Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

Two lane highway with NO local access (i.e. driveways)
Examples include:
US 33 in couple of place between Athens and Ravenswood
Oh 334 above Springfield
Oh 37 north of Lancaster
Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

[74/171FAN]

I honestly have been thinking about if the temporary I-70 section of OH 158 may be incorporated into this potential route.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I honestly have been thinking about if the temporary I-70 section of OH 158 may be incorporated into this potential route.

Yes, that 2 mile section of Oh 158 (old Temp I-70) would qualify as a "Super Two."
(and there are other examples around Ohio that I haven't mentioned (or forgotten) that would qualify as well)

[TempoNick]

Certain parts of US 33 south of Athens look like this as well. This is Ohio 158:

[TempoNick]

My fantasy freeways connecting Columbus to the outside world:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V_rJ3robiQt3kB1aDmLian1-0O9hU9HF/view?usp=drivesdk

[Bitmapped]

What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

Two lane highway with NO local access (i.e. driveways)
Examples include:
US 33 in couple of place between Athens and Ravenswood
Oh 334 above Springfield
Oh 37 north of Lancaster
Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Ohio's version of a Super 2 is a modern two-lane alignment with controlled access right-of-way that prevents adjoining property owners from directly accessing the road. Unlike what other states consider to be Super 2, in Ohio, at-grade intersections are OK.

Depending on the age of the road, there may be full-width paved shoulders or not. Same goes for turn lanes. Newer construction tends to have full-width shoulders and turn lanes, while older ones do not. Pretty much anything ODOT has built as a new alignment since the 1960s meets this definition. Some other examples include:
- US 22 east of Cadiz
- Number of pieces of SR 7 including the Pomeroy/Middleport bypass
- US 33 two-lane sections east of Athens
- US 50 in western Vinton County
- SR 585 near Doylestown
- SR 57 between SR 585 and I-76
- US 42 around Spring Valley
- SR 73 near Waynesboro

What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

It's been a while since I've driven that stretch, but US 33 as you get close to the West Virginia border looks like like an interstate highway, except that only the two lanes on one side of it is paved. The other side is grass. All the overpasses and interchanges are there that need to be there, if I remember correctly. I don't know how long this stretches, but it's pretty obvious that it was built with the idea of putting two more Lanes in at some point in mind.

The two-lane portions of US 33 have a number of at-grade intersections.

[carbaugh2]

I just drove 33 from Ravenswood to Lancaster on Saturday as part of my return trip from the beach. The 2-lane portions are all at-grade intersections with left and right  turn lanes from 33, and there are 2 overpasses on the Athens to Darwin section. The good news is that funding for the design of the 4-lane upgrade is in the most recent approved TRAC.

[TempoNick]

I just drove 33 from Ravenswood to Lancaster on Saturday as part of my return trip from the beach. The 2-lane portions are all at-grade intersections with left and right  turn lanes from 33, and there are 2 overpasses on the Athens to Darwin section. The good news is that funding for the design of the 4-lane upgrade is in the most recent approved TRAC.

The overpasses are what I remember. Regardless of whether there are at grade intersections or not, it seems pretty obvious to me that those sections were built with four laning in mind.

That's the way government does things anyway and this is not a criticism. When they want something to happen but there's no money for it, they'll do stuff like this with the idea that someone will finish the job at some point in the future.

[seicer]

Oh 334 above Springfield
Oh 37 north of Lancaster

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

There is also the US 50 segment east of Londonderry, too: https://goo.gl/maps/UDQBGCc5H8GeaMFP7. I'm not sure why, but a few years back they rebuilt a section of it on the unused ROW and abandoned the original section.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

[TempoNick]

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

What is Old State Road that runs parallel to us 23? Was that Route 3 at one point?

[Bitmapped]

There is also the US 50 segment east of Londonderry, too: https://goo.gl/maps/UDQBGCc5H8GeaMFP7. I'm not sure why, but a few years back they rebuilt a section of it on the unused ROW and abandoned the original section.

It's a pavement test segment, similar to what ODOT has on US 23 near Waldo. At some point, ODOT will shift traffic back to the old section and analyze the newer lanes.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

What is Old State Road that runs parallel to us 23? Was that Route 3 at one point?

I'm guessing you're speaking of this?
http://www.roadfan.com/oldstrd.html
1968 Columbus Dispatch Sunday Magazine article that got me interested in the history of 'Old State Rd'
http://www.roadfan.com/strdcohx.html

[TempoNick]

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

What is Old State Road that runs parallel to us 23? Was that Route 3 at one point?

I'm guessing you're speaking of this?
http://www.roadfan.com/oldstrd.html
1968 Columbus Dispatch Sunday Magazine article that got me interested in the history of 'Old State Rd'
http://www.roadfan.com/strdcohx.html

Thanks. I thought it interesting that they use the term shunpike in 1968. But googling, I find out that "shunpike" dates back to the 1860s. Never would have guessed.

[carbaugh2]

Linked is an announcement (I used the governor's press release to avoid paywalls) for additional funding of $90 million to assist local entities with enhancing roadways for Intel and its suppliers. Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described. Thornwood Drive is planned to become a parkway between Ohio 16 and 79 from the west side of Newark to the south side of Heath between two of the industrial parks where many Intel suppliers and subcontractors have announced plans to expand. Work is currently underway to create a better connection from the Thornwood Crossing exit to Thornwood Drive as well as remove vehicle traffic from the Showman Arch bridge that currently has a temporary bridge maintaining traffic.

https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/governor-dewine-announces-new-targeted-investments-for-silicon-heartland-transportation-improvements

[TempoNick]

Linked is an announcement (I used the governor's press release to avoid paywalls) for additional funding of $90 million to assist local entities with enhancing roadways for Intel and its suppliers. Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described. Thornwood Drive is planned to become a parkway between Ohio 16 and 79 from the west side of Newark to the south side of Heath between two of the industrial parks where many Intel suppliers and subcontractors have announced plans to expand. Work is currently underway to create a better connection from the Thornwood Crossing exit to Thornwood Drive as well as remove vehicle traffic from the Showman Arch bridge that currently has a temporary bridge maintaining traffic.

https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/governor-dewine-announces-new-targeted-investments-for-silicon-heartland-transportation-improvements

That should be able to handle Intel okay, but the anticipated spin-off businesses and the people they bring are going to be a challenge without new freeways.

[thenetwork]

What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

Examples of Ohio Super-2s are:

OH-57 Between I-76 and Rittman
OH-585 Between OH-21 and OH-94 (Doylestown)
US-42 Ashland Bypass
US-224 Between Akron and Atwater

[ibagli]

Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described.

If they decide on a new roadway to the east (which was one of the options being discussed last year), it would be a little ironic because it's only been about five years since ODOT sold off its last remaining pieces of land in that area, from the proposed freeway that was canceled for the last time in the late 90s. But I think it was going to go a lot farther east than this would, through what's now Reddington Park.

[TempoNick]

Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described.

If they decide on a new roadway to the east (which was one of the options being discussed last year), it would be a little ironic because it's only been about five years since ODOT sold off its last remaining pieces of land in that area, from the proposed freeway that was canceled for the last time in the late 90s. But I think it was going to go a lot farther east than this would, through what's now Reddington Park.

Sometimes I wonder if they have the money for it, other times I think to myself, they built US 33 around Lancaster and Nelsonville and practically all the way to West Virginia, and they built US 35, so they'll be able to find the money if they want it. If I were doing it, I'd just do one loop from US 23, all the way down to US 33 near Lancaster.

[carbaugh2]

I must have missed that Advocate article last year. That amount of money makes me think that they will build east of the current intersection. It also explains why nothing has been done to rebuild the railroad crossing at Keller Drive since the new design will likely make it a cul-de-sac south of the tracks.

With regards to the potential second bypass, the involvement of the New Albany Company tells me something will get done, likely not as grand as Delaware to Lancaster. My guess is it would mirror the 310 corridor and include the proposed extension to 33 (https://www.10tv.com/mobile/article/news/local/proposed-connector-between-us-33-i-70-some-fearful-for-unnecessary-change/530-3e0b755a-bfaa-4b90-a3b3-64bb02348424), but there is so much development on both sides of Pataskala that I am not sure how they would go around it. The temporary 70 right of way (current Ohio 158) is too far east to get back to 310 for  the extension.

[Buck87]

Here's the TRAC application for widening 161:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/trac/2023Apps/FRA-LIC%20SR%20161%2022.10-0.00.pdf

Note at this time its just for preliminary engineering and detailed design

[TempoNick]

Here's the TRAC application for widening 161:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/trac/2023Apps/FRA-LIC%20SR%20161%2022.10-0.00.pdf

Note at this time its just for preliminary engineering and detailed design

If they're going to go to six Lanes all the way to Ohio 37, that means it's six lanes all the way into Granville? That's more than I expected.

[carbaugh2]

Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.

[TempoNick]

Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.

If the powers that be want something, they'll make it happen. But using the existing segment would be a little messy, I think. Bypass to the north of Nerk?

[Bitmapped]

Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.

If the powers that be want something, they'll make it happen. But using the existing segment would be a little messy, I think. Bypass to the north of Nerk?

Why is there a need for a bypass of the existing OH 16 freeway through Newark? Where would this hypothetical additional traffic go once it gets past Newark? OH 16 goes back to two lanes as it approaches Coshocton County. OH 146, the other major route for traffic taking OH 16 out of Newark, is also two lanes.