on the basis of, I would presume, more recent experience than mine).

The boarding/disembarkation restrictions occur elsewhere, where there aren't borders and so on - for instance to try and stop commuters boarding intercity trains to do a London-Watford commute (or to deal with competition clauses built into franchises - Virgin have to have a monopoly on Wolverhampton-London services, so Wrexham & Shrewsbury trains are pick up northbound/drop off southbound only so as to not impinge)

My understanding is that the privatized railways don't do free upgrades, but they do allow free downgrades.  For instance, if you buy a ticket valid for the Gatwick Express between Gatwick and London Victoria, and then are foolish enough to board a Southern Trains stopping service, no-one will prevent you.  On the other hand, you can't board the Heathrow Express between Paddington and Heathrow on just, say, a Tube travelcard.

I haven't asked any non UK passport holders what the stamps say - there's no stamping between the UK/Ireland and Schengen - I've asked before for a stamp and got an odd look.

You wouldn't get a Schengen stamp because you are an EU citizen.  As a non-EU citizen, however, I have to be stamped every time I enter and exit the Schengen zone.  The main elements of a Schengen stamp are distinguishing sign of country operating the port (within the EU thirteen stars), name of port, date of clearance, whether it is an arrival or departure, mode of travel (air, boat, rail, car), and an identifying code which is particular (I am not sure which) to the immigration officer, the stamp, the port, or the clearance desk.

Samples of Schengen stamps can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_stamp#Schengen_zone

As an aside, the stamps used by UK immigration are similar to the extent that they have the name of the port and date of arrival (the UK does not have formal exit checks although passports are occasionally checked on exit), as well as an identifying code which is personal to the immigration officer.  There is a separate standard stamp which is used for six-month tourist leave to enter.  If leave to enter is granted for a length of time other than the standard six months (typically upon interview by an immigration officer), a different standard stamp is used and a date of expiry is written in ink.  People who obtain leave to enter through a visa process (rather than just showing up at the port of entry) have different notations put in their passports and also have to get biometric identification.  The latter involves booking an appointment for fingerprinting, etc. at a special Home Office enquiry center.  (This process nearly went pear-shaped for a friend of mine who does not have sufficient ridge detail on her fingertips to take usable fingerprints.  The Home Office refused to reassure her that this would not be used as a basis for denying her visa.  When her ID card was issued, the name of her hometown in Japan was misspelled.  As she put it, "Britain is a crap.")

The US did not used to stamp US citizens on re-entry to the US, but now it does.

[J N Winkler]

overthinking it much, England and France?

Maggie negotiated it . . .

[english si]

There were no checks on French soil coming into France but French Customs did occasional checks on buses returning to the UK (generally by flagging them aside at a tollbooth on the A1 autoroute).

the A1? that's quite a way from Calais! More likely would be the A26, I would have thought. It's worth pointing out that just because you weren't checked doesn't mean that there are no checks. France hasn't cared about those coming from the UK and Ireland by sea for years, keeping a skeleton staff in passport control there. Of course, I've tended to cross the channel by car, not coach (did Portsmouth-St Malo and Roscoff-Plymouth by coach as part of a school trip in 1998 - as a large group of 12 year olds, the teachers handled it: "here's 50 kids passports" "Oh, OK, welcome - come aboard kids" kind of thing). I seem to recall going through passport control in France, and it being the case that you wave the right number of passports at the man, if he's there (St Malo's passport control have never staffed the Portsmouth-St Malo ferry arriving at 7am French time in the many times I went there from the early 90s to early 00s), and get waved on.

My understanding is that the privatized railways don't do free upgrades, but they do allow free downgrades.  For instance, if you buy a ticket valid for the Gatwick Express between Gatwick and London Victoria, and then are foolish enough to board a Southern Trains stopping service, no-one will prevent you.  On the other hand, you can't board the Heathrow Express between Paddington and Heathrow on just, say, a Tube travelcard.

Actually I don't think that's true - however because Gatwick Express is a sub-brand of Southern, they let you, as they get the money (and the premium) anyway - it wouldn't work on a First Capital Connect train if you had a Gatwick Express Only ticket due to the company getting no money from the ticket - an any permitted ticket (which costs more) would be allowed on any train as the money is spread out via some sort of algorithm, but is pretty pointless buying one during the day, due to all companies running frequent services, so you buy the most practical for you and wait, at most, 15 minutes. I do think it's a bit excessive to have 4 ticket prices (ignoring peak/off-peak, cheap day returns, saver returns and so on) for Gatwick to London Terminals (Southern only, FCC only, Gatwick Express only, any permitted). I think they have changed it though with the merging of the Gatwick Express and Southern franchises, but I'm not sure.

A Birmingham Stations to London Terminals tickets have a via Banbury cheaper option (which allows you to change at Reading as well as use Chiltern), and with that you cannot go on Virgin via Milton Keynes, but an any permitted costs more and is allowed on either route, but Chiltern wouldn't allow any Virgin special offer tickets, meant only for Virgin (I don't think they offer that though). Wrexham and Shropshire might have the restrictions on Wolverhampton because of not getting money from the tickets, rather than something DfT mandated (and I'd also strongly argue that, despite taking quite a bit longer, W&S is a premium service over Virgin!).

Also anything involving the Heathrow tunnel is a special case as the tunnel isn't part of the National Rail, or London Underground networks, hence the premium.

You wouldn't get a Schengen stamp because you are an EU citizen.

I know, I've tried pleading, but they won't give me one! Likewise UK passport control. All I wanted to do was add to my passport stamp collection

To drag it back more on the topic of the original drift - the wikipedia page linked to above shows "Paris" and "Channel Tunnel" UK stamps, and a "Londres" Schengen stamp.

[J N Winkler]

the A1? that's quite a way from Calais! More likely would be the A26, I would have thought.

Yes, the A1, not the A26, and yes, I would expect it to be on the A26 too except that proximity to Calais does not seem to be a consideration for the douaniers who run these checks--I think they look for scheduled services which are nonstop between Paris and the ferry.

It's worth pointing out that just because you weren't checked doesn't mean that there are no checks. France hasn't cared about those coming from the UK and Ireland by sea for years, keeping a skeleton staff in passport control there. Of course, I've tended to cross the channel by car, not coach (did Portsmouth-St Malo and Roscoff-Plymouth by coach as part of a school trip in 1998 - as a large group of 12 year olds, the teachers handled it: "here's 50 kids passports" "Oh, OK, welcome - come aboard kids" kind of thing). I seem to recall going through passport control in France, and it being the case that you wave the right number of passports at the man, if he's there (St Malo's passport control have never staffed the Portsmouth-St Malo ferry arriving at 7am French time in the many times I went there from the early 90s to early 00s), and get waved on.

I didn't claim there were no checks at all, but the fact that I was able to get from London to Paris without once having to show my passport to a French immigration officer in itself indicates that, at that time, the French were not operating an inspection regime for cross-Channel movements which gave them the opportunity to inspect and affix Schengen entry stamps to the passports of all non-EU citizens entering France.  It is my understanding that the Schengen treaty now requires France to impose this regime of control for all movements between France and other countries outside the Schengen zone, so I would not now expect to be able to make a coach trip between London and Paris without having my passport stamped by the French at some point.

To drag it back more on the topic of the original drift - the wikipedia page linked to above shows "Paris" and "Channel Tunnel" UK stamps, and a "Londres" Schengen stamp.

I went to Paris last July (Eurostar in both directions).  The UK entry stamp for the return journey says just "PARIS."  The French entry stamp says "LFT - LONDRES" while the French exit stamp says "LFT - PARIS NORD."  I am not sure what the "LFT" stands for.

[agentsteel53]

Maggie negotiated it . . .

taking time out of her busy "shoot Mr. Burns" schedule, apparently.

perfectly good taxpayer money being used for that negotiation.  Hours upon hours that the government could've spent solving actual problems.

[mgk920]

Customs formalities on international airline flights from Canada to the USA are handled in much the same way as on the Eurostars - you clear USA customs at the departing airport in Canada and the flights are then treated as 'domestic' flights within the USA - able to land without further formalities at ANY commercial airport in the USA.  Also, if the flight is delayed and you want to head back to the rest of the terminal or back into town you have to re-clear Canadian customs.  Flights to Canada clear Canadian customs in Canada.  This makes economic sense in that there are far fewer airports in Canada than there are in the USA where such flights call and the fewer points of entry in Canada mean that many fewer customs guys needed by the USA.

Mike

[J N Winkler]

perfectly good taxpayer money being used for that negotiation.  Hours upon hours that the government could've spent solving actual problems.

It's a question of joint costs.  It is very easy to reach a decision quickly if both sides supply a clear political mandate, and François Mitterrand would have agreed readily to an equal-area agreement (if it was not in fact already suggested by his side) just to avoid being outflanked by the Gaullist right.  My guess is that the negotiations were dominated largely by the essentially technical process of calculating how much surface land was required to build and operate the tunnel safely.

[english si]

Which crossing proposal to build would have been a lot of the negotiations, as would who will built it - locals or export some navvies in, as well as which company.

[agentsteel53]

to avoid being outflanked by the Gaullist right. 

further oh-so-great uses of taxpayer dollars.

"sacre bleu, we gave England thirteen square inches more land than they gave us!"

hooray for extremist nationalism.